Still Fuming and attitude towards female riders (maybe?)
09-28-19, 10:06 PM
#26
Senior Member
You are joking right? Not saying that a woman shouldn't be able to go out and not be hit on, but truly everywhere a woman goes throughout the day, she is probably being hit on. Not to burst the bubble, but some guys (not all) that are nice to women are really thinking, "How can I get her number?...if she is nice back then maybe I got a shot...". I have seen this happen so often you can literally sit in a grocery store or the Apple Store and watch the guys hit on women all day...99.9% of it is harmless and no big deal, but every once in a while it gets creepy.
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09-29-19, 12:40 AM
#27
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I do see "flirting," but not innocent or honorable. More like cutting her out from her safe group and negging her. Like jrhoneOC above says, this **** goes on all the time every day.
This has nothing to do with bicycles, really.
This has nothing to do with bicycles, really.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
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09-29-19, 09:42 AM
#29
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10-09-19, 12:46 AM
#30
Firm but gentle
Bobby Kennedy had a joke:
What’s the first thing you hear when you get to hell? OK, everyone form into small groups!
What’s the first thing you hear when you get to hell? OK, everyone form into small groups!
10-09-19, 01:42 AM
#31
Senior Member
Sounds like a well organized and led ride! That's pretty sweet. That sucks about mansplainin' roadie dude.
That said, I think there's a lot of defense for mansplainin' dude in this thread. The point isn't that he's the devil incarnate, but he was for sure pulling out the most common, banal, low intensity sexist crap that women swim in at nearly all times. I want to encourage you to tell him off or try to have a conversation about his behavior, but that's a lot of work to ask women to do to fix men's problems, particularly considering too many men are insecure and violent bags of crap. It might be a good idea to tell one of the reasonable dudes about how this guy came off to you--honestly, I think men like this sometimes unfortunately hear feedback about their behavior better from other men.
Hope you have a lot more fun riding. Also don't get turned off on road riding if you're interested in it, my experience has been that organized road riders often do a very good job at both gender inclusion and accommodating varying experience and fitness levels. Average social awareness and skills seems pretty similar between the two groups in my experience--that's to say, they vary.
That said, I think there's a lot of defense for mansplainin' dude in this thread. The point isn't that he's the devil incarnate, but he was for sure pulling out the most common, banal, low intensity sexist crap that women swim in at nearly all times. I want to encourage you to tell him off or try to have a conversation about his behavior, but that's a lot of work to ask women to do to fix men's problems, particularly considering too many men are insecure and violent bags of crap. It might be a good idea to tell one of the reasonable dudes about how this guy came off to you--honestly, I think men like this sometimes unfortunately hear feedback about their behavior better from other men.
Hope you have a lot more fun riding. Also don't get turned off on road riding if you're interested in it, my experience has been that organized road riders often do a very good job at both gender inclusion and accommodating varying experience and fitness levels. Average social awareness and skills seems pretty similar between the two groups in my experience--that's to say, they vary.
10-09-19, 06:25 AM
#32
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It was well organized, and fun, aside from that one dude. I haven’t been back to another group ride, there have been other events out of town that I’ve attended. I’m registered for a skills clinic this weekend. We’ll see if he’s there. If yes, I’ll just stay away.
I have been interested to read the reactions, though. Perhaps I sometimes read more into things in terms of sexism, but I work in a male-dominant field, so I think I have a pretty good read on things. I generally let things go without much thought unless it’s blatant. This was more subtle. It’s just really annoying that women need to even consider gender at all on a group ride.
I have been interested to read the reactions, though. Perhaps I sometimes read more into things in terms of sexism, but I work in a male-dominant field, so I think I have a pretty good read on things. I generally let things go without much thought unless it’s blatant. This was more subtle. It’s just really annoying that women need to even consider gender at all on a group ride.
10-09-19, 09:19 AM
#33
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Good thing this wasn't a work environment. Otherwise you would be running straight to HR, complaining over some harmless conversation with a male co-worker... effectively ruining his employment and career.
