tubeless riders: lightweight tube recommendation for emergency?
04-01-22, 10:38 AM
#26
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[QUOTE=RNAV;22458012]
Most are impossible to dismount/mount by hand, and the vast majority are at best extremely difficult even with portable tools. All you will really achieve is unnecessarily weighing yourself down and pissing yourself off, even if you manage to be one of the few who can successfully install a tube into a tubeless tire on the side of the road. There are smarter options.
what you said makes sense to me. when I asked the original question, I had no idea that seating the tubeless bead would be so much more difficult... until after I watch a few youtube videos. so I should just forget about carrying a tube for emergency and will likely follow your advice.Thank you.
Most are impossible to dismount/mount by hand, and the vast majority are at best extremely difficult even with portable tools. All you will really achieve is unnecessarily weighing yourself down and pissing yourself off, even if you manage to be one of the few who can successfully install a tube into a tubeless tire on the side of the road. There are smarter options.
04-01-22, 11:09 AM
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I live dangerously - I don't carry any spare tube, pump or plug kit. Got the wife on speed dial instead.
For ultra long rides and/or unknown territory, I do carry the cheapest 5$ tube I can find in one of my back pocket and a mini pump.
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04-01-22, 12:35 PM
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I got so used to my tubeless tires being reliable that I got too lazy about what I was rolling over. Lesson learned.
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04-01-22, 01:19 PM
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[QUOTE=RNAV;22458012]
I've been riding road tubeless going on 8 years; haven't carried a spare tube in 5 years and have never been stranded in those 5 years. I have, however, had punctures that sealant alone wouldn't seal. Here's my advice:
Don't bother carrying a spare tube. Why? Because if you bring a spare tube you have to commit to being able to install said tube on the side of the road, which means you've got to bring a lot more crap with you (tire levers, potentially a bead jack, likely some latex gloves so you don't get sealant all over you, etc.). And even if you do bring all that stuff with you, nearly all tubeless tires are a challenging to dismount/mount in a shop scenario, and even more so on the side of the road. Most are impossible to dismount/mount by hand, and the vast majority are at best extremely difficult even with portable tools. All you will really achieve is unnecessarily weighing yourself down and pissing yourself off, even if you manage to be one of the few who can successfully install a tube into a tubeless tire on the side of the road. There are smarter options.
What I do: I run Stan's sealant, carry a CO2 cartridge w/ regulator, a tubeless plug kit, and a lightweight multitool. That's it (well, plus my phone and food) -- no bulging jersey pockets, no saddle bag loaded with tubes and tools. This setup has never left me stranded. The sealant will seal 90-95% of punctures before you can even pull over to stop. If it's still leaking, rotate the puncture to the bottom to allow the sealant to pool. If it doesn't stop leaking after about 15 seconds, I plug it. That fixes 98% of punctures. If it's a very large puncture, I'll use multiple plugs. That fixes 99% of punctures. If, after all that, I'm still leaking . . . I call it a day and gently ride home, where I'll use a tubeless tire patch kit to patch the puncture. These are the products I use based on experience with other products. I've not had particularly great experiences with the bacon-style tubeless plugs, nor have I had enjoyable experiences with dynaplug. The Stan's Dart has been the easiest plug to insert across the spectrum of small to large punctures. I run Stans sealant only because the Darts are supposedly designed to work with Stan's sealant . . . I haven't yet tried the Darts with other sealants.
One other thing I'm going to do is install Vittoria air liners. As I mentioned, my above process has never left me stranded, and I've had plenty of punctures. If, however, I do run into a 1% situation where I've got a massive gash (i.e. something so big that even a tube wouldn't fix), the air liner would let me get home. It's a 24g weight penalty for a lot of benefit, and recent rolling resistance tests show there is no measurable difference in rolling resistance between the same tire with or without an airliner.
Bottom line: get airliners, run sealant, carry a plug kit and some CO2. That's all you'll ever need.
I went road tubeless in ‘13 or ‘14 too, and I agree a spare tube may be a vestige of a bygone era. That said, I have had a sidewall cut which sealant couldn’t handle, and I popped my tube in and continued a +30 miles club ride at regular pace and intensity. That’s not something an insert like the Vittoria Airliner, can do. Airliner is recommended only up to 50km at max 20kph, and then those of us pushing the weight limit for Airliner, I wonder would it feel good enough to even do that much. Vittoria also say to change Airliner annually, which, at $50 per, is considerably more expensive than a TPU tube which could sit in a bag for years.
