globecanvas

My NP for our local group ride, at least in midsummer, is basically the same as for races. But it's different, more time in Z3/4, very little time in ZOMG, and generally efforts are sustained just until they start to hurt, as opposed to intervals and races where efforts are sustained until the ragged edge. So like TKP said, a bunch of 1 minute Z5 efforts which just doesn't amount to the same type of concentrated training effect. Definitely some training effect, just not as much as structured intervals. On the other hand it can be really fun, which is the opposite of intervals. And a fast group ride is the best possible training for holding wheels at speed.

jsk

I would agree the fast group rides tend to be better for maintaining fitness than developing it, unless you're one of the weaker riders in the group and then it can be really good. But there's also the fact that riding fast in a group is good skills work, and allows riding at speeds you couldn't maintain solo, so I think there can be benefit to that. Plus it's more fun, which can give you a bit of a mental break as opposed to dreading that VO2Max interval workout.

I favor structured interval work earlier in the season and/or when I need to work on specific areas of fitness. Later in the season I like to get a group ride during the weak just to break up the monotony of solo training.

hack

I do structured training, but mix in a group ride at least once a week if I'm not racing. Helps keep me sharp on the bike and the rides are usually dynamic enough that I can mix in whatever I feel like I need that day.

rubiksoval

I did as many group rides as possible as a newer rider. Up to 4 per week while I was making my way through the 4s and 3s. And I'll contend that that was by far the best training I got and could have gotten at that time, because the group ride was a bunch of cat 1s/2s/3s and we'd/they'd tear each other to pieces on parts and do full on sprints at other points. At both times I really honed in on the ability to hide and surf and get in position and time that critical push really well. It paid off dividends in races and I had many races that weren't nearly as hard as those group rides.

Now I only do very select group rides with other cat 1s and 2s. When I hit them tired, it's a good way to dig deeper than I'd do on my own. Plus our rides are always on/ON so when we're not going full out, we're still going steady. Very little to no down time or recovery. I've stopped going to other group rides because there was so much down time that ended up just being wasted and I could get much more bang for the buck on my own.

mattm

New bike finally, feels good to really ride again.

At first was thinking, "I shouldn't really sprint, want to work the kinks out first." Eventually sprinted. Then it was "I shouldn't do the Weds hammer ride, want to work the kinds out." I went anyway. Then it was "I'll just sit on the back, don't want the chain to come off in a sprint or whatever." Sprinted anyway (and won).

The ride was a little harder than usual, but I felt surprisingly good given my lack of real training the last two weeks.

hack

Wednesday night hammer fest ... seems the local elite that aren't at Gila came out to do a Redlands leg check. It was pretty rough.

aaronmcd

Nothing today, or yesterday, or the day before, or the day before. Maybe, just maybe I'll get in a tad tomorrow. Or not. Then nothing on Friday. PE exam. Yuck. Race on Sunday, but due to all the NOT RIDING I may just say screw feeling fresh for the races and do a nice big fun tour of the peninsula on Saturday. Idk. Hard to think about bikes with the big test looming.

Ttoc6

In regards to group rides for training. I spent all winter on the trainer, but the body can only tolerate so much. I would do the Saturday hammerfest (the Rocket Ride in Seattle area) and then Sunday team ride. Both of these would be ~3-4 hours each counting ride to and home from these rides. I basically only skipped these when the weather was particullarly bad. I always feel it's good to do some intensity to stave off burn out over the winter. It also helped me to not be as sketchy in pack riding once race started since I was basically doing a "race" every Saturday over the winter.

Anyways.. New trainer showed up today. Spent some time setting up the Kickr2 and then did a 1 hour Over-Under ride. Definitely helped to confirm what I had been thinking about my power meter reading low. Kickr2 had an average power of 220, Vectors had an average of 198. Probably going to be moving on from the vectors soon. Sick and tired of inconsistent readings after all these years. Suggestions? Almost picked up a used SRM off of facebook the other day, but not sure if I want to commit to a crank based yet. Anyone use the Powertap p1s?

mattm

You'll be fresh for the race - probably a good thing!

Good luck on the exam.

Wylde06

I think it depends on the group.


The guys I ride with are all 2's and 3's. Depending on what wheel I'm on, I could doing 300+ just stay on wheels. Riding with these guys, for me, has helped me immensely with fitness and bike handling. The other day my normalized power was 260 for close to an hour..something I don't typically do on my own no matter what workouts im doing. Nothing has been better for my racing on the weekends then riding with these guys


The other groups around here though, I would rather ride on my own than with them. If I was to only ride with those guys my fitness would decline.

mike868y

What makes you think the kickr isn't reading high?

