ObsessedBike

Hi Folks -
Long time lurker, first time poster here.

As a West Michigan 'casual' roadie (2500 miles this season; 16 mph average; 200 lbs), I am looking for a new steed that can carry me through the winter and add some versatility.

I currently have a Carbon Synapse. I love its handling and speed with a blend of comfort, but it's no utility bike. No room/mounts for racks/fenders, and a 25mm max tire clearance. I took 2 spills with it last week (got pushed off road, ran parallel to curb and fell into brush; Slipped on a corner in a freshly paved parking lot during a sprinkle), and have decided it's about time to retire it for the season. Cheers to making it further into the year, as I normally quit fighting the 'cold' by mid Oct.

I'm looking for a second bike. I've tried a friends' fat bike quite a bit and don't think it's for me, but I'm open to anything. I do have some preferences, though.

-Cheap studded tire option (not an option with fat bikes - 300+ for a pair worth having)
-Drop Bars! I realize they're not always ideal, but I have a hard time accepting flat, bar ends, or trekking bars. I really love drops, regardless of how often the drops are used.
-Rack/fender mounts/options

I didn't like the fat bike, probably mostly because it was outside of its natural environment (mostly dry pavement), but I've ridden singletrack and, while I enjoy the option, I'm definitely a pavement guy. Something about the open road and that 'road bike feel'. Riding the fat bike on the road was soul-sucking. I also don't want the nightmare that is dealing with fat bike tires and pressure. Self-steer in 80+% of the available fat bike tires on the market when below 15 PSI, expensive replacements, etc.

I could probably go on, but I doubt most of this will even be read
So - what is everyone else using for a year-round commuter? Is a cyclocross/'gravel grinder' bike acceptable for urban winter riding in a semi-maintained city road environment?

corrado33

I used a simple 90s mountain bike with studs for commuting the last two years. This year I'm buying a Surly cross check and putting an internal hub on it to carry me through the montana winter. (Yes with studded tires.)

Honestly though, if you want to commute/ride on the roads with your bike in the winter, buy a cyclocross bike and be done with it. It's pretty much what they're made for. Essentially a road bike but with more clearances for bigger tires and fenders. (Geometry is slightly tweaked, but it's close enough.)

Studded tires are the biggest "necessity" I'd say for winter commuting. They made my commute go from "ok kinda scary" to "time to fly to work." And no, homemade ones don't work nearly as well as the real ones. I wouldn't even bother. (I did bother once, when I first bought studs. Realized they were crap and bought real studded tires, never went back.)

EDIT: The Cross Check is identical to the straggler mentioned below except it doesn't support disk brakes. It's also a bit cheaper.

EDIT 2: If you end up going with a steel bike for a winter steed, you may want to prep it with some "Frame Saver" to prevent internal rust.

InTheRain

Surly Straggler is an option if you insist on drop bars:

Straggler | Bikes | Surly Bikes

I think I would rather have the disc brakes on the straggler over the cross check. Personally, I'd probably go for the 650b wheels and tires for winter commuting and trail riding.

mcours2006

Sounds like a cross bike with disk brakes would fit the bill nicely. I use a CX for a year round commuter, and for your needs--wider tires, fenders, rack, wet braking, you can't go wrong with it. You don't have to put CX tires on them either. They'll run fine with slicks or studs.

Mine has cantilever brakes, but if I were to buy another one it'd definitely have disk brakes.

ObsessedBike

Wow thank you guys so much! I was hoping I'd have some confirmations that a 'Cross bike will do me well for the winter. Everyone seems to tell me go fat... But I think these must be trail riders because they *seem* overkill to me (and I don't think I'm the right target audience as I don't grin while I ride these - I pant on the hills, and check my watch during the flats. Boring.)

Also, I'm kind of on the fence about discs. They've been a notorious pain in the butt for me to setup. They seem to either never want to stay centered or I have to set them up with a lot of slack/travel to make them absolutely silent. Noises bother me, especially when it's my brakes and I'm trying to battle a hill. I like the idea of simplicity of cant's, but I've also never had to work on those. Maybe the power will be so sucky in the winter I'll regret not going disc..

Anyways, how bad of an idea would this be? Save up to 60% off new Road Bikes - Gravity Liberty CX | Save up to 60% off new road bikes
It's cheap so I won't cry too much over its first few dings, and 8 speed parts are so cheap to replace that I won't lose sleep over maintenance either.
I have the know-how to setup bikes that come partially assembled. I don't mind supporting the LBS, but most I've looked at have Xbikes starting around 1200, which would be fine if it weren't going to be my winter beater. I've also considered getting a super nice Xbike and just swapping tires for the summer.. Not sure how I feel about that, but less bikes is nice in an apartment.

I'll end the rant again. Thanks so much for the responses thus far.

mcours2006

I don't have a lot experience setting up disk brakes. I've only worked on my son's MTB with disk brakes and they weren't too difficult.

