Jrasero

Even better. I think that heavily depends on when and where you bought them. I will say there are US based Winspace dealers now so buying wheels or frames and then dealing with a RMA should be a bit easier.

chaadster

Yeah, though I did buy direct from the Winspace website and they were shipped out of China (HK).

phrantic09

I got my 303S for 950 bucks from ProBikeKit during a winter sale for what it’s worth

Caliwild

I'm guessing if you're ever going to resell the wheels, the Zipps would be easier to sell and net you more money in your pocket... Not sure if that's a consideration though.

ratell

If you are getting a second wheelset for fun why not try something different? The Zipp 303s are basically what you have with a cheaper hub. Why not get a deeper wheelset or a really light climbing wheelset?

InvertedMP 

That is why I initially wanted to go with the Hyper 45s. Staggered setup, carbon spokes etc. The 303s is very much like my current wheel but wider to be a bit more aerodynamic. I thought about doing Envy 65s too. If you couldn't tell, I don't need wheels, and I don't have a specific mission. I am a flat road rider so I am not really looking for a climbing wheel. I might end up simply not buying a new wheel set I guess, but I still kinda want to lol.

ratell

Don’t let me stop you! N+1 applies to wheels also as far as I’m concerned. I would probably do the hypers because they are different or a set of 65’s for when it’s not windy would be fun.

Hiro11

There are lots of options with good, relatively affordable wheels these days. You can't really go wrong and it comes down to your personal preferences.

I prefer a hooked bead, regular steel spokes (CX Ray of possible as I've had really good luck with them), a solid rim bed (I run tubeless on the road and hate tubeless tape), 21mm internal width and non-proprietary hubs for less than $1,500... neither of these wheels hit that mark. The midrange Roval and Bontrager are good options that get close to what I prefer and can be serviced easily in shops. Also check out custom builds from Wheelsfar (Farsports) or Light Bicycle. I bought two sets of wheels from Wheelsfar last year, both with Revo rims and DT Swiss 240 EXP hubs. ~$1,350 out the door (with shipping), shipped immediately and incredible quality.

Ryan_M

Just curious, have you looked at iCAN wheels? I have a set of the Aero 45's and have nothing bad to say about them.

Chandne

I have no real experience on the 303s yet- just a ride for a couple of miles on a Tarmac but I liked them. I can't say too much more, I now have more experience on the Firecrest version and they are pretty impressive. I have owned the ENVE 3.4 SES tube-type as well and the Zipps are more compliant and slightly "springy" if that makes sense. The road feel is pretty phenomenal. It has a lively feel and a comfy ride and I really like them a lot. I wish I could throw the 303s on this bike but I can't. I have also tried Specialized road and gravel wheels and find them to be a bit too stiff and harsh for my liking. ENVE wheels are smoother than Specialized wheels I have tried. My Zipps are just incredible though, in their road feel. I am now thinking of getting another Zipp wheelset for the gravel bike now.

Ryan_M

Not picking a fight! I'm curious about your view on hubs. Winspace seems to be doing their own thing for hubs, how is that different than DT? They don't have the same history as DT but they (as most higher end Chinese suppliers) are very keen on feed back and update their products. I've built a couple wheelsets using DT 350 and 240, but the last wheelset I bought prebuilt and came with novatec hubs but no stickers on it (ICANs). These really made me wonder, and regret, what I paid for with the DT hubs. The novatecs were 5g lighter than the DT240 (so essentially the same) and saved me a ton of money. Ive never exploded a hub, never heard of it, but not saying it can't happen. I own them, I just don't see what makes DT so desirable, other than their attractive paint embossed logos.

sean.hwy

I would go with a hooked rim unless you are racer with SAG following behind. Tires stay on better. Can insert a inner tube on century ride when out the middle of BFE etc....

georges1

I am myself seeing a potential zipp 303 or 404 purchase in the future, they are solid choice and the quality of DT hubs is second to none.

phrantic09

you can put a tube on a hookless rim if you damage the tire out in BFE (so long as you have the right tire)

msu2001la

The only thing unique about hookless rims is that they require "hookless compatible" tires and have lower PSI limits. You can run tubes in them as long as you're meeting those two criteria.

Hookless compatible tires are all tubeless ready, as far as I know. So running tubes inside them is a bit silly considering that tubeless tires are heavier and more expensive than non-tubeless and generally fit tighter so they're a bit harder to mount. Hookless rims are intended for tubeless tires, but that doesn't mean that running a tube inside is problematic or should be for "emergency use only".

