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Cadence meter

Old 09-22-16, 06:33 AM
  #26  
brawlo
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Originally Posted by Carlosss View Post
So the Sigma sensors that you have are both magnet-based with fork-mounted speed meter and chain stays-mounted cadence meter? How quick is the sampling rate? Although if it is good for you as a sprinter it should be good for me too
That is correct about the sensors. Sampling rate is 1sec as per the Garmin head unit. I know guys that are going sub 11s and they only have a basic speed sensor and a friend with a stopwatch. Don't for a second think that speed is tied to a sensor or head unit or power meter

Originally Posted by MarkWW View Post
Yep they're out there, but apparently NOS according to a friend of my sister's that works in a Trek shop. Couldn't get one in the foreseeable future so he's to look further afield. Can't buy Bontrager stuff from OS either. In the end it was a bonus as I got both sensors with shipping for only $10 more than one of the Bontrager sensors
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Old 09-22-16, 06:53 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
The head unit set the sample rate, not the power cranks. I used the SRM head unit with Dura Ace cranks and got all the data I needed...ever 0.5"

It's not eWang (not sure why you keep using that term).

Look, man. You have little or no experience on the track yet have opinions in every thread. Would that be considered DRIP?
Doge was agreeing with you that data is only as good as the analysis.
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Old 09-22-16, 07:56 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
Doge was agreeing with you that data is only as good as the analysis.
I got that. I was referring to this:

For me (not you) .5 sec vs 1 sec is good for eWang. I wouldn't know what to do with it
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Old 09-22-16, 08:03 AM
  #29  
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yeah, i read that as agreeing with your comment of "data is only good if you analyze it." Doge is thinking critically about information and trying to determine what applies to his situation, and a bunch of people on here are accusing him of being argumentative instead of just engaging. I think it's a nasty welcome to the sport based on misreading internet comments.
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Old 09-22-16, 10:20 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
yeah, i read that as agreeing with your comment of "data is only good if you analyze it." Doge is thinking critically about information and trying to determine what applies to his situation, and a bunch of people on here are accusing him of being argumentative instead of just engaging. I think it's a nasty welcome to the sport based on misreading internet comments.
I agree that a nasty welcome to the sport is awful and I try not to be a part of that.

I know that a lot of tone is lost in text on a screen. It's hard to be "firm but not b*tchy" and not come off as b*tchy on forums.
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Old 09-22-16, 11:30 AM
  #31  
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the tone loss manages to feed upon itself. i feel as though if we were all around a pitcher of beer we'd all be mostly seeing eye to eye, or at least laughing while we disagree.

i just wanna make sure that no arguments happen where they don't have to.

although if you want to get into it about sprint geo versus enduro geo i'm up for anything.
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Old 09-22-16, 12:00 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
although if you want to get into it about sprint geo versus enduro geo i'm up for anything.
I swear, I'm gonna start my own bike company just to try to rid the world of bad geometry...one bike at a time.


...and bad seatposts
...and bad seatpost toppers.
...and bad dropouts

There's so many kids on my lawn right now...I just needa sit down for a minute.
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Old 09-22-16, 12:16 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by houleskis View Post
I have both types sensors (the GSC-10 on my roadie and the accelerometer on my track bike) and a Garmin 500. Here's my reviews FWIW


GSC-10: Much more responsive and syncs with my Garmin much more easily. As Carleton said, the magnet will move when changing gears. Luckily, the magnet setup is pretty straight forward so it shouldn't be a crazy issue to move it around when you change gears but it is an additional thing to do. Also, given that the sensor is zip tied to your bike, it won't be too easy to move should you want to use it on multiple bikes. I would advise getting another GSC-10 if you went that direction.


Accelerometer: Only have 2 rides on it so far so YMMV. So far, I've had issues pairing the sensors with my Garmin (if anyone else has fixed the problem let me know!). I generally can't have bike computers visible on the track so it's hard to see if it's pairing properly. Also, a lot of people have these sensors on their bike at the track so I can't tell what signal I'm picking up! In other words; I need to debug. Otherwise, the setup is dead easy. Simply strap them on and you're ready to go. If you want to use them on multiple bikes swapping them is a piece of cake as well. Performance wise, while accurate, it doesn't seem as responsive as the GSC-10.


As for the bike computer, the Garmin 500 is awesome. Yes, the more fancy ones have bigger colored screens, Strava updates, more data fields per screen, better maps, etc, etc but I've never been left wanting. You can also get power should you ever get a power meter. Best bang for the buck IMO.
The 520 lists the sensors it picks up. The best thing to do is to pair the sensors with your unit when there's no other sensors within range, you can then name them, simple really. Works really well with us.
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Old 09-23-16, 04:58 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
That is correct about the sensors. Sampling rate is 1sec as per the Garmin head unit. I know guys that are going sub 11s and they only have a basic speed sensor and a friend with a stopwatch. Don't for a second think that speed is tied to a sensor or head unit or power meter
Sweeeet! Got both Sigma ANT+ speed and cadence sensors for 35. Can't wait to try them with the used Garmin 500 I got off eBay for 65, not a bad deal I thought
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Old 09-23-16, 09:24 AM
  #35  
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I've seen a bunch of posts about recording frequency, and wanted to share this amazing tidbit I found (And though it could be used for cadence, it's a lot more than $15)

