ctrlmike

Here's a potentially dumb question: can one build up an old (and sweet) steel frame with a new group, say Shimano 105 or better? What would the outcome be like? Anybody done this yet (somehow I know the answer is yes)? Any pics? Thank and looking forward to seeing your new old steeds!

JoelS

How old is "old"?

ctrlmike

Good question I have in mind something like a '70s or very early '80s, say Reynolds tubing.

mrvrsick

Mmm, classic and vintage forum?
But really, it depends on the bike. My motobecane has swiss threaded cranks, so no new cranks for me.... not that I would upgrade them anyway

FreddyBoy

I posted a similar question in the Mechanics forum.
I had an old Schwinn of no great quality - A Sports Tourer. It fits me OK but I prefer my current ride. (bike is nothing exceptional but it works for now)
Anyway
I was offered a deal on used Dura Ace 9sp shifters/derailleurs, brakes for $225 and install them on the Schwinn. (I already own spare 700C rims)

The almost unanimous consensus was NOT to do it as it wasn't worth the upgrade, unless the fit was exceptional.

epenthetic

The main issue is the bb threading and the rear dropout spacing. The only bb threading you'll be able to accommodate is Italian and ISO/British, unless you use a square taper crank and buy some exotic bb. For the dropouts, most will be 125, 126 mm, whereas current is 130mm. With steel, you can just squeeze it in there or have the frame respaced by cold setting to 130mm.

The rest is pretty standard. A '70s bike will probably need a bunch of clamp-on cable stops and downtube shift bosses, since many bikes of the era didn't have those braze-ons, but other than that it works fine.

I ride a mid-'80s Bianchi with a current-ish Chorus/Centaur group these days.

Walter

The outcome would be a nice bike that some might consider a tad heavy. There's been a few threads about this on the Classic and Vintage board as well as lots of pics.

Older frames will take new stuff w/o alot of muss and fuss. The rear triangle will need to be spread. Most times you can just pull the dropouts apart enough to slide a modern rear wheel in. In the worst case you'll need to "cold set" the rear triangle but a good LBS can do this for minimal cost.

Something like an older Masi with modern components (Campy in this particular case) would result in a very smooth bike. "Character" is hard to define but I think such a bike would have lots of it. Also, you're only swapping parts that bolt on/of so re-configuring that bike to its "classic" configuration is only a few hours of work.

I have a 531 frame that I've put a CF fork and ahead set on but haven't gotten farther than that, yet.

ctrlmike

"character" is what I had in mind. Thanks for the interesting posts and leads everybody! I'll have a look at the classic/vintage forums, which I haven't explored yet.

unterhausen

there is a thread about this somewhere in the Classic & Vintage section. I like the idea. I wouldn't do it to a collectible bike.

BengeBoy 

This is one of the links on this topic from C&V...

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=445334

StanSeven

If you want a bike with "character", buy a new frame with links to to past. For example Waterford is the old Schwinn Paramount company and they make calssic steel frames with lugs with new steel technology. You can get a classic look with low weight and handing/performnace that matches the latest in framebuilding.

ok_commuter

Just get a late 80s/early 90s Merckx or De Rosa frame with 130mm rear dropouts and go nuts.

ctrlmike

This is exactly what I had in mind...

stripes

I prefer to use a slightly newer frame for this; if you get an early-to-mid-90's bike, it will already have 130 spacing. In my case, I used a Colnago Super Piu which had been repainted in the color scheme of a late 70's Super. Chorus 9-speed shifters and a mix of modern and period-correct Campy components. Rode great.
Check out this thread. My Colnago is in it: Retro Roadies
And this one: Old School frames with new school tech

bcordy

my 1982 medici runs dura ace and ultegra. It's awesome, weighs just a teeny bit over these carbon frames, rides nicer (i dig steel), and frankly looks better, plus when I win it's the best!

it's doable and great, do it!

kimconyc

Apologies for the picture; this was taken when it was first set up before any adjustments, etc and without a garage door because it was at night. I don't really take pictures, I just ride but I think you get the idea.

It's a 92/93 Merckx with '09 Rival and '08 Rival crank and I use it as my beater. Just got back from riding it in the park about an hour ago. Yes, steel is real! I kinda want to eventually find a TSX tubed Merckx and build it up after riding this one.

jyossarian

Check Sheldon Brown's site for cold setting the rear spacing. You might be able to do it yourself. It sounds like a great project and a great learning opportunity. And if you don't like the results, you'll still have a sweet gruppo to put on another frame, and you can restore the old frame using period correct stuff.

Road Fan

I did this to my early '80s Mondonico, putting on a Campy 10 speed mixed group. I did have teh rear triangle spread by my LBS, it cost around $30. If anything the character of the frame (responsive, stiff, excellent power transfer, crisp handling, stable under all conditions, is enhanced and more apparent than with the early Shimano 600 set it had. A sweet bike is even sweeter.

I wouldn't do it to my 1980 California Masi, but that's mainly on the basis of fit. Besides it rides great as a crude, unrefined 1980 masterpiece.

Do it!

Road Fan

ctrlmike

stripes and kimconyc - gorgeous bikes! I'm hitting the garage sales next weekend

kimconyc

Just make sure to check the inside of the tubes for rust. Chips on the paint are ok since these can be touched up.

The great thing about steel is that hardly anyone rides them anymore so you can find some really great frames out there. I love my CF bike but nothing feels like steel on those long rides.

Jay Andriot

Just when I thought I'd run out of places to post my steel Colnago, same old picture, brand new thread,

ctrlmike

I like my CF bike, tried aluminum, but steel is missing from the collection

stripes

thanks! current setup:

caloso

You mean something like an 86 Gazelle Champion Mondial with a 10 speed group?



It can even be raced, in a pinch.

Paulie

"can one build up an old (and sweet) steel frame with a new group"

How about an old-fashioned frame that's actually new? With new-style components.