HTFU
HTFU
10-09-19, 09:49 AM
#34
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10-09-19, 10:09 AM
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If this happens enough, maybe men will start realizing what comes out of their mouths matters.
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10-09-19, 10:46 AM
#36
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10-09-19, 11:09 AM
#38
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You are overreacting. Next time open your mouth and say "leave me alone" and then if he/she/they persists, you could come here and complain. Your recollection of your experience just reads like passive-aggressiveness with post-process irritation for no reason.
The middle group goes on and then it's me, the teenager, the roadie, and the sweep. We're all pretty evenly matched, and take turns in the lead. I joke to the sweep that he's never going to take us out again. He laughs and says that's not true. He's having a great time and getting to practice his coaching skills. The roadie asks if the sweep and I are married. We say no, we are friends though, and and he says to me "Oh, I thought maybe you came on the ride because you were married to to the sweep." (As if I wouldn't just be out on my own?)
Then the roadie starts asking me questions. How old am I? How long have I been riding? Suggests that perhaps I would be better off on a road bike "where you can see what's coming up and prepare for it more." Then says "I see that you can get over the hard stuff, then you stop. You need to keep going." Keep in mind that he 1) had the opportunity to leave our group 2) isn't any better than we are. I resist the urge to say "At least I haven't crashed, but I see your leg's a scratched up mess" (that would be uncharitable, I know)
Then the roadie starts asking me questions. How old am I? How long have I been riding? Suggests that perhaps I would be better off on a road bike "where you can see what's coming up and prepare for it more." Then says "I see that you can get over the hard stuff, then you stop. You need to keep going." Keep in mind that he 1) had the opportunity to leave our group 2) isn't any better than we are. I resist the urge to say "At least I haven't crashed, but I see your leg's a scratched up mess" (that would be uncharitable, I know)
10-09-19, 11:18 AM
#39
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NEVER discount someone else's feelings regarding a stimulus; they feel what they feel and you're not in a position to tell them otherwise.
Instead: Accept their feelings, and ask them why something makes them feel that way. If they can answer, try to empathize from their perspective ("I would be annoyed too if someone was offering advice outside of a relationship where that's ok"). IF they ask for your opinion, you can share it. Sometimes people just want to be heard and validated, and it's kind of hard to get.
Trust me, I look to criticize and solve problems that aren't mine all the time, but I'm learning.
10-09-19, 11:31 AM
#40
Senior Member
Don’t miss out on opportunities just because of one bad apple.
10-09-19, 11:53 AM
#41
☢
I think most of us know what its like being in a relatable uncomfortable situation, and its not pleasant. I too am passive-aggressive, but I would have said something, and wouldn't say its for no reason. Those irritants, build up.
Instead: Accept their feelings, and ask them why something makes them feel that way. If they can answer, try to empathize from their perspective ("I would be annoyed too if someone was offering advice outside of a relationship where that's ok"). IF they ask for your opinion, you can share it. Sometimes people just want to be heard and validated, and it's kind of hard to get.
Trust me, I look to criticize and solve problems that aren't mine all the time, but I'm learning.
10-09-19, 12:01 PM
#42
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10-09-19, 12:14 PM
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I went on a group ride a few weekends ago to open a new trail system. I actually prefer to ride solo or with close friends, but I decided to step out of my comfort zone and give it a try. I'm an ok, but not great rider. I prefer the trails I l know well, and these were new, plus they start with a climb (not my best skill). I emailed the ride leader ahead of time to make sure that all skills levels would be welcome. Ride leader say "Yes! We're going to split into a beginner and an advanced group. Please come!" The person I'm planning to go with wakes up with a head cold and decides to stay home, but I decide to go anyway. (Challenge by choice and all, right?) So I get there and see a few people I know. There's three female riders out of the dozen-ish who are there. Myself, a teenager (who I know slightly, our daughters are friends) and an accomplished trail rider (who I also know, she's taken me out a few times to coach me). There's also an older dude on borrowed MTB who mentioned he's primarily a roadie, and this is his first group trail ride. I try to be friendly and make conversation telling him that I am thinking of getting a road bike.
