Rdytoroll

I wanted to upgrade the brake pads of my Scott Hybrid bike with V-brakes to Koolstop This is what I received from the vendor. Sorry about the size of the photos.





This is what I was expecting.to receive from the vendor These pads have a longer screw and additional spacers, same as my old pads. Are these pads interchangeable? Can I use the first set? I believe both of these are listed as for use with V brakes why the differences?

Andrew R Stewart 

Some confusion here as both images show what most would consider MtB pads. I can't say if the pads' threaded stud lengths with the current V brakes are longer than usual. The Trem "MtB pads".is pretty lame a marketing reference as there are quite a few types of pad attachment designs that have been used on MtB over the years. Perhaps if there was a photo of the current ones on the bike we might be able to give far more specific advice. Andy

Rdytoroll

These are the old pads currently on the bike, they fit fine. Wish I knew how to size images.

Rdytoroll

Updated my prior posts

sweeks

The shoes in your first image have a spherical surface built into the carrier. This allows the bolt to be a bit shorter, but adjustment should be basically the same as the other shoes that have the more traditional (in my experience) pairs of spherical washers.

EDIT: With the Kool Stop shoes in your first image, the brake arms will also sit closer to the rim than the other style. This should be fine as long as the brake arms aren't restricted by a fender or something. I went out and took a couple images of two of my bikes. The Kool Stop shoes we're talking about are on my folding bike, where they work fine. The blue shoe in the other image has the standard pair of spherical washers.
Sorry they're so dirty... "working bikes".


See how close the shoe carrier is to the brake arm. The carrier has a spherical convex surface that mates with the concave surface of the washer seen between the carrier and the arm.



The shoe here has an "internal" carrier. See how much farther the shoe is from the brake arm.

Leisesturm

Vendor screwed up. I wouldn't try using the short screw pads. I use the long screw kind shown in the picture, and even then I usually have to grab an additional thin spacer (thicker than a washer) from the outgoing pair, so the pads don't dive under the rim at full contact. Not judging, but stuff like this, buy local, that way if/when there is a screw-up, no matter whose fault, you just are out the time it takes to make a return trip. If you really must mail-order, these guys are good at it. On trial (awaiting delivery), are these guys.

Rdytoroll

Hello fellow Chicagoan! So you are saying I should be able to use the ones with only 3 spacers? I think they will fit but I will have to adjust my brake cable quite a bit. Maybe that's not an issue, maybe the 3 spacer model is actually an improvement?

Rdytoroll

I agree, I would feel better using the "correct" model.

sweeks

I assume you're talking to me. I don't remember how I came to acquire the Kool Stop shoes I have on my folder. I seem to remember being puzzled by them at first, but they work fine. The brake arms don't bind the fenders. I will look for some better images.
Where are you in the NW suburbs? I'm in Mundelein.

Rdytoroll

Yes I was. I'm in Schaumburg. I appreciate the advise, those may be OK but I'm going to feel better having the "correct" size on the bike.

Rdytoroll

Sweeks, Thanks for providing the photos. I recently converted my Scott Sub 20 hybrid to a mid-drive E-Bike so I want to improve the brakes. Loving the converted bike so far.

tyrion

I think they're missing some spacers. Was the packaging open when you received it?

Rdytoroll

Thanks, but no. Packages were sealed. The screw of those brake pads is also too short so can't add more spacers even if I wanted to.

tyrion

So they took out some spacers, cut the screws down, and perfectly resealed the packaging. Interesting.

Leisesturm

No, those are just a different (cheaper) kind of v-brake pad that has no ability to 'angle' the pads to (try to) eliminate squeal. Ever since the ball and socket type of long arm pad came into existence, the previous kind kind of fell off the radar. The ball/socket kind are all anyone ever sees. But if you had a pack of the things lying around and a live one on the hook ... a vendor with no ethics ... no, you are never supposed to ascribe to malice, that which can be ascribed to stupidity ...

sweeks

Actually, they're not missing any parts. The attachment bolt's head has a convex hemispherical surface on its underside. This mates with the inside surface of the carrier, which is also hemispherical, but concave. The outside of the carrier is convex and mates with the concave surface of the single hemispherical washer. The bolt attaches to the brake arm at a right angle... no swiveling. The carrier is able to pivot a few degrees in all directions when the bolt is loosened. I thought I had a spare set I could photograph but I don't. Hope this makes sense.

sweeks

No, these have the ability to pivot. I may have to take one off my bike and make images of it.

tyrion

We'll need a video to see the actual pivoting.

Rdytoroll

Are you saying the shorter screw ones are an old design? These Koolstop E-bike pads seem pretty new and they use the short screw also.

Rdytoroll

For all I know the shorter screw with only three spacers may actually be a new improved design. It's pretty common and Koolstop even calls it version 2
Maybe I'll just call Koolstop and see what they have to say.
https://www.modernbike.com/product-2...MaAk6fEALw_wcB

sweeks

Hold on... working on an explanation.

Rdytoroll

This is not how I thought I would spend my Saturday night. Sweeks, that bike that you installed the shorter screw pads on, did it have the longer screw type pad with the additional spacers prior to that? Is the shorter screw model working well for you?

I'm starting to think they are fine for all V-Brakes.
https://www.koolstop.com/english/pdf/...readed_Tec.pdf

sweeks

OK... I went out and removed one of my brake shoes to attempt to convince all the doubters. See each image for a more detailed explanation. I'm not going to make a video.
The only real advantage I can see with this design is the (very minor) weight saved by the elimination of a washer. As I mentioned earlier, the closer the brake arms sit to the wheel the more likely there could be interference with a fender, or maybe the mechanical advantage of the brake arms. On the other hand, I find the slimmer appearance of the overall brake assembly pleasing. FWIW.


Here's the Kool Stop shoe assembly expanded. The concave spherical washer that mates with the carrier is seen, but it's not clear how the carrier can pivot. Stay tuned!



Here's the shoe exploded. The head of the bolt, normally hidden by the shoe, can be seen. It has a convex profile. It's also longer in one plane so it won't rotate. The carrier is convex on its inner aspect. But wait! There's more!



Here's a better view of the convex underside of the bolt and the inside of the carrier. There are only a few degrees of pivoting possible, but enough to achieve toe-in of the shoe.



Here is the Kool Stop shoe next to a typical one-piece Shimano shoe. I've left a gap where the brake arm would be, showing that the shoe can sit closer to the brake arm with the Kool Stop shoe. Shimano also makes shoes with replaceable inserts... a nice feature.

Leisesturm

Hmmm. Makes sense ... brake squeal is caused by vibration in the brake arms. Sufficiently robust brake arms would not need the sophisticated ball/socket mechanism in the long bolt design that actually does jack all to eliminate squeal. Ask me how I know. The Tektro RX-5 mini-v's and probably most mini-v designs would resist brake arm judder and could work with the short bolt pads. In fact, some Cantilever brakes use Road Bike pads because they have no need for the ball/socket kind because brake arm judder is not an issue with those short beefy brake arms.

sweeks

Yes, these have replaced the shoes with the longer screws with no problems. The fenders do not interfere with these shoes.
Hahaha... not how I would spend my Saturday night either! Hope I have convinced the doubters.