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Old 07-08-16, 04:50 PM
  #3651  
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Sorry, no experience with it. On the BT with the Scatto's I have the PCV under the saddle (recently bought the aluminium one made by Mike Zagorski as my old under saddle mount was off centre on one rail). On my training bike I have the PCV up front, but can use the standard mount on these as they are Easton EC90 bars.
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Old 07-10-16, 11:35 AM
  #3652  
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That looks like a great solution. I would try it for $37 + shipping.

They even help you determine which stems may work and which may not.



The craziest thing is that you'd think SRM would make an array of mounts like this. The hard part is making the cranks and head units. Making bar, stem, or seatmount clamps should be easy.
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Old 07-10-16, 06:47 PM
  #3653  
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Originally Posted by Dalai View Post
Please remove your sprint coloured glasses for a second... Aero is very important! Why do you think we use double discs for the pursuit? Rear disc all the time... Sprint races are often won by 0.1 of a second.

The Planet X frame geometry is fine.

Where you you get the Planet X frames are too flexy? Especially since we don't know the weight or race preference of the person asking. I have both a Planet X Track frame which you say is flexy and an overweight and over engineered BT Stealth and personally can't notice a difference.
I apologize for saying spmething in one direction.
Also I was just referring to Carleton words about planet X stiffness.
I was just trying to say Planet X is not stiff like other popular track frame.

I'm really sorry about saying something with my short knowledge.

Thanks for telling me good information
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Old 07-10-16, 09:04 PM
  #3654  
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It's all good gycho77. Just have to remember that nearly anything will flex under Carleton!
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Old 07-10-16, 09:23 PM
  #3655  
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Originally Posted by Dalai View Post
It's all good gycho77. Just have to remember that nearly anything will flex under Carleton!
Including my desk chair
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Old 07-11-16, 12:41 PM
  #3656  
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Maybe commission BT to make you one?
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Old 07-12-16, 05:10 AM
  #3657  
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Ordered a new chain and didn't realise it was a narrow chain (still a 1/8th though)

Is there any benefit to a narrow chain? I guess there will be less lateral movement and a better power transfer?
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Old 07-12-16, 10:21 PM
  #3658  
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Originally Posted by MrMinty View Post
Ordered a new chain and didn't realise it was a narrow chain (still a 1/8th though)

Is there any benefit to a narrow chain? I guess there will be less lateral movement and a better power transfer?

Who makes this narrow chain?


What dimension is reduced to make it narrow?


Having never heard of a narrow 1/8" chain I'm curious.
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Old 07-12-16, 11:43 PM
  #3659  
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I think Minty is confusing measurements.

Minty, what is the make/model of the chain you have?
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Old 07-13-16, 08:13 AM
  #3660  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I think Minty is confusing measurements.

Minty, what is the make/model of the chain you have?
It's this one although it doesn't state on the descripition that its narrow. Bought as a spare, so its not been fitted yet
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Old 07-13-16, 06:26 PM
  #3661  
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Originally Posted by MrMinty View Post
It's this one although it doesn't state on the descripition that its narrow. Bought as a spare, so its not been fitted yet
Where is the word "narrow" coming from? Did someone tell you that it was a narrow chain?

Chainrings and cogs come in 2 widths. The road standards is 3/32". The thicker track standards is 1/8" (or 4/32" which is 1/32" wider). This is why the track chainrings are called "wide".

"Narrow": 3/32" chainrings, cogs, chains
"Wide": 1/8" (4/32") chainrings, cogs, chains


Over-explaining a simple thing:

Chains have narrow tolerances. A chain designed to fit on a 3/32" chainring and cog has openings just wide enough to fit over the 3/32" wide teeth. If you tried to place such a chain on a 1/8" chainring, it would not fit down on it. Looks like this:



So, if you use a 1/8" chainring or cog, then you need a 1/8" (aka: "wide") chain to mate with it so it fits appropriately.

Now, with that in mind, a wider 1/8" chain CAN fit over a 3/32" chainring or cog. But, as you might guess, there will be 1/32" of lateral play in the system. But, that's not noticeable at all.

The "Track Standard" for all drive train components is 1/8". However, you can find stuff in 3/32" format. Usually weight weenies go for this option as the weight savings are not insignificant. Note that if you do adopt a 3/32" system, you won't be able to borrow chainrings or cogs in a pinch because most people use 1/8" at the track and your 3/32" chain won't fit.

The general advice: If you don't have a really good reason to go 3/32", just go 1/8" for everything. It will make your life easier.
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Old 07-15-16, 10:44 AM
  #3662  
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Is anyone here track only? Do you even know your FTP, as in have actually tested it? I'm guessing for sprinters you don't even bother testing it or worrying about it because your workouts are all shorter than that and events are all anaerobic?

