jar351

Several months ago I bid on and won a very early Cannondale touring bike on ebay (an '83 ST500 if I remember correctly). I'd never worked on or ridden an aluminum tourer so I was pretty psyched but sadly it wasn't to be. I got the run-around for a month or so before getting a refund with no explanation whatsoever. But I guess that's nothing new for ebay

Anyhow, since then I've kept my eyes open for a vintage Cannondale tourer and yesterday I spotted one hidden in a poorly written CL ad. The seller offered a "10-speed Cannondale" with almost no other info, but I could tell even from the grainy little photo that this bike had a triple crankset, rear rack braze-ons and what looked to me like a Huret derailleur so I knew it had to be a tourer. The price was a bit high, but after talking him down a little I figured what the hell...

(As with most of the bikes I pick up, this one probably isn't a keeper. The idea here is to get some restoration practice, learn a few new things, ride the bike around for long enough to get to know it and then sell it for enough to at least break even.)

The Good:
--Sealed cartridge hubs and bottom bracket
--Super Champion rims with almost no braking wear
--Triple water bottle cage mounts
--Long chain stays
--Room for fenders with the 27 x 1 1/4 tires
--Huret Duopar rear derailleur

The Bad:
--Rusty fork crown
--One halfway broken cable guide on the top tube
--A BB spindle that seems too short although it's stock--I've learned from another thread that this was an issue inherent to this model
--No cantilever bosses (but I knew that from the start, so I can't complain)

The Ugly:
--A few paint chips here and there
--A rusty-railed cheap-looking Specialized saddle

Priority number one for me on this bike is dealing with the rusty fork crown and I've already begun sanding away at it. I haven't yet decided what I'm going to do. Maybe get the whole fork powder coated, maybe just paint the crown myself. You folks have any strong suggestions on this or other issues?

Pictures forthcoming, I promise!

jar351

The last photo shows how the granny ring sits after backing the crank off the spindle a mm or two. Before this the teeth on that ring were just about rubbing the chainstay. The plan is to ride it around a bit like this (cautiously) to see whether the crank arm will hold or whether it'll come loose.

pastorbobnlnh 

To me, it looks as if your ST still has lots of potential. My '88 ST400 still has lots of life in it and is currently receiving a major makeover.

As far as the bottom bracket is concerned, you could probably swap the original for a slightly longer Shimano UN54 cartridge BB. At $25 or so it would be worth the expense. BTW, my ST came originally with a double, go figure.

If you plan to keep the bike, I'd PC the fork. If not, sand and repaint with a contrasting color sort of creating the illusion of a fork crown. Another interesting difference is that my ST has mounting holes half way up the fork blades for mounting a front rack. I wonder why your fork is missing these holes?


Look closely and you can see the fork blade hole.

bradtx

Andre, If it fits, it's worth keeping. Looks to me that it was either originally bought as a frameset or rebuilt. Check the Cannondale dealers in the area as they may still have some of the TT cable guides.

Bob, I think the early STs weren't equipped with the fork's mid mount, but rather had two eyelets on the fork's dropout.

Brad

shelbyfv

Can anyone tell me what years the ST bikes were made, what size tires they will take and the rear dropout spacing? I assume that since these are aluminum the spacing must remain as is....

rccardr 

That looks like a replacement fork. It's period correct and has two braze ons for front fenders, but I don't think I've eveer seen a slope crown fork on an ST of that period. Based on the quality of the fillets and the tope tube decal, that's an 86 or 87 frame (early ones had the metal riveted top tube cable guides). The serial number on the bottom of the chain stays will tell you.

Worked on a bunch of these (have three in the shop right now, an '83, an '85 and an '88) and never heard of spindle length being a problem, let alone common. Having said that, your spindle is too short- should be about 2mm wider. Probably need a 125 or 127 asymmetrical one. I'd mail you one but sent my last ones out to someone recently. I also agree with PastorBob that a sealed cartridge BB is a good investment, but unless you are wedded to that drivetrain I'd replace the whole dealio with something a little more modern like 600 Tricolor. 130OLD stuff will fit just fine- you just have to muscle it in there. Pics of what you could wind up with:


Or:

Or:

Or:

jar351

The serial number (BB06..., under the bottom bracket) indicates that the frame was made in '84. All the parts (except the stem and handlebars) are consistent with those listed in the catalog for the 1985 ST500. I really don't think the fork is a replacement since the paint matches the frame perfectly and the color and decals seem to be original. Brad is correct, the ST models didn't get mid-fork rack mounts until later.

