Let's see your crankset
09-21-22, 12:39 AM
#126
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More eccentric British cranks. Williams AB-77 debuted in '62, or maybe a bit later for actual availability.
The "spider" (chainring adapter) big circle is 151 mm BCD so you could use Campy rings of the day. (144 mm rings only came out much later) The small circle is 50.4 BCD so you can use this adapter on TA cranks or any of the many other cranks with that 5-pin pattern. Or put TA rings on the Williams crank.
I heard from some English racers who used these BITD and they had a reputation for the spines on the soft alloy wallowing out and stripping. Didn't happen to me, but I only put maybe 1000 or 2000 miles on them, none of it racing. I do have one arm with stripped splines someone gave me, but I suspect it was ridden loose by someone who was not an adept mechanic.
Mark B
The "spider" (chainring adapter) big circle is 151 mm BCD so you could use Campy rings of the day. (144 mm rings only came out much later) The small circle is 50.4 BCD so you can use this adapter on TA cranks or any of the many other cranks with that 5-pin pattern. Or put TA rings on the Williams crank.
I heard from some English racers who used these BITD and they had a reputation for the spines on the soft alloy wallowing out and stripping. Didn't happen to me, but I only put maybe 1000 or 2000 miles on them, none of it racing. I do have one arm with stripped splines someone gave me, but I suspect it was ridden loose by someone who was not an adept mechanic.
Mark B
Last edited by bulgie; 09-21-22 at 05:04 PM.
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09-21-22, 12:50 AM
#127
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Sierra made a quad-ring TA crank but said
Well don't be so quick to give up. It's been done successfully. We made a couple tandems with quad-ring setups when I worked at Santana in the '70s; sadly no pictures from back then. But here are some pics I've found since then:
The first one uses a custom-made F. der. by Alex Singer. The second one is also a Singer (I think) but it uses a circa-1980 Huret parallelogram mech, maybe with some slight modifications?
Tandems, especially front-drivers, are a natural application for quad-rings because you don't have any chain-line or cross-chaining issues with such a long chain, and you don't even need an extra long spindle because there's no chainstay to get in the way of your granny. Also tandems can be scary-fast on downhills, but often like a lower climbing gear.
Mark B
The first one uses a custom-made F. der. by Alex Singer. The second one is also a Singer (I think) but it uses a circa-1980 Huret parallelogram mech, maybe with some slight modifications?
Tandems, especially front-drivers, are a natural application for quad-rings because you don't have any chain-line or cross-chaining issues with such a long chain, and you don't even need an extra long spindle because there's no chainstay to get in the way of your granny. Also tandems can be scary-fast on downhills, but often like a lower climbing gear.
Mark B
Last edited by bulgie; 09-21-22 at 12:59 AM.
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09-21-22, 02:22 AM
#128
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SR Apex 86 bcd
On my now sold Raleigh Record Ace.
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09-21-22, 07:06 AM
#129
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Nervar Star triplized:
Stronglight 28t granny.
Campy Sport (steel) triplized:
That's a 27t granny. I just thought it should be divisible by 3.
Yes there are some cranks that shouldn't be butchered. In my defense, I did this in 1978 when I was 21 years old.
Campy Record "factory" triple, designed for a 36t granny only (no other choice). Jim Merz made 31t rings to fit, so I had to turn my amp up to 11 and make a 30t. It works perfectly, no extra chain noise or rubbing where it's not suppsed to.
Then I thought "huh, why not 29t?"
OK that might be "a bridge too far". It works fine actually but the chain does hit the bolt heads. I didn't dare to counterbore the ring to have the bolt head sit flush, because I'd be removing metal right where the ring is weakest, so these bolt heads to stick out and need a little more frame clearance. FYI the bolts are Ti, just 'cuz. Still adjusting the spacer length in this picture; custom-length light-alloy spacers were made later.
"OK we get it Mark, you like triple cranks. Enough already!"
Well maybe just one more please? Mavic 'Starfish' triplized:
Maybe not the most structurally efficient (i.e. lightest) triple ever, but I like 'em. Mavic had their onw way of triplizing them but I like this way better.