Ultimately, the best solution is the one which suits any given rider’s needs, but self-sufficiency is always the bottom-line bailout. I’m lucky in that I can peel my preferred Schwalbe Pro Ones from my preferred American Classic Argent rims with just a pair of tire levers, and also for the fact that carrying a TPU, pump, and Dart plug isn’t onerous, so I’m well covered to handled just about any flat tire eventualities.
The last one I had, though, was a “call of shame,” though, because while braking a fairly worn Hutchinson Galactik on a downhill, I accidentally locked up the rear as I came to a crossroad at the bottom of the hill, causing a blowout to rip the carcass 1.5” right down the center of the tread and tear down to the bead at one end. It was kinda crazy…the tire was unbootable and irreparable. My wife was overseas at the time, but luckily my brother was around and willing to drive about 15 miles out of town to get me. I guess Uber would have been my next try, but this was last summer so who knows if I’d have found a car. Anyway, I was down by the river and it was dusk, so the mosquitos were murderous, so it was a most unpleasant wait.
I've been riding road tubeless going on 8 years; haven't carried a spare tube in 5 years and have never been stranded in those 5 years. I have, however, had punctures that sealant alone wouldn't seal. Here's my advice:
Don't bother carrying a spare tube. Why? Because if you bring a spare tube you have to commit to being able to install said tube on the side of the road, which means you've got to bring a lot more crap with you (tire levers, potentially a bead jack, likely some latex gloves so you don't get sealant all over you, etc.). And even if you do bring all that stuff with you, nearly all tubeless tires are a challenging to dismount/mount in a shop scenario, and even more so on the side of the road. Most are impossible to dismount/mount by hand, and the vast majority are at best extremely difficult even with portable tools. All you will really achieve is unnecessarily weighing yourself down and pissing yourself off, even if you manage to be one of the few who can successfully install a tube into a tubeless tire on the side of the road. There are smarter options.
What I do: I run Stan's sealant, carry a CO2 cartridge w/ regulator, a tubeless plug kit, and a lightweight multitool. That's it (well, plus my phone and food) -- no bulging jersey pockets, no saddle bag loaded with tubes and tools. This setup has never left me stranded. The sealant will seal 90-95% of punctures before you can even pull over to stop. If it's still leaking, rotate the puncture to the bottom to allow the sealant to pool. If it doesn't stop leaking after about 15 seconds, I plug it. That fixes 98% of punctures. If it's a very large puncture, I'll use multiple plugs. That fixes 99% of punctures. If, after all that, I'm still leaking . . . I call it a day and gently ride home, where I'll use a tubeless tire patch kit to patch the puncture. These are the products I use based on experience with other products. I've not had particularly great experiences with the bacon-style tubeless plugs, nor have I had enjoyable experiences with dynaplug. The Stan's Dart has been the easiest plug to insert across the spectrum of small to large punctures. I run Stans sealant only because the Darts are supposedly designed to work with Stan's sealant . . . I haven't yet tried the Darts with other sealants.
One other thing I'm going to do is install Vittoria air liners. As I mentioned, my above process has never left me stranded, and I've had plenty of punctures. If, however, I do run into a 1% situation where I've got a massive gash (i.e. something so big that even a tube wouldn't fix), the air liner would let me get home. It's a 24g weight penalty for a lot of benefit, and recent rolling resistance tests show there is no measurable difference in rolling resistance between the same tire with or without an airliner.
Bottom line: get airliners, run sealant, carry a plug kit and some CO2. That's all you'll ever need.
Ultimately, the best solution is the one which suits any given rider’s needs, but self-sufficiency is always the bottom-line bailout. I’m lucky in that I can peel my preferred Schwalbe Pro Ones from my preferred American Classic Argent rims with just a pair of tire levers, and also for the fact that carrying a TPU, pump, and Dart plug isn’t onerous, so I’m well covered to handled just about any flat tire eventualities.
The last one I had, though, was a “call of shame,” though, because while braking a fairly worn Hutchinson Galactik on a downhill, I accidentally locked up the rear as I came to a crossroad at the bottom of the hill, causing a blowout to rip the carcass 1.5” right down the center of the tread and tear down to the bead at one end. It was kinda crazy…the tire was unbootable and irreparable. My wife was overseas at the time, but luckily my brother was around and willing to drive about 15 miles out of town to get me. I guess Uber would have been my next try, but this was last summer so who knows if I’d have found a car. Anyway, I was down by the river and it was dusk, so the mosquitos were murderous, so it was a most unpleasant wait.