Cantilever brakes are simple to set up and adjust. I've worked on a quite a few sets. The stopping power isn't on par with disks, especially in wet, so if you ride in the rain or snow, of if you do a lot ascending and descending, then it's something worth considering as it will save your rims.

For under $400, the BD bike is a great deal. Definitely worth considering as a winter beater bike.

PaulRivers

Fat Bikes are fun. They're the only kind of bike that's really good for offroad winter (snow) riding. The tire is so fat that even without studs you're fairly safe - other tires hit ice and go down fast, fat bikes on sheer ice go down slowly enough to get a foot down and avoid falling (source: trying it). You wouldn't want to ride one without studs on an ice skating rink, but for commuting without studs they'd be fine. They handle 6-12" of snow depending on snow consistency.

But they're also significantly slower, and have a very different "floaty" feel than skinnier tires.

I wrote a whole guide to winter tires:

Guide For Winter Bike Tires - Studded (Skinny) Tires, Fat Bikes
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/...fat-bikes.html

You need a bike that can take larger tires - ideally up to around 42c. Anything bigger than that doesn't cut through the snow as well.

I would definitely get fenders. Your tires will throw up the most noxious crud you can imagine from the road, and fenders keeps that from getting thrown onto you.

I personally prefer flat bars for winter riding. People ride curly bars on cyclocross bikes in the winter though. It has a lot to do with how much icy ruts and crap on the road you think you'll have to ride over. Straight bars are used on mountain bikes because it gives you a lot more leverage and control in dealing with riding over stuff on the road - for the same reason I prefer them for winter riding. But if your roads are well salted and plowed curly bars can be fine...though I'll warn you, if it snows then immediately freezes once the roads can be rough all winter. When you get one of those deep freeze winters I greatly prefer flat bars.

ObsessedBike

Thanks for all the info! You seem like you've been there, done that, and really prefer the fat bike. Would you say the same for riding pavement? While a cross bike 'checks all the boxes' of what I'm after, there also might be a little too much similarities to my road.. Then again, I wouldn't mind having 'one bike' either.

Decisions, decisions.
Here are two that I'm now considering:

Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Boris X9 SRAM
Save Up to 60% Off Disc Brake Road Bikes - Motobecane Omni Strada SPORT

I realize the mission commands suck and I'll have to replace them. Add ~+200 to the fat bike side..

tsl

I'm going into my tenth winter on my 2006 Trek Portland:


Pic from 2008. It now has different wheels with a dynamo hub up front powering a dynamo lighting system.

The model is no longer made, but it's essentially a commuterized disc-brake cross bike. Anything along those lines will do. In the three-seasons, it's not a half-bad roadie either. For several years it was also my club ride bike.

Regarding "cheap" studded snows: No. Just plain no.

It's a case of "buy nice or buy twice". The cheap ones have plain steel studs intended for off-road use. In commuting on pavement, you'll wear them out in weeks if not months. There's a reason why the cheap ones also sell restudding kits. But hey, if you want an ongoing winter project, you can re-stud your tires every few weeks. It'll keep you off the streets (in more ways than one).

In 700x35, the size typically used on commuterized cross bikes, look at the Schwalbe Marthon Winter, or the Nokian Hakkapeliitta W106. My Nokians are also entering their tenth winter. Still with all the original carbide studs.

The main difference is that the Schwalbes are intended for wet/dry roads with ice patches. They're not as good in snow and slush since the tread isn't as deep. The Nokians have deeper tread--better for snow and slush--but only half as many studs, and they're slower on bare pavement too.

1983

Gravel bikes, also.

HardyWeinberg

What about an aluminum synapse? Those have fender mounts. And I think the tire clearance is pretty wide on the disc models in particular.

1983

Disagree, after experience with cheap steel studs last winter. The did great, never lost a stud, and are in good enough shape to use this winter. It all depends on how often you use them and on what surface.

Mr Pink57

I wouldn't say you have to replace them for winter commuting. I would ride them specifically for commuting, let them wear out vs spending $200 on another set to wear them out.

I am not really sure what your budget is?

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...ng-bikes-v.htm
This is a solid option from bikesdirect also.

Me? I ride a Surly Ogre all year round, studs in winter slicks 3 seasons.
https://surlybikes.com/bikes/ogre

PaulRivers

Sorry, I actually did not mean to say that I prefer a fat bike, I'm thinking about one and find them very interesting (I've test ridden them). They have a number of advantages, and a number of disadvantages, compared to a bike with 30c-42c tires.

I wrote more about the differences in the link I posted. The drawbacks of a fat bike are that they're slower, more work to pedal, more expensive - and perhaps importantly given what you wrote - they have a very different "floaty" feel on any snow or ice. They don't have that "connected to the road" feel that you get with a skinnier tire.

But they're also about the only good choice for offroad riding, they handle more snow than a skinnier tire, and if the roads are in really bad shape are the only bike that can handle it. However, they still have a limit to what they can handle and can't handle everything - more than 6-12 inches of snow and they're still not going to work.

