jonathanf2

On my road bike, I'm currently running 11 speed 105 5800 shifters, 5800 FD, R7000 50/34t crankset, R7000 RD with a 105 11-32t cassette. For some reason, I can't get the setup to shift smoothly throughout the entire 11 speed range. If I optimize shifting for the small cogs, the big cogs suffer and if I optimize for the big cogs, the small cogs suffer. I checked the derailleur hanger and it looks straight, also I recently just replaced the RD (it's brand new) with brand new shift cabling. Compared to my 10 speed gravel bike, that bike shifts perfectly throughout the entire range (with nice spacious gaps between cogs). The only difference I can see between the two bikes is that my gravel bike has a gentler shift cable line (less bend) to get to the RD. On my road bike, cabling routes towards the bottom bracket and is screwed in place through plastic inner cabling tubes before arriving to the RD. I'm wondering if that's a possible issue with too much bend or some other problem I haven't realized?

Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks!

Rolla

You can't reliably eyeball a derailleur hanger. Take it in for an actual alignment; it only takes a few minutes and should be very inexpensive. If nothing else, it will rule that out as the cause of your shifting problems.

jonathanf2

Does this sound more like a derailleur hanger alignment problem? Should I take it to my LBS for them to check it out?

Rolla

Yes; being able to shift well on some cogs but not others often points to an alignment issue. Again, it's nice to rule it out so you aren't needlessly chasing other things, like cable tension. While you're at the shop, have them measure the teeth and the chain for wear. This is also easy to do and shouldn't take long. At my shop, we'd do it while you wait or within a couple of hours.

jonathanf2

When I redid the RD cabling, I re-used the old inner plastic cable tubing for the internal routing. I was thinking of getting fresh tubing if that might cause some friction or other issues. I don't think it's the cassette teeth or chain either, both are new. If it is the derailleur hanger, do you think I'll need to order a new hanger? Thanks!

Rolla

It doesn't sound like a friction issue to me; that would affect shifting in every cog, not just some of them. But unless I have the bike in the stand in front of me, I can't diagnose this with any accuracy.

You can usually straighten a hanger if it's only slightly bent; we're talking millimeters, here. Should you need a new hanger, just be aware that there are dozens and dozens of them, and each is specific to the frame; you have to get the right one.

jonathanf2

I guess I'll drop my bike off at the LBS! I looked at my gravel and road bike hangers and honestly I couldn't see any difference. If there is a bend I'm sure it could be in the millimeters. I've already emailed the bike manufacturer, they have a list of hangers on their site and I wanted to confirm the right model before ordering. I'll probably still bring the bike to the shop anyways. It they can fix it, it probably wouldn't hurt to also have a spare hanger for later.

OshkoshBiker

I run a 105 eleven speed on my gravel bike and I have two observations about shifting issues like this. The first is the derailleur spring seems a little weak and has been since new. The other is that the cable housing wear has an impact on shifting to higher gears. My housing sticks a little and combined with a weak spring to start with seems make shifting adjustments a bit touchy. Hope this helps.

Rolla

Good call. It might not be the hanger, but that's a pretty good place to start. If it's ruled out, they can then look at the cables, B-tension, chain wrap, chain length, etc. The alternative is for you to futz around with all that stuff and still not solve the problem if the hanger is off.

Carrying a spare hanger is always a good idea. I wish manufacturers would supply one with their bikes.

squirtdad

fwiw I run 105 5800 11 speed (and have used the same set on 2 bikes a de rosa and my current 85 Miyata team). The team was aligned when I had a shop spread it to 130

shifting has been pretty much flawless.

I have more issues setting up the front and did find i needed to have the front cable really tight for the FD and really get the front parallel with the rings.

IIRC I had to have a far amount of tension on the rear cable at smallest cog

I have to replace cables soon so will soon do this again

delbiker1 

I have a 7000 group set and have the same experience with the RD cable needing to be really tight when the chain is on the smallest cog. I seem to remember having an issue getting the front to shift correctly, if might have been needing tightness on the cable, but not sure. This is with exposed cabling. I have had it for a good while and it has worked really well the whole time.

Koyote

I buy a spare hanger when I buy a new bike. It's a $25 insurance policy. In fact, I have sometimes carried a spare hanger during long gravel races.

jonathanf2

I ordered some new inner cable housing. The plastic inner tubing on my bike looks to be a little old (from 2017) so I'll try replacing that first just to make sure everything is fresh before bringing it to the LBS.
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I just checked my shifting and noticed it shifts fine until I get to a certain cog and then it seems to jump, I'm wondering if that might be a friction issue caused by the old internal plastic tubing?

I called my LBS and they said they can look at it. If the hanger is just slightly off they have a tool that can align it properly. I also removed the hanger to visually inspect it. If it's bent then it's definitely not something you can eyeball. The LBS said it could also just be a cross chaining issue with my setup, but on my 10 speed it can shift smoothly across the entire range with perfect gaps for each gear. Also I feel fairly confident in my road bike B-tension and chain length since I also built and tuned my gravel bike which shifts fine.

