Bulldogsprinter

This question is for the the mere mortals, ie. amateurs. I know a sub 1:02 is good time if you're a pro but what is a good time for "normal" people?
I'm a road sprinter/classics rider who's thinking about switching to track. I've done two race kilos, my bike is a 2011 Trek tk3, my kilo set-up is zipp vuka alumina, Miche pistard tubulars wheels, 96inch nominal gearing(might do better with 98, Giro air attack helmet and short sleeve skin suit. The frame is too short for me, so my position on the bike is not as aero as it could be and I feel I can't all my power transferred to the pedals. My first time was 1:12,47 and second 1:11,86, I feel that I should be able to get a sub 1:10 on a good day this season and think I have potential for a lot faster, with some track specific training. The track is a 400m concrete outdoor velodrome. Those rides were done after about 2 weeks on a track bike.

queerpunk

well.... what do you mean "good"?

i'd say that where you are, with the gear you are using, you're in a pretty good spot.

for reference, the 2013 usa national championships (while pretty underattended) saw the top ten doing 1:03 to 1:16. the two years before that saw a lot of people around the 1:10 bubble, with the winners doing around 1:04.

carleton

Those are good times for a local/regional level racer.

You'll need to be under 1:10 to be an OK national level rider in the US. Podium is 1:05 and under in the US.

Here are the results from 2013 Elite Track Nationals (timed): The Official Website - USA Cycling

Understand that going from 1:11 to 1:10 is literally exponentially harder than going from 1:12 to 1:11 because of wind resistance:

Bulldogsprinter

Cheers. Yeah I know jumping to sub 1:10 is not something easily done, but the feeling I have from training and doing those two races is that I could go faster. The first one I had a dreadful start and didn't know what I was doing, sat down after about 120m and continued accelerating seated, the second one I had a much better start, but I had tweked my position a little bit and hadn't had time to test it and felt I could produce the power I should. I were a lot happier with the first one as I felt I had given everything, the second I finished feeling I still had something left. I will do some proper gym work this off season, haven't done that since I started road racing, have my back ground in martial arts.

carleton

You will get faster as you tweak the various things you've mentioned. Then when/if you focus your training, you'll gain time there, too.

There are generally 2 ways to ride a kilo: As a long sprint or as short pursuit. Big guys with raw power like the former option. Slow twitch guys like the latter option.

As recent events have shown over the last couple of years, the enduros (like Ed Clancy GBR) are beating the pure sprinters in the Kilo.

Also, only mad men enjoy the Kilo

Bulldogsprinter

Well I'm nuts so I qualify in that I hit it hard from the start and try my best not to pass out before I hit the end, fast twitch all the way. I've lost 5-10kg of muscle riding road the last three years, but I'm still more of a muscle car than a diesel family wagon. And I love the pure hell of the kilo, the reason I'm not happy with the 1:11 is that I kind of just faded towards the end, when I do it right it's not so much fading as just drowning in lactic acid.

carleton

Good luck. By the way, you'll learn that the worst way to train for The Kilo is by doing Kilos.

gtrob

what would a weekly plan with a priority focus on the kilo look like? Sorry to hijack, and yes that is a good time but its all relative.

I imagine the mileage would be pretty low, although there would still be some aerobic efforts that a sprinter wouldn't see. I think the start/first lap is going to benefit from the gym more than anything, and your splits could maybe tell you where you most likely to gain time (although on a 400 not sure you get much data there).

carleton

It depends on the time of year. Seriously.

Every kilo plan I've seen has been an annual plan based on periodic training.

Bulldogsprinter

So how would you advice training for a kilo? Starts and flying efforts 800-1000m?

carleton

That's like asking "How do I train to play Football/Soccer?" There is a lot more to it than kicking balls.

If you do a Kilo the normal all-out sprinter way, it basically has 3 stages:

- The Start
- Top Speed
- Hanging on for dear life (you may have visions of various deities if you do it right)

How and when to train those aspects is the hard part. It is subject to a lot of debate and various schools of thought. That's why I mentioned that some programs cover an entire year and some even multiple years of training.

Then there is the personal aspect. Taylor Phinney didn't train for his kilos the way that Chris Hoy did. They also didn't execute them in the same manner.

So, I wrote all of that to express that I can't offer any training advice for the Kilo.




...but, if you are a new track racer and/or if you are just reaching a higher level of fitness, your kilo will improve based on becoming a better track cyclist. This is why cyclists from other genres do well early on in their track careers...it's because they have already been tuning their bodies and engines.

gtrob

Carleton stop holding out, just tell us the training interval that will make me go 1min flat already!!!


As simple as I can make it, from everything I have read that I agree with: Make your training as specific to the racing you want to do as you can, becoming more specific as you approach the race.


I also liked this breakdown

CYCLING PERFORMANCE TIPS -

if you break the 1000 meter TT into its component parts:

• Start (initial power)
• Acceleration to ~ 250m
• Max Speed 250-750m
• Speed maintenance/endurance 750-1000m

you are able to add specific training for each part of the event

Baby Puke

The template above is what you have to cover in your training, and as Carleton says, it will change in different parts of the year. Early on, or in the off season, I've been doing more gym work, some longer rides on the road, and longer efforts on the track, often in over-gear.

Just as an example, this has been my in-season weekly routine this year:
Sunday:
Power efforts at the track (flying 1k/500m, rolling 666/500m, lactate tolerance intervals
Monday:
125m starts on mostly on sub-race gear
Tues:
Gym, high volume
Weds:
Recovery
Thus:
Undergeared flying 100m at the track, full recovery
Friday:
Gym, intensity (1 set of the biggies plus cleans)
Saturday:
Recovery

In the last month I've tapered off the gym work completely and moved the starts day to Tuesday. On this program I've cut nearly a second off my kilo PB at our local track. Just an example program for you.

gtrob

What kind of times do you see on your splits compared to your flying lap? Probably not relevant on a 400m, but on a 200-250, what does lap 2, 3, 4 look like compared to your flying lap?

Baby Puke

Are you asking about kilo race splits vs. times taken on flying efforts in training? If so, I can't really answer that as I rarely have someone time my training efforts. If it's a stand alone flying 500, for example (and not a lactate interval on timed rest), I just make sure I leave it all on the track. On the intervals, you've got to pace it such that you are just able to finish the last one reasonably strong.

Quinn8it

Now you tell me!!!!

carleton

Hahahaha!

JMR

No one enjoys the Kilo... some people just put up with it 'cause they are good at it!

JMR

Quinn8it

I like it