PepeM

Sounds like he already had some doubts about the Vectors, but I would trust those before the trainer.

mattm

That's what I was wondering.

Sounds like we need a tie-breaker.

caloso

3'+3's. Thinking my FTP might be set a little low and it's time for a retest. This is a good problem to have.

scheibo

I got P1s a couple weeks ago. No problems yet. I have Vectors on my race bike and after spending a full work day calibrating them I haven't touched them in 1.5 years because i'm too scared of messing it up. Too stressful. I've changed the P1s between my other bikes pretty much every ride so far, and I dont really notice huge discrepancies - they read in line with my Vectors.

I've got a DZero on order though, and if I ever have to remove the Vectors from my race bike i'll probably switch to a crank based PM before i put those back on. But the P1s so far seem to deliver on the promise of an easily exchangeable PM. Bulky looking pedal and weird cleats though.

wktmeow

Tried to do a 2x8 test yesterday with the new PM. We had free chinese food for a lunch meeting and I totally overdid it, so I was nauseous most of the afternoon leading up to it. Went out way too hard on the 1st and ran outa gas 20 seconds before the 8 mins was up, got 4:30 into the 2nd one and just gave up. Not sure if I could have done better or not without a belly full of heavy food.

Anyway, 340w avg for the 7:40 before I blew, 330 avg for the full 8 mins, and then 345w avg for the 4:30 of the 2nd set before I quit. Guesstimating FTP at ~290w for now on the new power meter, compared to having it set to 315 on the Stages, but I'd like to do a full 20 min test at some point to confirm. I'm fairly sure that I could have done at the very least 330 for both efforts if I'd have paced the first better and not been full, so I think 290 is conservative according to this testing protocol, but I'm fine with keeping it a little on the low end until I can test again.

Some anaerobic stuff tomorrow, then riding to Disneyland on sat! Sunday is some big gear work, which I'll probably add some z2 miles to, so I should end up with another decent week to pair with last weeks' 14 hours, then back to racing the following weekend at Dana Point. 30+ 3/4 race should be good for me And will likely follow it up with the E2/3.

caloso

Are you actually riding to the park itself?

wktmeow

I got the DFour so I could swap between my TT bike and Road bike (and subsequently between standard and compact chainrings). In the week or so I've had it so far, its been rock solid. Whereas with the Stages I'd have days where I definitely felt like it was reading high (it'd show ~250w, which was z3 for me, and I'd feel like I was barely into an endurance pace), this one feels very consistent between rides. Did you opt for the carbon one? The aluminum price cut was tempting for sure.

wktmeow

Yep, wife and her dad are meeting me there and I'll drop off stuff & change in the car Should be about 95 mi or so of mostly flat along the coast. I'm throwing some compression shorts and socks in the car and some recovery mix for subsequent walking around.

scheibo

I bought it for my TT bike which is already SRAM Red and compatible so I just ordered the spider instead of the whole chassis. I don't plan on switching it between bikes - I figure my DZero and Vectors will be locked in and then the P1s on my spare bike can be the ones I remove so that I can have power with them when I travel. Right now, while I wait for the DZero to ship I'm just swapping the P1s between my spare and TT bike as needed.

caloso

Awesome. We used to visit my MIL in Irvine so I enjoyed riding up and down the OC coast, but I was never brave enough to ride into Anaheim

Ttoc6

To address the power concerns... Took a look. My data is actually corroborating. The problem being that I get a TONNN of power drops from my vectors that is skewing averages and maxs. It may have been reading a little low yesterday, but I moved to a different bike today (Yay, I got my carbon race bike back from the shop). IT seems that the lines are matching up, albeit with a lot of zeros. See below for my ride from yesterday. The smoother line is from the KICKR.



Anyways, back on the trainer today due to limited time available. 3x12 at sweet spot since it is tapering time anyways. To justify why this bothers me so much.. training peaks calculated the TSS from the kickr to 63 and the TSS from the vectors to be 55. Big difference. Since it looks like I'm getting the same~ish numbers and the kickr seems to be recording better, I'm going to be using it for calculations.

Ttoc6

This is my experience with the vectors as well. Good to hear the consistency is a strong point on the p1 pedals. Will look into pricing for those soon. I really just want consistent numbers when I swap.

TheKillerPenguin

Unstructured structure stuff. 1x8 tempo, 1x2' max (8w/kg woooo!), 1x8 tempo, and like 4 more 2-3min vo2 type controlled efforts. I feel fuggin great, so glad I'm over whatever it was I had!

scheibo

I mean, I've got 700km on them, so there still could be kinks. But I'm pretty crazy about these sort of things (OK, crazy about most things), so I imagine if there were serious issues I would have found them.