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Revisit the greatest American cyclist debate: LeMond or Armstrong

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Greg LeMond
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Revisit the greatest American cyclist debate: LeMond or Armstrong

Old 07-31-09, 08:53 AM
  #26  
Laminarman
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Originally Posted by BillyD
I don't see what the problem would be in discussing this thread in road cycling. It's starting to look like road cycling forum is being reserved for wheel comparisons, frame comparisons, gruppo comparisons, HRM comparisons and other such mundane and tiresome topics.

If you're content with your current bike & components, how many people are interested in these narrow-focused comparison threads, really?
Let's face it that most fans of racing are likely road cyclists so keeping this thread here is logical. I pop in here looking for more than just product reviews. Face it, I can't afford half the stuff reviewed here anyways.
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Old 07-31-09, 08:53 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by San Rensho
Without a doubt. Lemond would never win any popularity contests. Lemond is a whiny, butt-insky that is borderline crazy.
Thank you for that insightful psychological analysis
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Old 07-31-09, 08:58 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Flash
I still can't believe that this TT time still stands today. I wonder which bike he rode that day, specs, etc.
This one. A Bottechia low profile - steel - rumoured by some to be a repainted Cinelli Laser. Mavic componentry, Mavic cowhorn bars, Scott clip on tri-bars, Mavic rear disc.

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Old 07-31-09, 09:01 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by classic1
This one. A Bottechia low profile - steel - rumoured by some to be a repainted Cinelli Laser. Mavic componentry, Mavic cowhorn bars, Scott clip on tri-bars, Mavic rear disc,

red frame, white fork, small front wheel & large rear.
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Old 07-31-09, 09:04 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by embankmentlb
red frame, white fork, small front wheel & large rear.
Everyone knows red bikes are fastest.
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Old 07-31-09, 09:22 AM
  #31  
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LA for me. Won more, had greater impact.
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Old 07-31-09, 09:23 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by classic1
This one. A Bottechia low profile - steel - rumoured by some to be a repainted Cinelli Laser. Mavic componentry, Mavic cowhorn bars, Scott clip on tri-bars, Mavic rear disc.

Those '80s helmets look ridiculous.
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Old 07-31-09, 09:31 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by monosierra
All helmets look ridiculous.
Fixed. They might protect your head, but I've never seen a cool looking one.
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Old 07-31-09, 09:49 AM
  #34  
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Don't ALL aero helmets look ridiculous?
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Old 07-31-09, 10:12 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Flash
The new Bicycling magazine has an in-depth article on LeMond, very interesting read, gives us a chance to revisit the greatest American cyclist debate. Running along the bottom of the article is a timeline "LeMond through the years."

It's mind blowing to read of LeMond's accomplishments -- as a very young man and when he's at his peak in the Tour. Some accomplishments of note:

-- wins just about every junior championship that matters
-- 1985: could have won TDF but rode in support of Hinault
-- 1986: wins TDF despite merciless attacks by Hinault
-- 1987: loses 3/4 of blood supply during hunting accident, breaks two ribs, collapses lung, has pellets lodged in heart, liver, intestines, diaphragm, back, leg, foot, arm and hand. Nearly dies.
-- 1989: wins TDF on final day TT, overcoming 50-second deficit to finish 8 seconds ahead of nearest rival. Closest TDF in history.

** first racer to wear HRM in competition, first to use power meter in competition, introduced aero bars to the world.
Armstrong has accomplished quite a lot, but for my money LeMond was the greatest American cyclist. There is a difficult-to-quantify grittiness about LeMond's career that puts him up top for me. Before LeMond came along, I was riding a Schwinn Scrambler.

I don't see a link to the article online, but it's worth buying the magazine for the read. Just to be reminded of how much work this guy did to get to the top -- and stay there. And yes, the post-cycling-career circus is covered as well.

Please give us your thoughts.

cheers
Armstrong > Lemond

And Lemond didn't introduce aero-bars to the world. As far as I know, the first pro-cyclists to use them in a race were the team members of 7-Eleven in the 1989 Tour De Trump. Jim Ochowicz (7-Eleven Team Director) said the "Tri-Bars" (as they were called at the time) were supposed to be a "secret weapon" for the Tour, but protecting Dag Otto Lauritzen's first place GC standing necessitated their use of the on the final TT of the '89 Tour De Trump. Dag ended up beating Eric Van Derahrden, who unfortunately went of course in the final TT, into second place.
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Old 07-31-09, 11:15 AM
  #36  
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Greatest American professional racing cyclist? Many make persuasive arguments for Taylor, but I've always thought it would be Zimmerman.

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Old 07-31-09, 06:03 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by patentcad
Nobody will ever beat Lemond winning the '89 TdF by 8 seconds, and to this day, that ride is the FASTEST individual TT average speed ever recorded @ the Tour de France. That was over the top. If you tried to sell that script to Hollywood, they'd reject it as too far fetched. I'll never forget Fignon collapsing on the ground in tears when he realized Lemond had beaten him. What a race.
Please forgive the hyperbole but that is the single greatest TT I have ever seen, if not the greatest single race I have ever seen.