I like the idea of painting the top of the fork a contrasting color. My choice would probably be silver, as close as I can get to the color of the top tube decal. Would a rattlecan approach be appropriate here?

Just for kicks though, I'm going to price out a PC job for the fork and a rear rack. I have an old sturdy steel rack with a little rust that's just lying around. If it's under $60, I might just go that route, again going for a color to match the silver decals.

To answer shelby's question, the ST bikes were made from 1983-91, but I'm pretty sure the later T-series was completely contiguous with the ST-series. (I got this info from vintagecannondale.com, which has all the catalogs.) At least during the mid-'80s they used 27" wheels and with 27 x 1 1/4" tires there's plenty of clearance for fenders. I suppose you could even go a little bigger on the tires but I don't know where you'd get them. The rear DO's are set to 126mm. I understand that others have stretched them to 130 on aluminum frames but for me it's not work the risk (no offense to rccardr, whose bikes are all beauties, btw). On a steel frame, yes, but not on an aluminum one. Call me crazy, that's just how I feel.

jar351

Oh and the ST400, it seems, always came with a double crankset while the 500 had a triple. Maybe the former was intended as more of a sport-tourer and the latter as a grand-tourer.

fas2c

Great project and it sounds like a keeper!

In regards to the rear DO, if rccardr stated it could work out to 130mm I'd would take his word for it based on his extensive experience with C'Dales of this time period. YMMV respectively of course.

I too would dump the older componentry and move up to a more modern group. But that again is my opinion.

badger_biker 

That may have change later because I have a1990 ST400 that has a triple and the catalog shows it that way also. My problem is the spindle is too long. It works fine for the DT index shifters on it but I tried updating with a set of 7spd RSX STI levers and was unable to get the front shifter to move the front derailleur out far enough. There is a pretty good gap between the inner ring and the chainstay too.

Out of curiosity what is the length of your spindle?

You found a nice one.

bradtx

I've a Sugino (CODA) mountain triple with a 120 mm BB on my '95 T700. There is, however, zero chainring backspacing.

Brad

cooper34

No cannondale expert here but I do own a 1985 ST 500. The fork looks stock to me and well worth saving. Regarding the BB, try a smaller chainring for extra clearance. Also the BB can be adjusted side to side a small amount - which may help. My original fork has double eyelets at the dropout but no midfork hole for a lowrider.

jar351

I haven't pulled out the BB to find out what size spindle it's got, but someone else who owns an ST500 of the same era reported in another thread that the stock BB was a 122mm. This is the same person who also had a small chainring-chainstay rub issue. Their fix was a 126mm Shimano UN-54 sealed BB. I think I might do the same.

I hadn't thought of adjusting the BB laterally since I've never dealt with one like this before. Unfortunately, it seems someone else already tried that, as it's already as far right as I would dare position it. Any further and the lockring on the non-drive side will run out of threads to grip. So it seems a new BB with a longer spindle is the way to go. I know that over time the spindle hole on square-taper cranks gets a tiny bit wider and thus the cranks slide on slightly further, it still seems to me to have been a design flaw by cannondale to leave such tiny clearance in the first place. I recall another C-dale that I worked on a couple of years back on which the small chainring had actually begun to cut into the chainstay! Uggh.

jar351

On another note, to solve the fork crown issue on a budget I decided to take a page from illwafer's book. In case you haven't already seen it, he has a thread on here that features a gorgeous Schwinn Voyageur that he hand polished to a mirror finish and then sealed using an industrial clearcoat called ProtectaClear. I ordered a bottle of it last night and started polishing this evening. I'll snap some photos of my fork when I finish up tomorrow.

mtnbke

Good find.