04-01-22, 01:21 PM
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I used to carry 1 tube for a just in case thing, but, now I carry one for the other people that dont. I've had that experience 4 times in the last yr. I've never needed to put a tube in my tube tire since I moved tubeless.
04-01-22, 01:25 PM
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04-01-22, 03:19 PM
#32
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I have five tubeless bikes (road, cross, gravel, MTB, fat) and (knocks wood) I've never flatted any of them in the four years I've been using exclusively tubeless. I still ride with a (regular) spare tube and two CO2s in a small saddle bag and I put a Stan's Dart in my jersey pocket. I bought two Darts three years ago and I've never used them.
04-02-22, 07:03 AM
#33
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Tubeless road tires are getting better. I recently bought zipp 303s hookless rims with a 23mm internal width. My Pirelli p zero 30mm tires went on without the help of a bead jack and inflated with my over 30 year old silca pump. After some use, most tires reinstall more easily, so I don't anticipate any problems if I have to install my tube, out on the road. The only punctures I've had in the last 17,000 miles were two pinch flats from hitting rocks, when I was still using tubes. No punctures in the last 7,000 miles with tubeless. I've haven't booted a tire in over 30 years. I do include nitrile gloves in my jersey pocket repair kit.
04-02-22, 08:33 AM
#34
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I went road tubeless in ‘13 or ‘14 too, and I agree a spare tube may be a vestige of a bygone era. That said, I have had a sidewall cut which sealant couldn’t handle, and I popped my tube in and continued a +30 miles club ride at regular pace and intensity. That’s not something an insert like the Vittoria Airliner, can do. Airliner is recommended only up to 50km at max 20kph, and then those of us pushing the weight limit for Airliner, I wonder would it feel good enough to even do that much. Vittoria also say to change Airliner annually, which, at $50 per, is considerably more expensive than a TPU tube which could sit in a bag for years.
Ultimately, the best solution is the one which suits any given rider’s needs, but self-sufficiency is always the bottom-line bailout. I’m lucky in that I can peel my preferred Schwalbe Pro Ones from my preferred American Classic Argent rims with just a pair of tire levers, and also for the fact that carrying a TPU, pump, and Dart plug isn’t onerous, so I’m well covered to handled just about any flat tire eventualities.
The last one I had, though, was a “call of shame,” though, because while braking a fairly worn Hutchinson Galactik on a downhill, I accidentally locked up the rear as I came to a crossroad at the bottom of the hill, causing a blowout to rip the carcass 1.5” right down the center of the tread and tear down to the bead at one end. It was kinda crazy…the tire was unbootable and irreparable. My wife was overseas at the time, but luckily my brother was around and willing to drive about 15 miles out of town to get me. I guess Uber would have been my next try, but this was last summer so who knows if I’d have found a car. Anyway, I was down by the river and it was dusk, so the mosquitos were murderous, so it was a most unpleasant wait.
Ultimately, the best solution is the one which suits any given rider’s needs, but self-sufficiency is always the bottom-line bailout. I’m lucky in that I can peel my preferred Schwalbe Pro Ones from my preferred American Classic Argent rims with just a pair of tire levers, and also for the fact that carrying a TPU, pump, and Dart plug isn’t onerous, so I’m well covered to handled just about any flat tire eventualities.
The last one I had, though, was a “call of shame,” though, because while braking a fairly worn Hutchinson Galactik on a downhill, I accidentally locked up the rear as I came to a crossroad at the bottom of the hill, causing a blowout to rip the carcass 1.5” right down the center of the tread and tear down to the bead at one end. It was kinda crazy…the tire was unbootable and irreparable. My wife was overseas at the time, but luckily my brother was around and willing to drive about 15 miles out of town to get me. I guess Uber would have been my next try, but this was last summer so who knows if I’d have found a car. Anyway, I was down by the river and it was dusk, so the mosquitos were murderous, so it was a most unpleasant wait.
Calls of shame can be very unique things. I've had 2 since 2015. One, the valve stem corroded and when I went to add some CO2 after the sealant did its job on a puncture, the valve stem literally sheared off the wheel. I had a spare tube with me, but broke both tire levers trying to remove the tire. Yes, I could carry some steel core tire levers, but then I'm a weight weenie, so I'll sacrifice a call of shame for weight. Two, I broke a spoke. I don't care what anyone says . . . I'm not going to carry spare spokes with me, lol.