Stages power meters have a high speed data mode that records raw force & torque at 64hz!!
Stages Cycling adds new power meter metrics, shows off high-speed data streaming | DC Rainmaker

You can save the raw data as a csv file, but from what I read, actually analyzing the data is a PITA.
power - Analysis of Stages high-speed data - Bicycles Stack Exchange

I'll try it on my road bike this weekend and report back.
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Old 09-23-16, 11:47 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Hrothgar42 View Post
I've seen a bunch of posts about recording frequency, and wanted to share this amazing tidbit I found (And though it could be used for cadence, it's a lot more than $15)

Stages power meters have a high speed data mode that records raw force & torque at 64hz!!
Stages Cycling adds new power meter metrics, shows off high-speed data streaming | DC Rainmaker

You can save the raw data as a csv file, but from what I read, actually analyzing the data is a PITA.
power - Analysis of Stages high-speed data - Bicycles Stack Exchange

I'll try it on my road bike this weekend and report back.
Yeah, I think the Stages only saves at 64Hz using the smart phone head unit....which you would't want on your bike on the track.

To be honest, it's probably a small firmware update to make it happen for Garmin (and other) head units and a similar update to the software. Many software packages will chart whatever you give it. Golden Cheetah is not very polished, but once you learn the 20% of it that you need, that's all you need. It's like Photoshop...lots of buttons, but most of use just use a few of them.
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Old 09-23-16, 12:58 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by houleskis View Post
I have both types sensors (the GSC-10 on my roadie and the accelerometer on my track bike) and a Garmin 500. Here's my reviews FWIW


GSC-10: Much more responsive and syncs with my Garmin much more easily. As Carleton said, the magnet will move when changing gears. Luckily, the magnet setup is pretty straight forward so it shouldn't be a crazy issue to move it around when you change gears but it is an additional thing to do. Also, given that the sensor is zip tied to your bike, it won't be too easy to move should you want to use it on multiple bikes. I would advise getting another GSC-10 if you went that direction.


Accelerometer: Only have 2 rides on it so far so YMMV. So far, I've had issues pairing the sensors with my Garmin (if anyone else has fixed the problem let me know!). I generally can't have bike computers visible on the track so it's hard to see if it's pairing properly. Also, a lot of people have these sensors on their bike at the track so I can't tell what signal I'm picking up! In other words; I need to debug. Otherwise, the setup is dead easy. Simply strap them on and you're ready to go. If you want to use them on multiple bikes swapping them is a piece of cake as well. Performance wise, while accurate, it doesn't seem as responsive as the GSC-10.


As for the bike computer, the Garmin 500 is awesome. Yes, the more fancy ones have bigger colored screens, Strava updates, more data fields per screen, better maps, etc, etc but I've never been left wanting. You can also get power should you ever get a power meter. Best bang for the buck IMO.

I have the same type of setup, road is GSC-10 and accelometers on the track bike. I also have issues with pairing the accelometers. After a lot of research, I determined that there was no one fix that worked for everyone. In my case, I determined that if I put the 500 on my track bike, and got it to pair with the sensors, it would pair easily the next time unless I switched the 500 back to the road bike. Then, when I returned the 500 to the track bike, it would pair the cadence sensor, but would not pair the speed sensor. I was close to simply throwing the 500 against the road, and telling my wife that a train ran over it so I could justify buying a 520 (like she has). But, before it came to that, I found that when I needed to pair with the track bike sensors, I just needed to press Enter, split, start at the same time to reset the 500 (no data is lost when you do it that way). Once I reset it, the accelometers on the track bike pair easily. Note, this does not need to be done when I return the 500 to the road bike with the GSC-10, which just pairs like always.

Last edited by rensho3; 09-23-16 at 01:00 PM. Reason: Fix typos and ugly grammar
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Old 09-23-16, 01:30 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by rensho3 View Post
But, before it came to that, I found that when I needed to pair with the track bike sensors, I just needed to press Enter, split, start at the same time to reset the 500 (no data is lost when you do it that way). Once I reset it, the accelometers on the track bike pair easily.


Sounds like the solution to my problem! I'll have to give it a go. Thanks!
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Old 09-23-16, 08:25 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Data is only good if you know how to change it - in the way that is better.

I get the analyze part - but DRIP (Data Rich, Information Poor) is an issue in many areas besides cycling.

For me (not you) .5 sec vs 1 sec is good for eWang. I wouldn't know what to do with it - or how to get it changed. At the time there is a coach that does (and can communicate that so I believe them), I'd spring for a SRM.
DRIP is usually related to tracking information that happens to be available, but that you cannot make use of (can I say HR for determining aerodynamics? ), not better sampling rates of information that you are already desiring.

Think of it like a digital picture. The more pixels that make up the image, the easier it is to recognize what the image represents. A low res-image may be fine if it is to remain small, such as for a photo-ID, but if one wanted to enlarge that image, then the image looks like crap.