Just a random thought I had while testing (attempting to, I blew up) my FTP last night.
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Old 07-16-16, 03:01 AM
  #3663  
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Hello guys.
I might get a sponsor from a frame builder in Korea.
The owner wanted to try something new and willing to sponsor me or SCI-Arc team.
However, he wanted to know what kind of geometry I want.
Also he want me to decide, if I want to make the frame super stiff(it makes the frame brittle) or has little flex on the frame.

So this is my plan(I will be racing in 250m with 45degree banking velodrome)
-74degree heattube and seattube
-120mm seattube or shorter(seattube 50 or 49)
-long~~~ dropout like bt(I might use Stolen style dropout)
-28mm or 30mm fork rake
-50mm bb drop

Problem with my current frame(reference)
-headtube is too long for me
-dropout is not long enough for me

My current frame geometry
-st(c-c) 51.5
-tt 52
-fork rake 30mm
- BB drop 50mm
-HT and ST angle 74 degree(not 100 percent sure)

I think this geometry would not fit my body(alot of njs frame has 72.5 or 73 headtube degree and my body is similar to Japanese)
So can anyone recommend me a geometry. I tried to reference Don Walker frame geometry, but it's based on 55cm
Also give me concept of the frame.
The frame builder want to make an unique frame.
So he is willing to make the frame like the new FES track frame, Look L96, or BT

Just tell me your custom frame idea and I will combine them all together and ask the frame builder

My main focus is Match Sprint

Thank you for all your help
Please do not hate me for asking stupid question.
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Old 07-16-16, 11:08 AM
  #3664  
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gycho77,
If you do not know what geometry you need then you should not be looking for a custom frame.
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Old 07-16-16, 01:40 PM
  #3665  
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Does the builder have experience building track racing bikes? If your frame builder is good, he should do the fit for you.
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Old 07-16-16, 01:49 PM
  #3666  
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The framebuildee has a lot of experience in building track frames, but for some reason he want to choose the geometry.

700wheel
Also I am thinking of 74 degree, but I want to check if it will fit my body or not.
I might just go with 74degree, 28mm, 45mm BB drop.
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Old 07-16-16, 02:13 PM
  #3667  
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Carleton
The framebuilder has a lot of experience in building track frames, but for some reason he want to choose the geometry. Also he was a Keirin racer when he was young.

700wheel
Also I am thinking of 74 degree, but I want to check if it will fit my body or not.
I might just go with 74degree, 28mm, 45mm BB drop.

Thank you for all your helps and I think I know what I should do know.
I will just adjust the BB drop a little and talk to the frame builder more.
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Old 07-16-16, 05:59 PM
  #3668  
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Go with the geometry from the LOOK L96 Speed: Look Cycle - L96 Speed - Frames - Track

Being that you are a shorter rider. This means that your top tube will be short. Short top tube means that your front wheel will be closer to your toes. Notice that their Small and Medium bikes use a 34mm fork offset and their Extra Extra Small and Extra Small bikes use a longer 43mm fork offset. This is because those smaller frame are so small that your foot would rub the tire with a 34mm offset.

So, since you are thinking of a 51cm top tube, I would look at the Extra Small L96 Speed geometry.

Last edited by carleton; 07-16-16 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 07-16-16, 06:50 PM
  #3669  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Go with the geometry from the LOOK L96 Speed: Look Cycle - L96 Speed - Frames - Track

Being that you are a shorter rider. This means that your top tube will be short. Short top tube means that your front wheel will be closer to your toes. Notice that their Small and Medium bikes use a 34mm fork offset and their Extra Extra Small and Extra Small bikes use a longer 43mm fork offset. This is because those smaller frame are so small that your foot would rub the tire with a 34mm offset.

So, since you are thinking of a 51cm top tube, I would look at the Extra Small L96 Speed geometry.
Thank you for your help.
I thought you hated L96 geometry, but I could try l96 geometry.
And can you please tell me why my toe touching the front tire is bad.
My current bike also has that problem, but I never fell down or crashed because of this problem.
Also when I am riding my toe never touches the front tire

my current frame has 52cm toptube, 74degree headtube, and 30mm fork rake
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Old 07-16-16, 09:17 PM
  #3670  
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If you're actually doing match sprints, then toe overlap matters. Excerpt from a very interesting BikeRumor interview with Don Walker:

BIKERUMOR: What’s their event?

DON: Yeah, are they a sprinter? [...] You want a little more front-center because if you’re playing cat and mouse with another sprinter and they know that you’re on a really tight bike, say they’ve got enough front-center, they can get you just in the position they want and dive down the track and you’re going to have to go a quarter to half a pedal stroke around to get your front wheel so that you can turn and go down track. [...]
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Old 07-16-16, 09:56 PM
  #3671  
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Originally Posted by Hrothgar42 View Post
If you're actually doing match sprints, then toe overlap matters. Excerpt from a very interesting BikeRumor interview with Don Walker:

BIKERUMOR: What’s their event?

