merziac

And therein lies the rub, so many butchers and hacks that are just competent enough to get away with making it work to get it out the door.

Often the buyer is not savvy enough to know the seller was responsible for a problem after the fact, so these guys get away with it for way too long thinking they are smart enough to make things work when in fact they cause more problems down the road.

I got a PX-10 from a guy that seemed like an ok guy and wrench but knew going in he had screwed things up quite a bit.

Foolishly wanting the bike and knowing it was gacked, I took it home and proceeded to remove the crappy 9/16 ths pedal that he had "barely" screwed in that were stuck badly to the point that I had to strip the pedal off the spindle to employ vise-grip and cheater pipe on one, got it off, moved on to the stuck dust caps that were stuck in the crappy threads that I cleaned up and got the puller to get the crank arms off.

NDS cup was ok but threads were a bit sketchy and the DS cup was badly seized about 2-3 turns from seated. Got it out, reworked and chased all cup, crank and pedal threads. Found and installed some French spindles in a nice pair of Campy pedals so this will still have all original crank, BB and and some nice Campy pedals to go with.

Like I said, I knew most of this going in, wanted the bike anyway as it had Mafac Competition brakes, Simplex cable clips, SP, skewers, RDO adjusters and Stronlight HS all in very good shape despite crappy paint, paying too much but being my size with Nervex Pro lugs, I had to save it.

I always try to assume the worst case scenario and weigh it against price, condition, want, parts, etc. as well as potential issues.

Whenever a seller says "oh I went through it, that, etc." I automatically ratchet up my assessment of them and reweigh the price against that, often telling them I will be going through it again anyway to make sure it is done the way I want it done and also to say I'll be looking for any problems created or existing undisclosed.

That often prompts them to divulge something adverse that I would find, lowball incoming.

xiaoman1 

cudak888
What Curt said is correct...as found implies as found rotted tires and all....there are many levels of restorations from full to survivor (enough to make it safe and roadworthy, nothing more).
All of my rides are survivors, I don't have any inclination and a resto and that includes full paint/partial for rust control is fine as is a service of the bike etc.
But as they say to each their own.
Best, Ben

droppedandlost 

My approach is any ad that says restored, refurbished, "I'm a mechanic", etc. is just them saying "this bike is worth my ridiculous asking price".

merziac

Exactly

genejockey 

It's the same with vintage watches - unless the seller can produce a receipt from a watchmaker, "recently serviced" means diddly, and you have to assume it will need a full disassembly, cleaning, inspection, replacement of worn parts, reassembly, lubrication, and regulation.

That's what I've done with every watch I've bought, and now with every bike. The advantage of bikes is that the parts are bigger and easier to find when you drop them. The disadvantage is you can't stuff dozens of bikes in a drawer.

gthomson

I guess I would side with "As Found" over restoring it myself as I don't have the tools or the experience to do a complete overhaul from end to end. That being said, in the event you can find a bike that is well priced and is RTR and assuming all is in good shape, its probably going to be cheaper than having to source out the parts to fix it up yourself. If you already have the parts, then maybe not so much.

Just found a bike listed which was a decent brand and model for it's time, looks to be in very good shape from the pictures and is priced less than what it would cost me to buy a new set of replacement wheels. Why not buy this and save myself the work? Truth be told, I don't need another bike so will let someone else enjoy this good catch and happy to see another vintage bike stay on the road.

randyjawa 

Because I goofed and asked, in the first sentence of the listing to have this thread moved.

randyjawa 

There is restored and then what I do - street restored. A perfect restoration would be pretty darn difficult and expensive to achieve. A street restored bike is not 100% original but does sport as many period and model correct components as I can get my hands on. The grey Torpado, in my opinion, is street restored, however; it is now in the upgrading stage. Pictures soon.

clubman 

I saw that Randy. Just prompting the mods.

SurferRosa

When I mention in a sales listing the bike is refurbished (aka, fully overhauled) and display pics of the bare frame and new consumables, this is not "just" an indication of price, but also a reflection of the effort, cost and expertise I invested in the project. So, my "approach" is to justify and explain my "ridiculous asking price."

droppedandlost 

And that's the way it should be done. You're making an effort to show/prove what you did. It's far from common though. I'm talking about the ads with one blurry pic and few details.

barnfind

I prefer the 'As Found' sort of bike myself. I'd rather deal with any issues myself and since I prefer bikes to be all original, I strongly prefer to keep them that way.
Most bikes I've bought that were 'restored' ended up being parts bikes.

cudak888 

Just want to point this out, as it seems to be getting lost: Randy's original question wasn't about sales terminology, but the general condition of bikes one prefers to own or acquire.

Restored, as-found, refurbished, restomodded, and rebuilt have vastly different connotations depending on whether they're being used by an owner or a seller.

-Kurt

himespau 

In the past, I've preferred to buy framesets. Part of that is because I'm a big guy and it makes shipping cheaper. A lot of it, is because I'm sort of more on the restomod side of things and like putting modern parts on classic frames (I also don't have to worry about stuck posts, stems, or BBs if they're not included). If I were to come across a "restored" bike that was exactly as I wanted it (especially this time around as I'm recovering from a lower back injury due to getting hit by a car, so bending and twisting are painful), I'd be willing to take it but a lot of people don't share my sense of aesthetics. I definitely don't want to spend extra on a bike that someone else restored to their sensibilities only to have to pull all the parts off of it to set it up to my preferences.

cudak888 

Sorry to disagree with you Randy, but I'd say that once a bike is resprayed with a non-factory color, I'd call it restomodded rather than restored. It's one of the few descriptive terms that carries over from the classic car world really well.