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04-04-22, 07:16 AM
#35
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Tubeless road tires are getting better. I recently bought zipp 303s hookless rims with a 23mm internal width. My Pirelli p zero 30mm tires went on without the help of a bead jack and inflated with my over 30 year old silca pump. After some use, most tires reinstall more easily, so I don't anticipate any problems if I have to install my tube, out on the road. The only punctures I've had in the last 17,000 miles were two pinch flats from hitting rocks, when I was still using tubes. No punctures in the last 7,000 miles with tubeless. I've haven't booted a tire in over 30 years. I do include nitrile gloves in my jersey pocket repair kit.
Meanwhile, pretty much any tubeless tire (including GP 5000 TL) on my older alloy tubeless ready rims require a bead jack and lots of swearing.
04-07-22, 09:18 AM
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I don't think that is entirely true. I have been riding my Campagnolo Shamal 2-way fit wheels for 12 years now and have seen a big improvement in the tires since the days when Hutchinson Fusion2 was the only tubeless tire you could buy. From the start, apart from the first set of tires I have installed, I have never needed any tool for installation, even the 2 occasions when I had to install inner tubes on the side of the road. My current Fusion5 all season were shockingly easy to mount, even easier than the same tire in a tube type version I installed on my other bike which has Campagnolo Neutron wheels which are not tubeless compatible
04-07-22, 03:47 PM
#37
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I think it's the wheels that have gotten better, more so than the tires. I also have Zipp 303 S and I was able to install 28mm GP 5000 S TR's on them with minimal effort. I have heard others say these tires are difficult to install.
Meanwhile, pretty much any tubeless tire (including GP 5000 TL) on my older alloy tubeless ready rims require a bead jack and lots of swearing.
Meanwhile, pretty much any tubeless tire (including GP 5000 TL) on my older alloy tubeless ready rims require a bead jack and lots of swearing.
I have 303s and have had no issue mounting anything with just thumbs- everything seems pretty easy on them
04-08-22, 08:40 PM
#38
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The Tubolito inner tube will be the most for a spare and I bought a couple for my mountain bikes. Not sure if there is nearly the gain with a road tire size tube.
04-09-22, 12:27 PM
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I’ve used & had success w’ Dynaplugs & even they require a bit of effort shoving them into a gravel sized tire.
I’m about to make the jump to tubeless on my road bike. Looking fwd to more 28c tires being on the market. Any & all info is appreciated.
04-09-22, 02:39 PM
#40
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I question the logic of going tubeless with a road bike. Advantages for mountain and gravel bikes with being able to run at much lower pressures without a lot of pinch flats and gaining from more traction but this does not apply to a road bike. Thre are advantages to running with a 28mm wide road tire and having lower tire pressures and more bump shock absorption but if I have a 700x28 tube tire at 70 PSI instead of a 700x23 at 100 PSI, what am I going to gain by going to a 700x28mm tubeless tire, and how much lower can I have the PSI without a significant increase in rolling resistance?
My last flat on a road bike was more than 40 years ago when I used sewup tubular tires. I once destroyed my front tire thanks to a broken Coca Cola bottle on the road but it would have been a total loss with a tubeless tire. When a sewup cost me the equivalent of 15 hours of my labor as a student making minimum wage, I became very good at spotting debris in the roadway and avoiding it and even used tire scrappers to knock off bits of glass and thorns.
Tube or tubeless I am going to need to carry a spare tube and way to inflate it or be prepared to walk back to my house or car.
My last flat on a road bike was more than 40 years ago when I used sewup tubular tires. I once destroyed my front tire thanks to a broken Coca Cola bottle on the road but it would have been a total loss with a tubeless tire. When a sewup cost me the equivalent of 15 hours of my labor as a student making minimum wage, I became very good at spotting debris in the roadway and avoiding it and even used tire scrappers to knock off bits of glass and thorns.
Tube or tubeless I am going to need to carry a spare tube and way to inflate it or be prepared to walk back to my house or car.
04-09-22, 03:13 PM
#41
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You're fortunate to ride where you ride and I would never recommend tubeless for you. That said, others don't ride in the same conditions and, for them, tubeless may be a godsend. Before I went tubeless, I probably averaged a flat every 500 miles or so - there's no friggin' way that I'm going back to tubes. and a dozen plus roadside flats per year, but I'm happy for you (like, sincerely).
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04-09-22, 04:30 PM
#42
Flyin' under the radar
I’ve never used a Stan’s dart but have owned & carried one on my gravel bikes for going on 3 years. From looking at it, the tip seems to be rather flimsy/flexible plastic. Have you ever had it break while trying to insert into a tire?
I’ve used & had success w’ Dynaplugs & even they require a bit of effort shoving them into a gravel sized tire.