Cheers,

Brian J.
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Old 07-31-09, 06:03 PM
  #38  
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Actually, it isn't speculation. Armstrong did, in fact, test positive for EPO in retroactive testing conducted in 2005. There were 6 samples that tested positive for EPO from his 1999 Tour win. Just because he was not sanctioned does not mean that he didn't test positive. He did. This coupled with other strong evidence linking him to a doctor convicted of providing EPO to several cyclists makes Armstrong's Tour de France wins as not legitimate.

It's like saying that Barry Bonds is the greatest ever baseball player. The only evidence pointing to Barry's drug usage is his link to a trainer who was busted for providing drugs to other players. The evidence against Armstrong is far greater.
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Old 07-31-09, 06:04 PM
  #39  
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1) Greg Lemond
2) Andy Hampsten
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Old 07-31-09, 06:49 PM
  #40  
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Major Taylor - hands down. He would eat these two for breakfast and pass them before lunch.

From The Major Taylor Association:
December 1896 -- Taylor finishes eighth in his first professional race, a six-day endurance event at Madison Square Garden in New York.

1898 -- Taylor holds seven world records, including the 1-mile paced standing start (1:41.4).

Aug. 10, 1899 -- Taylor wins the world 1-mile championship in Montreal, defeating Boston rival Tom Butler. Taylor is the second black world champion athlete, after bantamweight boxer George Dixon's title fights in 1890-91.

Nov. 15, 1899 -- Taylor knocks the 1-mile record down to 1:19.

September 1900 -- Thwarted in previous seasons by racism, Taylor finally gets to complete the national championship series and becomes American sprint champion.

October 1900-January 1901 -- Taylor performs in a vaudeville act with Charles "Mile-a-Minute" Murphy, racing on rollers on theater stages across Massachusetts.

March -June 1901 -- Taylor competes in Europe, which he had long resisted because his Baptist beliefs precluded racing on Sundays. He beats every European champion.
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Old 07-31-09, 06:54 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Mooo
Major Taylor - hands down. He would eat these two for breakfast and pass them before lunch.

From The Major Taylor Association:
December 1896 -- Taylor finishes eighth in his first professional race, a six-day endurance event at Madison Square Garden in New York.

1898 -- Taylor holds seven world records, including the 1-mile paced standing start (1:41.4).

Aug. 10, 1899 -- Taylor wins the world 1-mile championship in Montreal, defeating Boston rival Tom Butler. Taylor is the second black world champion athlete, after bantamweight boxer George Dixon's title fights in 1890-91.

Nov. 15, 1899 -- Taylor knocks the 1-mile record down to 1:19.

September 1900 -- Thwarted in previous seasons by racism, Taylor finally gets to complete the national championship series and becomes American sprint champion.

October 1900-January 1901 -- Taylor performs in a vaudeville act with Charles "Mile-a-Minute" Murphy, racing on rollers on theater stages across Massachusetts.

March -June 1901 -- Taylor competes in Europe, which he had long resisted because his Baptist beliefs precluded racing on Sundays. He beats every European champion.
Thanks for throwing Major in there. Most have never heard of him. And he definitely warrants being in the conversation.
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Old 07-31-09, 07:02 PM
  #42  
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If you've never hear of Major Taylor then you might like to know that the original Madison Square Garden was built for track cycling, although I think it closed shortly before Major Taylor hit the scene...

Quite incredible to think of the place he played in sports and race.

-spence
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Old 07-31-09, 07:06 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by OrionKhan
Thanks for throwing Major in there. Most have never heard of him. And he definitely warrants being in the conversation.

Hey, you're welcome. He had obstacles barring his way to the starting line that L & G never dreamed of.


And after Taylor, I'll say Phinney. Davis Phinney. Not Taylor Phinney, not yet.

Then the other two, in no particular order.
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Old 07-31-09, 07:49 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Flash
I still can't believe that this TT time still stands today. I wonder which bike he rode that day, specs, etc.
It was a Bottechia TT Bike, you can see it at Velo Pasadena, the pic is 5th down on the left side of the page.. I think he was using a 56x11 gear at the top end.. Of course one wonders what he could have done with a wind tunnel tested bike and the lighter equipment of today..

https://velopasadena.com/page.cfm?pageID=115

Last edited by socalrider; 07-31-09 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 07-31-09, 07:53 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by baj32161
Please forgive the hyperbole but that is the single greatest TT I have ever seen, if not the greatest single race I have ever seen.

Cheers,

Brian J.

Here is the 89 coverage as well as most of the important stages from 1985-1986 and 1989

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayvwt...e=channel_page

https://www.youtube.com/profile?user=...09&view=videos
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Old 07-31-09, 10:15 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by OrionKhan
Thanks for throwing Major in there.
Four posts after I did.

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Old 07-31-09, 10:46 PM
  #47  
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Can I vote for Major Taylor?
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Old 07-31-09, 10:50 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by tcs
Four posts after I did.

tcs
Opps. Didn't even see your post above.
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Old 08-01-09, 09:42 AM
  #49  
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Old 08-01-09, 12:46 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by tcs
Four posts after I did.

tcs
Missed it too.
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