DON: Yeah, are they a sprinter? [...] You want a little more front-center because if you’re playing cat and mouse with another sprinter and they know that you’re on a really tight bike, say they’ve got enough front-center, they can get you just in the position they want and dive down the track and you’re going to have to go a quarter to half a pedal stroke around to get your front wheel so that you can turn and go down track. [...]
Thank you so much.
This article helped me a lot.
My local velodrome(I'm moving LA, so I will racing in match sprint) had no match sprint race for amateur.
So I just trained on power, cadence, and other.
I had no idea how the geometry works for match sprint.
Thank you again for your help.

I think I will just go with Look L96 geometry
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Old 07-16-16, 10:20 PM
  #3672  
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Originally Posted by gycho77 View Post
Thank you for your help.
I thought you hated L96 geometry, but I could try l96 geometry.
And can you please tell me why my toe touching the front tire is bad.
My current bike also has that problem, but I never fell down or crashed because of this problem.
Also when I am riding my toe never touches the front tire

my current frame has 52cm toptube, 74degree headtube, and 30mm fork rake
I think the 496/L96 geometry is good. 34mm offset fork is good. 40 is where I start whining

My only real complaint about LOOK is that they stop at size Medium with a 56cm top tube. Anchor/Bridgestone does the same thing.

The only reason I can guess that LOOK does not make any larger sizes is because they somehow fail testing. They are simply "leaving money on the table" by not offering them. It's not a matter of "we don't want to make them if they won't sell" because each frame is made when the order is placed and money is paid.

If they offered 58, 60, and 62 TT options, they would sell probably twice as many frames.

Think about it. How many Extra Extra Small (49.5cm) frames would they sell vs Large (58cm)?? There are many, many times more 58cm riders than there are 49.5cm riders.

The only logical reason is that the design doesn't hold up at that size or larger.
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Old 07-16-16, 10:34 PM
  #3673  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I think the 496/L96 geometry is good. 34mm offset fork is good. 40 is where I start whining

My only real complaint about LOOK is that they stop at size Medium with a 56cm top tube. Anchor/Bridgestone does the same thing.

The only reason I can guess that LOOK does not make any larger sizes is because they somehow fail testing. They are simply "leaving money on the table" by not offering them. It's not a matter of "we don't want to make them if they won't sell" because each frame is made when the order is placed and money is paid.

If they offered 58, 60, and 62 TT options, they would sell probably twice as many frames.

Think about it. How many Extra Extra Small (49.5cm) frames would they sell vs Large (58cm)?? There are many, many times more 58cm riders than there are 49.5cm riders.

The only logical reason is that the design doesn't hold up at that size or larger.
Oh!!! I see what you are saying now.
So I tried Anchor, but my toe is still rubbing the front tire.
Do you think L96 XS geometry will solve this problem?
Or should I make the toptube longer and use short stem
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Old 07-16-16, 10:49 PM
  #3674  
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Originally Posted by gycho77 View Post
Oh!!! I see what you are saying now.
So I tried Anchor, but my toe is still rubbing the front tire.
Now you see

Now imagine doing a trackstand on a 20 degree straight away and being afraid of touching your toe. Or simply riding slow in general.

Originally Posted by gycho77 View Post
Or should I make the toptube longer and use short stem
No. This is a BAD idea. This will adversely affect your handling when your hands are far behind your front axle. Hands should be roughly above your front axle.


Originally Posted by gycho77 View Post
Do you think L96 XS geometry will solve this problem?
This problem is the reason why the XXS and XS frames have 43mm (road) forks...to address this issue.

It's hard for me to say what geometry is best for you. If you were looking for some known geometries that work, look at LOOK.

I would talk this over with your builder and see what his thoughts are.

One easy way to see if that geo will fit you is to take those numbers and plug them into a fit bike and then you sit on the fit bike and see how it feels.
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Old 07-16-16, 11:16 PM
  #3675  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Now you see

Now imagine doing a trackstand on a 20 degree straight away and being afraid of touching your toe. Or simply riding slow in general.



No. This is a BAD idea. This will adversely affect your handling when your hands are far behind your front axle. Hands should be roughly above your front axle.




This problem is the reason why the XXS and XS frames have 43mm (road) forks...to address this issue.

It's hard for me to say what geometry is best for you. If you were looking for some known geometries that work, look at LOOK.

I would talk this over with your builder and see what his thoughts are.

One easy way to see if that geo will fit you is to take those numbers and plug them into a fit bike and then you sit on the fit bike and see how it feels.

Thank you so much!
I should visit his shop few more times and decide what geometry wil fit my body.
And I will use AutoCAD to find my fork rake and heattube angle.

I have two more questions.
1) If I had one choice what should I choose.
74 degree ht with road fork vs. 72degree with 30mm(or 35) fork rake
2) Do I want the frame to be super stiff(it makes the frame brittle) or do I want little flex on the BB

I think I will be using this frame for next 10 years. So I want to make the frame perfect or close to perfect
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