OK enough
Mark B
Stronglight 28t granny.
Campy Sport (steel) triplized:
That's a 27t granny. I just thought it should be divisible by 3.
Yes there are some cranks that shouldn't be butchered. In my defense, I did this in 1978 when I was 21 years old.
Campy Record "factory" triple, designed for a 36t granny only (no other choice). Jim Merz made 31t rings to fit, so I had to turn my amp up to 11 and make a 30t. It works perfectly, no extra chain noise or rubbing where it's not suppsed to.
Then I thought "huh, why not 29t?"
OK that might be "a bridge too far". It works fine actually but the chain does hit the bolt heads. I didn't dare to counterbore the ring to have the bolt head sit flush, because I'd be removing metal right where the ring is weakest, so these bolt heads to stick out and need a little more frame clearance. FYI the bolts are Ti, just 'cuz. Still adjusting the spacer length in this picture; custom-length light-alloy spacers were made later.
"OK we get it Mark, you like triple cranks. Enough already!"
Well maybe just one more please? Mavic 'Starfish' triplized:
Maybe not the most structurally efficient (i.e. lightest) triple ever, but I like 'em. Mavic had their onw way of triplizing them but I like this way better.
OK enough
Mark B
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09-21-22, 09:03 AM
#130
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Ion Göttlich's daily shopper.... I recently commented on a similar model over at the TT page:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...es-why-79.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...es-why-79.html
Best, Ben
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09-21-22, 09:17 AM
#131
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09-21-22, 09:18 AM
#132
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09-21-22, 09:45 AM
#133
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"EVERY PERSON IS GUILTY OF ALL THE GOOD THEY DID NOT DO"
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Voice recognition may sometimes create odd spelling and grammatical errors
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09-21-22, 05:45 PM
#134
blahblahblah chrome moly
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On my wife's titanium road bike, Dura-Ace 7400 crank circa '84, 24t inner ring:
Wacky Edco, note the angled bolts for the granny:
D-A Dynadrive crank triplized by Jim Merz:
Note the "long arm" Campy F. der., a cheaper model than top of the line Record (I think they called it Gran Sport, or later rebranded Nuovo Valentino?) The parallelogram arms being longer than a Record gives it more reach. Might even work for a quad-ring? Haven't tested.
Mikkelsen triplizer ring for Campy 144 crank, takes a 6-bolt TA "Cyclotouriste"granny.
From back before Sugino AT came out with the 74 mm BCD in 5-arm, TA were about the only easily available rings smaller than the 28t of a Stronglight 99. It only got you 2 teeth smaller, 26t min, but kinda wacky-cool.
Mark B
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09-21-22, 05:58 PM
#135
blahblahblah chrome moly
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More splined weirdness, a Gnutti:
These first appeared in the early '50s. Shown here with the special remover, not interchangeable with anyone else's. This remover isn't original; it was made by a cyclist-machinist in the UK who made a few some years (decades?) ago. Don't mount these cranks on your bike unless you have the remover.
Apologies for not cleaning them before taking the picture, I didn't notice the grunge until I looked at the pics on the big screen. They deserve a polish. Here's someone else's pic, someone who had the good sense to clean before shooting:
(ugh, couldn't he have cleaned the splines on the spindle though? Haha like I'm one to talk.)
Mark B
These first appeared in the early '50s. Shown here with the special remover, not interchangeable with anyone else's. This remover isn't original; it was made by a cyclist-machinist in the UK who made a few some years (decades?) ago. Don't mount these cranks on your bike unless you have the remover.
Apologies for not cleaning them before taking the picture, I didn't notice the grunge until I looked at the pics on the big screen. They deserve a polish. Here's someone else's pic, someone who had the good sense to clean before shooting:
(ugh, couldn't he have cleaned the splines on the spindle though? Haha like I'm one to talk.)
Mark B
Last edited by bulgie; 09-21-22 at 09:22 PM.
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09-21-22, 06:23 PM
#136
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Thank you obrentharris This bike was pretty clean when I found it but I cleaned and greased everything anyway. Judging from the bar wrap (which is in amazing original condition) this bike was used very little.