The Cannondale ST series is the original "country bike." Cannondale was selling these before Grant ever left food service to start working at Bridgestone. The early builds are eerily identical to the BOBish/Rivendell bikes that everyone thinks is a Grant thing. However, these were stock spec'd bikes being made by another manufacturer and sold before he really started to get Bridgestone to swing his way, and long before Rivendell would be a gleam in his eye:

Nitto 1" Technomic stems, Nitto Randonneur handlebars w/Cinelli cork, Stronglight Delta headsets, Sugino AT triple cranks with sensible "real world" range (28/44/48 in the popular touring "half-step" of the time), Sugino BB, Suntour Superbe Pro GT long cage (supposedly the only place this exists), Suntouir Superbe seatpost, Suntour Superbe triple front mech, Suntour Superbe shifters (some reportedly came with Suntour Accushift Bar-cons), the still epic Suntour Superbe pro road pedals, Brooks honey leather saddle w/copper rivets or Ideal honey saddle w/copper rivets, Honey Cannondale leather pedal straps, three water bottle cages painted to match, amazing metallic paint, front and rear fenders painted to match, fenders, wide tires and frame fits wider tires even with fenders, kevlar belted tires (630-32), wide range freewheel 13-30, (the almost priceless now) Dia-compe NGC982 cantilevers in BLACK, Tange touring fork w/lowrider rack bosses.

These were available in 19", 21", 23", 25" and 27" sizes. The fit on this is not by modern standards which is sizing to the hoods. Fit on these has nothing to do with standover, these are touring bikes remember. You need not actually be able to standover the bike safely for it to be an ideal fit. Fit these to the top tube length, frame size be damned. Most people will be on a frame too small for them by at least one size. Fit is about all day comfort, not about avoiding having to lean the bike over to the side at a stop light.

Probably the grail bike if their ever was one. The aluminum frame was stronger than anything else out there by orders of magnitude. It was much stiffer than anything else out there. It was unbelievably lighter, lighter than most lugged racing frames, and this was a touring frame. While these had relaxed geometry, the thing was these would actually outsprint, outclimb, and still be more comfortable than racing frames throughout the 80s.

Cannondale ST bikes are worthy of being your "best bike" by far. Build 'em up with your best bits. I think Phil Wood hubs are perfect for these now. Phil will still makes 126mm hubs, and will make a 40h or 48h in 126mm if you only ask (I have 42.5/48.5 flange 126mm 40h and 48h hubs if anyone needs some). Velocity makes the Dyad in 27" (630) in 48h, and other 630 rims in 40 and 36 drill. I've always thought these would ride even better with a custom Black Sheep titanium touring fork with the identical characteristics of the originals. You could also put a carbon fork on the lower STs and make them "comfortable" racing bikes.

I absolutely think it is mistake to spread these to 130mm. That's just me, and many lightweight people have. However, these are treasures in my mind and I wouldn't want to risk it. Supposedly, some of the STs were being made in 128mm at the end.

To me this was always the bike you ride in full regalia (fenders, racks, etc.) on the century charity ride. Drive the other wankers on their flexy steel crazy as you pull away on the climbs. All they can focus on is your racks and fenders!

The disadvantage of the lower ST models, depending on your perspective, is that they came with caliper brake mounts, while the higher end STs came with Canti mounts. If you really are savvy you'll search for LL Bean bikes, knowing that early ones were just Cannondale ST series bikes.

I have a nearly NOS Nitto bars if someone could use 'em. Much too narrow for me. I replaced mine with WTB mountain road drop bars which have a more aggressive flare, and are much wider. Also have the 175mm Sugino AT triple crank and BB (replaced mine with 205mm Zinn/High Sierra triple crank). I was an idiot to sell of my Superbe Pro pedals, and now want some back. Also sold off my Brooks saddle, as they make my willy go numb.

I have a white ST400 and a red ST400 and the paint doesn't begin to compare with my ST800. I'll probably have both refinished eventually. There is a HUGE debate regarding whether these can be safely powdercoated, assuming you use a powdercoater that understands that this is thin wall aluminum and uses a very soft blasting media. Regular blasting media will literally eat through the tubing. Easton engineers say that heat treating of aluminum frames is lost if aluminum frames reach powder coating temperatures. Others have powder coated multiple Cannondales and claimed ride quality, stiffness, and strength haven't been affected. The real issue, for me is that there is no way to safely remove the plastic bits attached to the frames. These would just melt in the powder oven. I haven't refinished any of mine, yet. Stay tuned.

pastorbobnlnh 

Our Cannondale ST evangelist returns. Same sermon, different time, different post. I did learn something new this time (or did I just nod off the last time?)!

mtnbke, you could have developed this into a point on "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's bike accessories..."