You currently may think that you are not be able to make use of the extra information; but if it makes for easier, or more accurate pattern recognition, then you might find that information useful. It is also information that could be accessed retroactively to compare to current (or future data) to make more effective changes.
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Old 09-23-16, 08:33 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
It's not eWang (not sure why you keep using that term).
Is it this?
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Old 10-09-16, 03:07 PM
  #41  
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Has anyone who uses the Garmin speed and cadence sensors that attach with the rubber loop had any issues from commissaires on these?
That was my first thought on unwrapping them with my Garmin 520. (I've had commissaires ask me to remove my cadence/speed sensor combo that was zip-tied to the chainstay; likely to be seen as a more secure fastening than the rubber loops)

For others reading this thread looking for unit feedback, since OP is sorted; the Garmin 500 does everything you need on the track. the 520 is far more user-friendly in every way - easier to read screen, simpler menu structure, easy configuration etc.

On any unit you get, worth considering how long it will continue to be supported by the manufacturer, if its a bit older. (The Edge 500 is about seven years old now.)
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Old 10-09-16, 05:08 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Velocirapture View Post
Has anyone who uses the Garmin speed and cadence sensors that attach with the rubber loop had any issues from commissaires on these?
That was my first thought on unwrapping them with my Garmin 520. (I've had commissaires ask me to remove my cadence/speed sensor combo that was zip-tied to the chainstay; likely to be seen as a more secure fastening than the rubber loops)
WOW that's really harsh! Never had or seen an issue with sensors here in Oz. Comms here are just worried about where you put the head unit, making sure it's not visible. From there it comes down to the comm. Some are fine with rotating the mount of my Garmin (which lives on the stem) to the side or under the stem. Others want the computer removed altogether.
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Old 10-09-16, 07:02 PM
  #43  
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Yeah, that's an unreasonable request by a commissaire. I would politely ask for a "second opinion" and/or for them to cite the rule that you've broken.
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Old 10-10-16, 08:36 AM
  #44  
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The commissaires didn't say anything about sensors at this years world masters.
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Old 10-10-16, 09:10 AM
  #45  
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If you're wearing a regular kit (not a skin suit), how about putting the head unit in a pocket? Will the commissaires freak out over that?
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Old 10-10-16, 10:16 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by sarals View Post
If you're wearing a regular kit (not a skin suit), how about putting the head unit in a pocket? Will the commissaires freak out over that?
Yes. I would.

I've seen cell phones hop out of people's jersey pockets in warmup and races on the track.

One should properly secure the head unit to the bike.

The rule about head units is because it is thought that it could give an "unfair advantage" to a person who is using it for pacing in a pursuit.

The easiest and safest solutions are to either find a proper under-saddle mount or use gaffer's tape* to cover up the screen during your event.

*I like gaffer's tape specifically because it can be used repeatedly and will not melt in heat or leave glue residue behind.
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Old 10-10-16, 04:35 PM
  #47  
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Carleton, that makes sense. You've noticed I think like a roadie?
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Old 10-10-16, 06:13 PM
  #48  
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UCI Regulations - Track Races

3.2.005 Riders may carry no object on them or on their bicycles that could drop onto the track. They may not bear or use on the track any music player or radio communication system. In addition, any electronic device with display (for instance speedometer or powermeter) must be hidden to that it cannot be read by the riders.

Acceptable mounting to hide the device from view is under the saddle. Tape over the display is not acceptable since theoretically it could be removed. Racers are allowed a coach on the apron of the track while they are racing. Coaches are allowed to provide lap times. Some coaches use a step command where they walk toward or away from the oncoming racer to signal to either increase, decrease or hold pace and others yell out the lap times.
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Old 10-10-16, 07:39 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
UCI Regulations - Track Races

3.2.005 Riders may carry no object on them or on their bicycles that could drop onto the track. They may not bear or use on the track any music player or radio communication system. In addition, any electronic device with display (for instance speedometer or powermeter) must be hidden to that it cannot be read by the riders.

Acceptable mounting to hide the device from view is under the saddle. Tape over the display is not acceptable since theoretically it could be removed. Racers are allowed a coach on the apron of the track while they are racing. Coaches are allowed to provide lap times. Some coaches use a step command where they walk toward or away from the oncoming racer to signal to either increase, decrease or hold pace and others yell out the lap times.
Thanks for the correction.

I recall that some racers have been allowed to use tape on their head units because saddle mounts are hard to come by, with the caveat that they would be in violation if they removed the tape during the event.

BTW, the coach on the apron isn't providing wattage feedback, which is probably as important to a pursuiter as their pace according to the schedule.

Personally, I don't agree with the rule.
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Old 10-11-16, 04:33 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Poppit View Post
The commissaires didn't say anything about sensors at this years world masters.
I think it depends on who you get, and how officious they are. The comm that asked me to take mine off was at world masters in 2013.
The same guy also insisted that the tip of my saddle be in line with the *outside* of the crankbolt, and not through the middle (i have a morphological exemption against the 5cm rule), insisting i move my saddle back.

I left the measurement jig, and came back when there was a different guy there who passed my bike without a blink. Nothing had been moved.
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