I think this is yet another reason the terminologies used within this field could be improved. Our current ones are pretty limited and vague. Not that I care to see someone go full elitist and come up with some concourse grading system, but there's got to be a few more terms that can be put to use.

-Kurt

iab

If you look at the car world, there are pretty much only 3 classes, preservation, restoration and modification. Where one becomes another is mostly grey. Paint seems to be an on/off switch, probably because it has the biggest impact on appearance. I tend to disagree, but ymmv.

tkamd73 

As is, because I want to be in charge of the restoration. With bikes, if it’s not a good 5 footer, it’s getting restored. Patina is a very vague, subjective, and overused term. I tend to like it, when associated with old pickup trucks, and vintage sports cars. On everything else it seems to mean, looks like crap.
Tim

Senior Ryder 00 

[QUOTE

1971 Raleigh Competition



From 10 feet away it's not visible.... if you squint your eyes! hahaha The ride and handling make up for the rust.



[/QUOTE]

My first “good” bike was one of those two tone lilac/lavender Competitions. Too big for me, but I road the hell out of it. Would like to find another to rebuild.
BTW, prefer “as found” so I can build with components I prefer.
Cheers,
Van

randyjawa 

Hey, Kurt, I could not agree more. I use the term street restored in the same fashion as you use the term restomodded. Neither really means much of anything, other than not restored. As for terminologies, our group cannot even agree on what is and what is not vintage or classic, for that matter. But does it really make any difference?

Anyway, no need to be sorry for disagreeing. I totally accept the opinion of others and in this case I really see no difference in our opinions. I am looking forward to street restoring another bike, one of these days and, for what it is worth, the repainted Torpado is now being upgraded or modified, with period correct (mostly except for the seat post) but not model correct components making it a restomodded steed indeed.

The bike just got a Brooks B17 honey saddle and alloy indexed seat post, and will soon be getting Campy Gran Sport quick release hubs laced to alloy rims and a new transmission, either Velox or Gran Tourismo. Looking forward to those upgrades which will make the bike more comfortable and easier for this old fart to ride.

Kabuki12

I have a couple of bikes that are original and were hardly ridden so they are very nice "as found". Most of my bikes are riders that are clean and in fine mechanical condition but have seen miles. One bike I restored ,a 1972 ItallVega Grand Rally that was left for dead , is my "mucho patina" bike and it is cool. I recently bought a nice 1975 Colnago Super that is in rider condition( worn paint) ....for now. I am waiting for my turn at Franklin Frame to have it repainted in the original color . I dunno , I just want that one nice. It is up to the individual and how they feel about a particular bike. Some I would not repaint , some I would.

cudak888 

Funny, I've always thought the exact opposite

The whole overdone rat rod patina thing looks terrible on old automobiles, honestly - especially crap on an old truck (excluding the bed - that can be terrible), doubly so if it's gloss cleared. I can appreciate a single-stage survivor with burnt paint though.

As for frames, I tend to believe a bike can carry its battle scars with the same dignity of a survivor automobile. Just depends how visually appealing the discoloration and roughness is.

'61 Paramount. Cleaned up, but most definitely not restored. Not even close.






-Kurt

repechage

Serviced to me is tear it down and repack all.
To the CL flippers, serviced is knock off the dirt and maybe WD-40 on the chain.
Just depends on your perspective. the bike appears like it was gone through, cleaned, polished, bearings repacked.
My personal pet concern is folk call bikes without pedals a bike, "near a complete bike", not yet a bike.
I should not project those prejudices, just ticks me off when people offer a vintage bike for sale and keep the pedals off.

verktyg 

To be honest, it was a groggy late night eBay Best Offer Error....

These lilac Raleigh Competitions were showing up in online discussions a few years back. The color caught my eye, I'd never seen one before so I did an eBay search in the middle of the night. In my foggy eyed stupor I looked over the extensive photos figuring I'd only have to get rid of the pedals, saddle, suicide levers and maybe have to replace the cables etc.

"Safety Levers" aka Turkey Levers and Dork Disk being placed in temporary storage.



The bike had been on eBay for a long time so I decided to make the seller a lowball $200 offer.

BFE - Big Finger Error!

My best offer turned out to be $300 and the seller jumped at it so my mistake...

I've gone over every bike I've ever bought, even those from friends whose work I trust.

I had to take care of almost 20 problems before the bike was safely rideable.

When I got back to the seller with marked up photos, they said that the work was done by a "new kid in the shop". Anyway I got a decent refund and fixed the problems myself. The bike rides and handles great so I'm happy.

verktyg

The Golden Boy 

It depends on what it is and what I want it for.

I'm picky about how I want my stuff and "as stock" isn't really something that excites me.

Chuck M 

I like the survivor aspect of old bikes and subscribe to "it is only original once" theory.. But I have a heaping pile of Gazelle that needs paint if I don't decide to just part it out. If I do paint, I'm not ruling out brushing it on like you did.