All that being said, I own a skinnier tired (35c) winter bike because it's faster, I'm not riding offroad, and I prefer a "connected to the road" feel when biking.

I don't really know anything about the bikes listed than you'd know by looking at them I'm afraid. I don't like to buy bikes online because I like to be able to test the fit, and look at the tire clearance in person.

mel2012

Can't really speak to the bike issue, but for cheap studded tires, I recommend bike-discount.de or bike24.com, especially if there's anything else you would be interested in ordering from them. They have great deals on Schwalbe Marathon spikes in a variety of sizes.

corrado33

So, using your own argument, what surfaces were you riding your cheap steel studs on? How often did you ride? I'm with TSL, buy nice tires or end up buying them twice. You can get a nice set of nokians at REI for $45-50 per tire. (With CARBIDE studs of course.) That's a lot cheaper than a hospital visit for a broken wrist. My nokians look BRAND NEW after 1.5 hard seasons on them. The majority of last winter they were ridden on wet asphalt as we didn't have a lot of snow/ice. I've seen the remnants of steel studded tires. The tires look barely used but the studs are worn down to be smooth. Useless.

To the OP regarding fat bikes. I wouldn't bother for a few reasons. People with fat bikes say that yes, they can handle slightly more snow than a normal mountain bike, but when asked if that's a good enough reason to buy a fat bike, most of them say no. It's not THAT much difference. They have fat bikes because they like the way they ride, not because they're the end-all be-all winter bike. Especially for commuting, a mountain/cross bike will be fine. If you're actually trying to ride off road in the winter with 3-6 inches of snow, a fat bike would work well, otherwise it's not necessary. Besides, you don't even know if you'll LIKE winter commuting.

I personally would LOVE to buy a fat bike, but not for general commuting, really just to mess around on.

Mr Pink57

^^Being one who does have a fat bike I would agree its not enough of a reason. The only time I actually commute on my fat bike is on a really really snowy day like a blizzard. Outside of that I use my studded 29x2 commuter for 99.9% of my getting around. Even then it would be only if I am going home right after work.

If you are going to backpack it then you will be fine, but if you want racks on anything larger than a 135mm offset rear its going to be an expensive endeavor. Also fenders I think and most would agree are a big part of making you happy especially in the winter. There is so much junk on the road be it God knows what or dirty water that can be avoided on you and your bike. There is a guy up here in MN doing really nice fat bike fenders, i have one for the front and might get a rear since my Pugsley has the mounts for it.

As for studded tires. Look used. I got my marathon winters for $50 for the SET and the guy used them one winter season. Also up here in MN during the winter bike expo at Freewheel bike they do BOGO 50% off all studded tires.

tjspiel

If you're going to only use them once in awhile during the winter then steel studs might make some sense. I commute 3 to 4 times a week on studded tires from December through March. Some years the season is shorter.

Regardless, most days there's a mix of bare pavement, ice, and snow. There will be some days where it's all snow. When used on pavement that frequently steel studs will wear flat by the end of a season. They may cost 1/3 to 1/2 less than carbide tipped tires but after a few years you will be losing money on them. I've had my Nokians for 5 years now and they're almost as good as new.

tjspiel

I got my most recent set from Freewheel in an end of season BOGO sale a few years ago. Doesn't help anyone now, but something to keep in mind in late March or early April. I'm sure they're not the only ones trying to get rid of winter stock that time of year.

fietsbob

700c studded tires tend to be wider so a frame with clearance for say a 42

with Also mudguards with generous clearance is a logical specification.

RubeRad

Looking at the BD links you sent, the Gravity looks I think fine, should suit your purpose if you get studded tires. The fatbike IMO is overkill, but if that's what you want. The Omnistrada, if your budget can swing it, I think looks hawt! Of course note that's a prepay, so it will still be a couple weeks if you need it right away. But you might also check out Moto Turino, $100 less and you'd be planning to replace tires with studded anyways.

tsl

When you have another nine years on them in daily commuting, averaging 600 miles a season, on asphalt in conditions like those in the background of my photo, come back and we'll compare notes. 'Kay?

wolfchild

I put my studded tires on in December and take them off in March. During those 4 months I put in about 1400 miles. A lot of riding is done on a mix of bare pavement and snow/ice. Carbide studded tires is are the only tires that will survive that type of abuse. Cheap steel studs would wear out in a few weeks.

Darth Lefty 

I just noticed the new fad for 27.5+ bikes with little or no suspension and 1x10 or 11 drivetrains. Man! Looks like a very versatile blend. It would have plenty of room for studs plus fenders at regular 27.5 and you can make it a hybrid with 29er wheels and slicks.

fietsbob

though they may cost a bit more than you wish , initially .. a quality tungsten steel studded tire is good for more than one year ..

I got my Suomi Nokian made in Finland tires in 1990, and when the weather puts ice and snow on the ground

I break out the bike I leave them on , pump up the tires and go.. they're still Good.