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09-21-22, 10:45 PM
#137
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Stronglight 49d with a Red Clover Tripleizer
Just finished setting this up with a 52/42/32 progression as a building block for a Randonneuring bike I am assembling. Using a long cage Shimano Crane RD which can run a 14-32 freewheel in the back to give me a 1/1 climbing ratio.
Went with an SR steel granny ring for a stronger climbing gear.
Went with an SR steel granny ring for a stronger climbing gear.
09-22-22, 07:24 AM
#138
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Just finished setting this up with a 52/42/32 progression as a building block for a Randonneuring bike I am assembling. Using a long cage Shimano Crane RD which can run a 14-32 freewheel in the back to give me a 1/1 climbing ratio.
Went with an SR steel granny ring for a stronger climbing gear.
Went with an SR steel granny ring for a stronger climbing gear.
From the back side photo it looks like it's attaching to the large ring, but from the front side that doesn't seem to be the case.
09-22-22, 07:43 AM
#139
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It's early and I'm still on my first cup of coffee, so please forgive me if I'm being stupid, but I can't figure out what the granny is attaching to.
From the back side photo it looks like it's attaching to the large ring, but from the front side that doesn't seem to be the case.
From the back side photo it looks like it's attaching to the large ring, but from the front side that doesn't seem to be the case.
https://www.redclovercomponents.com/..._42_Teeth.html
09-22-22, 11:44 AM
#140
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JohnD, thanks for answering question about how granny is attached. Middle ring is designed with attachments and you just use spacers to get proper offset. Red Clover sells the spacer kit for 12$.
09-23-22, 01:07 PM
#142
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Sooo, can we see the whole bike on this one, assume its a Davidson, did you take the crank off a Merz or?
I know you've seen these but since we're here....
Running regular pedals with adapters on both, the ones on the MTB were made from scratch by Jim.
I know you've seen these but since we're here....
Running regular pedals with adapters on both, the ones on the MTB were made from scratch by Jim.
09-23-22, 04:42 PM
#143
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Off a DeBernardi,,,
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09-23-22, 08:58 PM
#144
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More splined weirdness, a Gnutti:
These first appeared in the early '50s. Shown here with the special remover, not interchangeable with anyone else's. This remover isn't original; it was made by a cyclist-machinist in the UK who made a few some years (decades?) ago. Don't mount these cranks on your bike unless you have the remover.
Apologies for not cleaning them before taking the picture, I didn't notice the grunge until I looked at the pics on the big screen. They deserve a polish. Here's someone else's pic, someone who had the good sense to clean before shooting:
(ugh, couldn't he have cleaned the splines on the spindle though? Haha like I'm one to talk.)
Mark B
These first appeared in the early '50s. Shown here with the special remover, not interchangeable with anyone else's. This remover isn't original; it was made by a cyclist-machinist in the UK who made a few some years (decades?) ago. Don't mount these cranks on your bike unless you have the remover.
Apologies for not cleaning them before taking the picture, I didn't notice the grunge until I looked at the pics on the big screen. They deserve a polish. Here's someone else's pic, someone who had the good sense to clean before shooting:
(ugh, couldn't he have cleaned the splines on the spindle though? Haha like I'm one to talk.)
Mark B
Best, Ben
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"EVERY PERSON IS GUILTY OF ALL THE GOOD THEY DID NOT DO"
Voltaire
Voice recognition may sometimes create odd spelling and grammatical errors
"EVERY PERSON IS GUILTY OF ALL THE GOOD THEY DID NOT DO"
Voltaire
Voice recognition may sometimes create odd spelling and grammatical errors
09-23-22, 09:24 PM
#145
blahblahblah chrome moly
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09-25-22, 12:55 AM
#146
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Rare-ish but not especially good: Thun Aero Coronado by Alfred Thung GmbH.
From the 1980's, used to be installed on an unexceptional Finnish "trekking bike", married with a square taper bearing assembly in a Fauber (one-piece) BB shell. The ds arm is swaged to the spider, and the spider with the chainrings gets bent easily. I like the looks none the less.
See also:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nicks-stuff/8204119598
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...7-92c509c6f15c