But that might be a bit hypocritical, considering your feelings about Grant P.

Now back to our OP's original programing:

I think using a wider Shimano UN54 cartridge BB is a really sensible approach. I'm about to install a Coda road triple to replace the Sugino double on my ST400, and will use a UN54. That is if I can get the fixed cup out! It has been soaking in penetrating oil for three days now.

To solve the sidepull brake caliper challenge on my ST400, I've installed the Paul Racer centerpull calipers. I'm hoping they will live up to their price.

rccardr 

Checked the old catalogs and, indeed, the ST500 came with a 'fully sloping crown fork' in '85. Didn't remember that.

For caliper brakes, I'm a firm believer in the Tektro 536/538/539 series. Some are available nutted if you don't want to drill your frame for recessed mounts. Great brakes, very progressive and strong (at least sufficiently so for this 200 pounder), especially when paired with a set of Tektro's lovely R200 brake levers. I also generally convert to 700c wheels, hence the 47-57mm reach. Seems easier to find nice tires in 700 size, although I seldom go above 25's.

One (of my many) winter projects is to build up an '88 ST frame. It's going to the powder coater (no, we won't start THAT discussion again) this month and will be built up with Ultegra (double, but 50/39) 9 speed with brifters, Ultegra 36H hubs laced to Open Pro's, and the aforementioned Tektro brakes. Should be a nice light tourer, and I've been without a personal ST since selling the Yellow Submarine a year ago.

bradtx

Andre, Just remembered that I had a 14-34 5S freewheel on my Raleigh. If you want to rebuild with a nod towards touring I think this would help. Either of the brakes mentioned by pastorbob and rccardr are upgrades from OEM.

mtnbke, The plastic cable guides can be safely removed and reinstalled. The first two or three years of ST production didn't use cantilevers, then both caliper and cantilever and finally all became cantilever (or linear) 'till the end of Cannondale T bike manufacturing.

Brad

jar351

Thanks for the suggestions, folks. I hadn't given much thought to the brakes beyond installing new pads but now you've got me mentally sifting through the parts bin

Brad, I've got a 13-30 freewheel on there now, but a 14-34 would be great. I'll PM you in a minute on this.

For anyone who's curious, here's what the fork looks like at the moment:




And as I was typing this post, the mailman just brought the ProtectaClear (only took a day to get here from Reno!), so it looks like I'll be clear-coating shortly.

bradtx

Andre, That crown looks much, much better than I thought it would.

Brad

jar351

Thanks, Brad. Hopefully, it'll look even better once I do a little touch up painting and finish the clear-coat.

fas2c

I agree, jar351 you did a great job on that crown! It will look spiffy once cleare coated.

rccardr, I built my R800 up with Tektro R200 brake levers, Ultegra 6500 triple and Open Pro/Ultegra hubs. It still has some 105 bits but I am replacing them with 6500 as time pernits. It is a great ride!

The Thin Man 

jar351 - What was your process for revitalizing that fork/crown!? Nice work!

jar351

I used a dremel with a little drum sander bit to sand away the paint, rust, and the pits that the rust had created, some of which were surprisingly deep. From there I switched to hand sanding with a block and increasing grades of wet/dry sandpaper from 100 to 1500. I probably should have gone a little higher but I sort of cheaped out at the hardware store. After that I hit it with some polishing compound and then prepped it for the clear-coat. The protectaclear stuff itself seems great so far but unfortunately the applicator pad that they supplied with it--yep, it comes with an applicator, just like a tampon--tends to shed lint. I did my best to remove the lint as I went along but the end result is far from perfect. Looks great from 5 feet away, not so great up close. Next time I'll use a foam applicator. Yesterday I cured it in the oven and today I installed the fork. I'll try to snap some photos tomorrow if it isn't pouring rain all day.

Gravity Aided

This has all the earmarks of an epic restoration and rebuild- Great Bike , new processes , innovative ideas . And everyone's views about Grant P