I'll first do the replacement inner tubing first (which it needs anyways) and if that doesn't solve it, I'll bring it to the LBS and also order the spare hanger for insurance! Thanks for the responses!

Rolla

Well, it seems that you'd like that to be the problem, but to me It seems unlikely that a friction issue would only affect one particular shift. But again, until I have it in the stand, I can't really hazard a guess.

Like I said, it's just something to rule out. The tool that measures it is also the tool that aligns it, so it's like a five-minute operation.

Cool. Just spitballin' here.

Sounds good. Sometimes the time it takes to bring it in and get it looked at is shorter than the time it takes to try a bunch of different things at home. A good shop mechanic has seen most problems enough times to be able to narrow things down pretty quickly.

Best of luck, and let us know what happens!

squirtdad

hard when it is a steel bike hanger part of the drop out forging..... would need to carry spare dropout and a mini oxy/gas set

SoSmellyAir

So the jumping when you get to a certain cog, this happens at a different cog depending on whether you optimize shifting for the big cogs or the small cogs, right? And does this jump happen only on a down shift, only on an up shift, or on both? When did this start happening? Have you previously run the same components without any shifting issues?

Rolla

Yep, I've had many bikes with built-in hangers. They're actually more durable than the replaceable ones, but you're SOL if they get bent or broken on a ride.

alcjphil

Some do. Years ago I worked for a company which distributed Look frames. The frames were shipped with a spare derailleur hanger along with all the other hardware needed to build the bikes up

jonathanf2

I was previously running 105 5800, but when I switched to the 105 R7000 the issued seemed more noticeable probably due to the tighter spring mechanism of the R7000 RD. On the stand it doesn't shift well, though on the road it does a bit better. I'm using my GRX 10 speed gravel bike for comparison and my 105 road bike is definitely nowhere near as smooth when it comes to shifting. On my 10 speed gravel bike, which is running a GRX 400 groupset with a 105 R7000 RD, it shifts up and down the gear range with no skipping or rubbing at each shift.

Also I'm wondering if the issue could be with my 105 5800 rear shifter?

SoSmellyAir

Ah, now I know why.

No, the problem is with your new RD-R7000.

The RD-R7000 is Shimano's new(er) Shadow RD, which has a different profile than your RD-5800. Compare the respective locations and angles of the barrel adjusters in each rear derailleur. In the RD-5800, the barrel adjuster is located closer to the ground, and the shifter cable and housing enters the barrel adjuster at an angle roughly parallel to the ground. In the RD-R7000, barrel adjuster is located further to the ground, and the shifter cable and housing enters the barrel adjuster at a much steeper angle. If the shifter cable exits the frame at the junction of the right chain stay and right seat stay (like it does in my Cannondale Synapse), the housing forms a much, much tighter loop with a RD-R7000 than a RD-5800, which adversely impacts shifting. (That was why I had to return a RD-R8000 and search high and low for a RD-6800.)

trailangel

No point in removing the hanger and inspecting it. Even a new hanger would need to be mounted and aligned using tool while it's on the bike.

jonathanf2

I read about issues regarding this and my older 5800 RD cable was much longer. I found using the the supplied RD cable that came with the R7000 was a much more appropriate fit. I had the same issues with my 5800 RD, but now they're just more pronounced with R7000. Previously I just tuned it where it shifted better on the big cogs, since I do mostly climbing.

Anyways I figure it's best I try an address the issue now since I do have another bike to fall back on. Also I won't know what the problem is until I bring it to the LBS, unless I do the tear down myself. I'm also probably going to order a new derailleur hanger just to be on the safe side. I'm not sure if I'll be able to find parts for this bike much longer, so it's probably best I just order a spare.

SoSmellyAir

In that case, do you have another 11 speed cassette to try?

I no longer use the 105 (CS-5800) 11-32 cassette which came with my road bike; you can have it if you want. I don't do as anywhere near as much climbing as the rest of you guys in the SoCal sub-forum. Although SoCal gas is so expensive nowadays that you can probably buy a 105 cassette with the roundtrip gas money.

jonathanf2

I tried two different 11-32t 11 speed cassettes and shift performance is similar. I dropped the bike at the LBS today. The mechanic mentioned there could be issues with the shift cabling getting tangled/rubbing inside the frame causing friction, but I did use the inner plastic tube to guide the shift cable directly through the down tube. Also I used brand new shift wire. My main concern is finding out if the hanger is slight bent. If so hopefully they can fix it.

jonathanf2

The LBS called, they said the hanger was super bent! Wow, no way I would have noticed. Also they said my internal routing is a mess, so I'll just have them do everything in one go. They said everything should be 100% once they're done. Thanks for all the help everyone!