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Old 03-07-17, 11:30 PM
  #4026  
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Originally Posted by Deathoftheparty View Post
Just making sure that my logic makes sense. I've been around bikes for a while. Used to get paid to wrench on them for awhile, but I know nothing about track bikes. All of the local shops cater to brightly colored wheels and hi-ten frames, so I'm going in rather blind with this purchase. Knowing nothing really about fit outside of my own measurements and from what I've read up on track geometry, I'm asking the gurus here to tell me if what I'd be picking up is suitable for the track.

Start with the same size you use on your road bike. It's a 33 degree track, you could theoretically ride a road bike on a shallow track like that without a problem (but most track stewards wouldn't let you unless nobody was around)

Check bottom bracket height and compare against some known track frames, like anything from Dolan, look or felt-- Your on a 33 degree track now, but you may travel to a steeper one, who knows

It's up to you to compare geometry charts , -- that's armchair quarterback stuff -- The real answer is to make sure it fits, checks off a couple of key things like bb height and length of dropouts, -- then just ride the f-in thing
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Old 03-08-17, 02:16 PM
  #4027  
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Originally Posted by Deathoftheparty View Post
Just making sure that my logic makes sense. I've been around bikes for a while. Used to get paid to wrench on them for awhile, but I know nothing about track bikes. All of the local shops cater to brightly colored wheels and hi-ten frames, so I'm going in rather blind with this purchase. Knowing nothing really about fit outside of my own measurements and from what I've read up on track geometry, I'm asking the gurus here to tell me if what I'd be picking up is suitable for the track.
I say, take your time. Do some research for a couple of weeks. Measure twice, cut once. Buy a bike that is "better than you" and grow into it as opposed to buying a bike that suits your skill level now.

Spend money to avoid or solve problems. Steel, aluminum, and carbon are all fine...and all could cause issues. The key is knowing about what you are purchasing.

Don't focus on weight of the frame. Weight is important, but not the most important. There are many world-class frames that are heavy as hell.

Focus on getting the right angles, size, trouble-free components.

Specific questions get specific answers. Post pics, links, and geo charts to get good answers here. We will not go hunting for info to solve your problem. But, if you lay the info in our laps, we'll evaluate it. We are lazy.
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Old 03-08-17, 02:23 PM
  #4028  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I say, take your time. Do some research for a couple of weeks. Measure twice, cut once. Buy a bike that is "better than you" and grow into it as opposed to buying a bike that suits your skill level now.

Spend money to avoid or solve problems. Steel, aluminum, and carbon are all fine...and all could cause issues. The key is knowing about what you are purchasing.

Don't focus on weight of the frame. Weight is important, but not the most important. There are many world-class frames that are heavy as hell.

Focus on getting the right angles, size, trouble-free components.

Specific questions get specific answers. Post pics, links, and geo charts to get good answers here. We will not go hunting for info to solve your problem. But, if you lay the info in our laps, we'll evaluate it. We are lazy.
Understandable. Unfortunately I'm still too new to post URLs or Image files, but I'm sure I'll get my post count up in the next few days to get to that point.
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Old 03-08-17, 04:36 PM
  #4029  
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I spoke too soon with my last comment as that was post 10. Here is the bike in question and it's geometry. It's a slack headtube, but comes with a 45 degree rake fork which should put my trail in the right range. (The posted fork take is incorrect in the Geo chart.) Components are probably mediocre, but I think the wheels would be fine to train on. I already have a pair of Omniums to replace the crankset, and will end up playing around with different stems and bar widths, so I'm accounting for a change there as well.


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Old 03-08-17, 11:16 PM
  #4030  
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Originally Posted by Deathoftheparty View Post
............. It's a slack headtube, but comes with a 45 degree rake fork which should put my trail in the right range. .....................
Maybe a 73 degree head tube is slack by today's standards but Europeans used 73 degree parallel track frames for years. My Bates steel track frame build in the eighties is 73 deg parallel with a 33 mm fork rake. The frame rides well on the Carson track. Is your "45 degree rake fork" a typo?

By the way 6061-T6 aluminum alloy is a great material for frames that are welded. In aerospace applications 6061-T6 is used because it is resistant to fatigue after welding. My Cervelo road, Ridley track, and Cannondale road frames all use 6061-T6.
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Old 03-08-17, 11:29 PM
  #4031  
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That geo chart says 50mm fork rake. That's even more slack than most road bikes. That's like touring bike slack.

Notice how you are already mentally replacing lots of stuff. Now you are buying things twice...while on a budget. Not a good move.

I'd pass on that bike. Maybe look into something complete like this: https://www.evanscycles.com/hoy-fior...-bike-EV195028
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Old 03-08-17, 11:42 PM
  #4032  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
That geo chart says 50mm fork rake. That's even more slack than most road bikes. That's like touring bike slack.

Notice how you are already mentally replacing lots of stuff. Now you are buying things twice...while on a budget. Not a good move.

I'd pass on that bike. Maybe look into something complete like this: https://www.evanscycles.com/hoy-fior...-bike-EV195028
The fork is actually a 45mm rake which should put my trail right around 56. The Omniums are something I already have, so no money out of pocket there. Already have a Specialized Tri-spoke for the front, and can coninve my girlfriend to grab me a Chinese rear off eBay for my birthday in a few weeks.