The real reason to avoid hookless if you aren't intending to run tubeless is so that you can run non-tubeless tires, which are cheaper, lighter and easier to mount.

sean.hwy

I don't think the disadvantages out weigh the advantages for me.




https://www.cyclabo.com/topics/6e7hsd1z6o/

tomato coupe

I think Zipp uses their own hubs, not DT Swiss.

msu2001la

If you aren't committed to tubeless, then sticking with hooked rims makes sense. If you are committed to tubeless, you're likely already running lower pressures and hookless compatible tires, so the limitations on tire type and pressure associated with hookless rims aren't really an issue.

msu2001la

Correct for pre-built wheels.
Zipp also sells most of their rims as stand-alone products, so a wheelbuilder could build up a Zipp 303 or 404 rim with a DT hub.

Hiro11

I've now blown up four separate OEM Chinese rear hubs, (two MTB, one gravel, one road bike) two of which were made by Novatec. By "blown up", I mean the freehub mechanism has failed catastrophically. I ride a lot and I'm fairly powerful (~1,400 watt sprint) but I'm not heavy or stronger than any other racer. I'm done with screwing around with cheap rear hubs.

When you blow up a rear hub, you frequently (not always but frequently) discover that with cheap OEM wheels replacing the hub and rebuilding the rear wheel will cost about as much as just getting an entirely new wheel. Then you want your wheels to match and discover you can't buy just a rear OEM wheel. What do you do, buy an entire wheelset because your rear hub failed? Also, cheap OEM hubs generally are not easy to find replacement parts for.

In contrast, every shop in the world is familiar with DT Swiss hubs and can service them. In the rare event that anything should ever fail, a good shop will generally have both the DT Swiss bearings and freehub parts in stock. Bontrager and Roval both use rebranded DT Swiss hubs, so any Trek or Specialized store can get you rolling again quickly. The DT Swiss freehub mechanism can also be home-serviced in about ten minutes without tools.

Setting all that aside, the main thing for me is that in tens of thousands of miles of riding I've never had any issues with DT Swiss 240s or 240 EXPs (I have them on three bikes right now, one with older 240s, two with post-recall manufactured 240 EXPs). Meanwhile friends who have bought Winspace, Elite, (older) Zipp and Hunt wheels have all had hub issues. No one I know has ever had an issue with DT Swiss 370/350/240/180 hubs.

Chandne

So far, the ZIPP 303 Firecrests have been the best-riding wheels I have ever owned...they seems to have the compliance of alloy wheels (more compliant that the last gen tube-type ENVE 3.4 SES and the newer hookless ENVE 3.4 SES) and are still easy to spin up and accelerate. The wind gusts don't affect them much and not even that initial sharp nudge I usually feel. I cannot yet comment on aero. The wind makes it hard to figure that out but maybe today will work well since it is sunny and still. The 30mm Specialized tires have expanded to almost 32mm. I'm running them at 60ish and would not want them firmer. The only negative for me is that the DT240 EXPs are far louder while coasting than the older DT350s, the older DT240s, and the Chris King R45s. That is really annoying me on long descents. They are sharp-sounding and loud. I now wish I had gone with R45s or Onyx. I do avoid the inexpensive Chinese pawl hubs. I have seen many riders rebuilding wheels after the rear hub has given them issues. I just use the hubs I mentioned above.

Jrasero

One notable update is that Winspace opened a US based warehouse I believe in NJ, so that will help on shipping both ways in terms of delivers and possibly RMA. Another Wheelset to look at is Elitewheels Drive Series. Sub 1300g for the Drive 50D, carbon spokes, and hybrid ceramic bearings and with code they are $1010 shipped.

GhostRider62

I would look closely at the internal design of the Hyper hubs. I have a set of the Zipp 303 Firecrests. I had considered the Lun Hypers but went with Zipp.

Why? I understand reading somewhere online from a 5 year old that the Hyper and Farsport hubs are very similar in design and details on the internals were something I could not find back then at least. I want to see how hard service will be.. Freehub in the rain, get good at taking apart easily damaged pieces of plastic. I was not impressed with the guts at all. Same with bearings. The stock farsport bearings did not last long. Hyper bearings??? (Zipp bearings are not the best either)

After something falling off my bike and being sheared in half by Farsport carbon spokes, I would not worry about them. The tensile numbers are impressive.

Luns are $1200.

I got my 303 Firecrests for $1600 last Fall. Not an insignificant cost differential.

chaadster

There is no plastic in the Hyper hubs other than the plastic bearing seals which any hub using cartridge bearings has.

Hyper hub service is tool-less and almost too easy, as the freehub can be pulled off without much force at all, setting up a situation where pawls might get dropped and lost.

But to the matter of Hyper bearings, they’re standard, commonly available size spec, inexpensive, and quite easy to replace, so replace them as you like. Full ceramic? All steel? Fresh hybrid? What you want…

Lastly, the 303S (which is the wheelset the OP was asking about) uses a 3-pawl freehub system whereas the Hypers use 6-pawls at 60º apart. I don’t know the number of engagement teeth/points they each have, but the Hypers click more quickly when spun, so they have more rapid engagement.

ussprinceton