I’m about to make the jump to tubeless on my road bike. Looking fwd to more 28c tires being on the market. Any & all info is appreciated.
I’ve used & had success w’ Dynaplugs & even they require a bit of effort shoving them into a gravel sized tire.
I’m about to make the jump to tubeless on my road bike. Looking fwd to more 28c tires being on the market. Any & all info is appreciated.
With dynaplug I tended to run into two different scenarios. 1) the hole was too big to seal with sealant, but too small to be able to readily get the dynaplug in. This often led to losing all the air out of the tire, which made it even more difficult to get the dynaplug inserted. The dart seems to go into these too-big-to-seal yet still small holes much easier than dynaplug (whether using the bullet tip or the round tip). 2) The hole was so big that one dynaplug wouldn't seal, and putting in another plug would either push the original all the way through, or if I could get multiple dynaplugs in they wouldn't provide a secure and permanent seal. So, I would inevitably have to dismount the tire, remove the plugs, patch the tire, and remount. The dart seems to handle these larger multiple-dynaplug-size holes better with only one dart, and I haven't had to patch a tire yet.
Heck, I even had a situation where I inserted the dynaplug into the tire and when I removed the tool from the tire, the tool retained the plug itself and the head of the dynaplug ripped off leaving me with no plug in the tire and a metal plug head rattling around inside. That really sucked because there was no way (on the side of the road) to get the plug out of the dynaplug tool in order to insert another plug. So I had to limp home and use a dental pick to remove the plug from the tool. That was when I decided to try to find some other solution.
Don't get me wrong -- I definitely had times when dynaplug worked as advertised, so it's not like dynaplug is a terrible option. It's a good option, and I've recommended dynaplug in the past. For right now, though, I think Stan's Darts are a better option.
Last edited by RNAV; 04-10-22 at 07:13 AM. Reason: Grammar.
04-11-22, 07:21 AM
#43
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Despite having a tubeless bike, my LBS recommends me to carry an extra tube since I am more familiar with the procedure (coming from regular clinchers) of fixing a flat on the road
My priority is to reduce bulkiness and not weight or ride quality (since I will not be riding on that anyway) and I am looking at either Tubolito or Aerothan. Prices and similar and weight difference is negligible. I am more concerned with how small they are so they don't take up much room in my saddle bag (will be carrying a CO2 bottle) Any tubeless riders out there who could make a recommendation (or informs me of your emergency tactics if different)
My priority is to reduce bulkiness and not weight or ride quality (since I will not be riding on that anyway) and I am looking at either Tubolito or Aerothan. Prices and similar and weight difference is negligible. I am more concerned with how small they are so they don't take up much room in my saddle bag (will be carrying a CO2 bottle) Any tubeless riders out there who could make a recommendation (or informs me of your emergency tactics if different)
I have dabbled in lightweight continental tubes in the past. The walls are so thin, that if you pinch them a little bit during installation with a tire lever, you puncture them instantly. It seems like looking at them the wrong way, they get punctured. Not the ideal tube for a roadside installation. Been there, done that. Had 2 ultralight tubes with me on a tight fitting rim/tire combo. Had to get a cab home. It seems like with tubeless rims/tires the fit would be even tighter, so you would be MORE likely to puncture an ultralight butyl or latex tube.
Get a normal weight butyl tube, if you ask me.
04-11-22, 12:21 PM
#44
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My advice would be to pack a normal, butyl tube. Especially for road side emergencies.
I have dabbled in lightweight continental tubes in the past. The walls are so thin, that if you pinch them a little bit during installation with a tire lever, you puncture them instantly. It seems like looking at them the wrong way, they get punctured. Not the ideal tube for a roadside installation. Been there, done that. Had 2 ultralight tubes with me on a tight fitting rim/tire combo. Had to get a cab home. It seems like with tubeless rims/tires the fit would be even tighter, so you would be MORE likely to puncture an ultralight butyl or latex tube.
Get a normal weight butyl tube, if you ask me.
I have dabbled in lightweight continental tubes in the past. The walls are so thin, that if you pinch them a little bit during installation with a tire lever, you puncture them instantly. It seems like looking at them the wrong way, they get punctured. Not the ideal tube for a roadside installation. Been there, done that. Had 2 ultralight tubes with me on a tight fitting rim/tire combo. Had to get a cab home. It seems like with tubeless rims/tires the fit would be even tighter, so you would be MORE likely to puncture an ultralight butyl or latex tube.
Get a normal weight butyl tube, if you ask me.