We start. I'm near the back with the teenager, the roadie, and and the sweep (who I know pretty well). We climb and climb. The teenager gets off to walk. The roadie says "OMG! This is so different from road biking!" and gets off to walk. I get off to walk. The sweep (who knows the trials well) is very encouraging and is calling out warnings. (Mud ahead! Rollover to your right! Stream crossing soon! Log bridge! The best line is to the left! Shift! Steep hill! Sharp curve halfway down!) The faster riders stop at an intersection and wait for the slower ones.
We all catch up and decide to break into three groups. I always knew that I was going to go in the slow/beginner/shorter ride group. The fastest group takes off. The middle group has some conversation about who is continuing with them and who is breaking off to loop around and go back to the trailhead. We all ride together for a while. I get in front of a guy I don't know and apologize when I slip in the mud and make him stop behind me. He's super nice "Don't worry, you're fine. My wife won't even get on a mtb."
The middle group goes on and then it's me, the teenager, the roadie, and the sweep. We're all pretty evenly matched, and take turns in the lead. I joke to the sweep that he's never going to take us out again. He laughs and says that's not true. He's having a great time and getting to practice his coaching skills. The roadie asks if the sweep and I are married. We say no, we are friends though, and and he says to me "Oh, I thought maybe you came on the ride because you were married to to the sweep." (As if I wouldn't just be out on my own?)
Then the roadie starts asking me questions. How old am I? How long have I been riding? Suggests that perhaps I would be better off on a road bike "where you can see what's coming up and prepare for it more." Then says "I see that you can get over the hard stuff, then you stop. You need to keep going." Keep in mind that he 1) had the opportunity to leave our group 2) isn't any better than we are. I resist the urge to say "At least I haven't crashed, but I see your leg's a scratched up mess" (that would be uncharitable, I know)
Anyway, perhaps it's just a chip on my shoulder and my own insecurities, but dang....
We start. I'm near the back with the teenager, the roadie, and and the sweep (who I know pretty well). We climb and climb. The teenager gets off to walk. The roadie says "OMG! This is so different from road biking!" and gets off to walk. I get off to walk. The sweep (who knows the trials well) is very encouraging and is calling out warnings. (Mud ahead! Rollover to your right! Stream crossing soon! Log bridge! The best line is to the left! Shift! Steep hill! Sharp curve halfway down!) The faster riders stop at an intersection and wait for the slower ones.
We all catch up and decide to break into three groups. I always knew that I was going to go in the slow/beginner/shorter ride group. The fastest group takes off. The middle group has some conversation about who is continuing with them and who is breaking off to loop around and go back to the trailhead. We all ride together for a while. I get in front of a guy I don't know and apologize when I slip in the mud and make him stop behind me. He's super nice "Don't worry, you're fine. My wife won't even get on a mtb."
The middle group goes on and then it's me, the teenager, the roadie, and the sweep. We're all pretty evenly matched, and take turns in the lead. I joke to the sweep that he's never going to take us out again. He laughs and says that's not true. He's having a great time and getting to practice his coaching skills. The roadie asks if the sweep and I are married. We say no, we are friends though, and and he says to me "Oh, I thought maybe you came on the ride because you were married to to the sweep." (As if I wouldn't just be out on my own?)
Then the roadie starts asking me questions. How old am I? How long have I been riding? Suggests that perhaps I would be better off on a road bike "where you can see what's coming up and prepare for it more." Then says "I see that you can get over the hard stuff, then you stop. You need to keep going." Keep in mind that he 1) had the opportunity to leave our group 2) isn't any better than we are. I resist the urge to say "At least I haven't crashed, but I see your leg's a scratched up mess" (that would be uncharitable, I know)
Anyway, perhaps it's just a chip on my shoulder and my own insecurities, but dang....