I have looked into the Hoy, but unfortunately cannot find a retailer in the States. Spending an extra hundred dollars on shipping should be able to get me a nicer bike if I'm buying domestic.

It seems that I can order a Pre Cursa for around $620 delivered to me over here in Texas if I don't make any of the upgrades available. I know that frame had issues with Omnium crank arms hitting the chain stays in the past. Is anyone aware if that's still an issue?

Last edited by Deathoftheparty; 03-08-17 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 03-09-17, 03:52 AM
  #4033  
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Originally Posted by Deathoftheparty View Post
The fork is actually a 45mm rake which should put my trail right around 56. The Omniums are something I already have, so no money out of pocket there. Already have a Specialized Tri-spoke for the front, and can coninve my girlfriend to grab me a Chinese rear off eBay for my birthday in a few weeks.

I have looked into the Hoy, but unfortunately cannot find a retailer in the States. Spending an extra hundred dollars on shipping should be able to get me a nicer bike if I'm buying domestic.

It seems that I can order a Pre Cursa for around $620 delivered to me over here in Texas if I don't make any of the upgrades available. I know that frame had issues with Omnium crank arms hitting the chain stays in the past. Is anyone aware if that's still an issue?
You mentioned that you used to work on bikes. You probably know that there is a minimum level of equipment needed to participate. Trying to do all of this buying new gear for close to $500-600 is fooling yourself. You are gonna need tools, chainrings, cogs, etc... Read this thread. It's only 3 pages long: https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cyc...ack-racer.html

If you are a new racer, you don't need any aero wheels. Period. Nice to have: Yes. Need to have: No. If you are on a budget: Hell No.

73 degrees with 45mm offset is not anywhere close to something like a DF4 with 74 degrees and 30mm offset or a LOOK 496 with 74 degrees and 34mm offset. The bike you like has a relaxed road geometry. The Hoy (or something very similar) is your best bet. No frills, right geometry, ready to go out of the box, nothing needs to be replaced. Chris Hoy designed it specifically for beginner and intermediate racers on a budget.

But it sounds like you have your mind made up...soooo, good luck!
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Old 03-09-17, 10:15 AM
  #4034  
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Originally Posted by Deathoftheparty View Post
It seems that I can order a Pre Cursa for around $620 delivered to me over here in Texas if I don't make any of the upgrades available. I know that frame had issues with Omnium crank arms hitting the chain stays in the past. Is anyone aware if that's still an issue?
Im running 165 omniums on a pre cursa without any issues. It also looks like you can get a pre cursa frame for less on ebay if building it up is an option.

That's what I did, and the total was just over $1,000. But I also got nitto bars, my favorite saddle, etc. So you could certainly do it for less. Especially depending on how much you end up spending on wheels.
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Old 03-09-17, 12:07 PM
  #4035  
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Originally Posted by Deathoftheparty View Post
.................................
I have looked into the Hoy, but unfortunately cannot find a retailer in the States. Spending an extra hundred dollars on shipping should be able to get me a nicer bike if I'm buying domestic.
...........................
If the Hoy price includes VAT then USA customers do not pay it. That difference usually offsets transportation costs.
Customs may ding you for a few dollars although I've never paid custom dues on around a dozen buys from the UK.

If you have $620, or so, to spend then my suggestion is the Specialized Langster.
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/me...angster/115196
These are our rental bikes at my local Velodrome. After 2-1/2 years of use still in great condition.

Last edited by 700wheel; 03-09-17 at 12:22 PM. Reason: update
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Old 04-07-17, 10:40 AM
  #4036  
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If I have some pretty heavy toe overlap, is it really going to be that significant on the track? Are my turns going to involve the steering that heavily or will the banks be enough?
(Sorry if repost)
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Old 04-07-17, 10:44 AM
  #4037  
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Originally Posted by Smeenan View Post
If I have some pretty heavy toe overlap, is it really going to be that significant on the track? Are my turns going to involve the steering that heavily or will the banks be enough?
(Sorry if repost)
nah- I had terrible-Terrible overlap on several of my race bikes and it wasn't ever an issue.

Even in fast madisons when I was on 'relief', it never came up on long tracks or short ones.
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Old 04-07-17, 12:29 PM
  #4038  
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Agreed. You will never, ever, ever, turn your handlebars far enough during a bike race for toe overlap to matter.
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Old 04-07-17, 01:44 PM
  #4039  
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Wonderful, thanks for the heads up. I don't really ever plan on taking it off of the track or the rollers, so I don't think i'll be making any sharp turns.
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Old 04-07-17, 02:17 PM
  #4040  
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The only place it might be a factor is when rolling around slowly in the infield.

It's a common problem that people just deal with. It's definitely not a deal-breaker for a frame.

It's due to a combination of:

- Shorter top tubes on small to medium frame sizes.
- Moderately steep head tube angle (around 74 degrees?).
- Short fork offset (maybe 35mm or less?).

It's normal. You'll be fine.

Last edited by carleton; 04-07-17 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 04-07-17, 06:12 PM
  #4041  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
The only place it might be a factor is when rolling around slowly in the infield.

It's a common problem that people just deal with. It's definitely not a deal-breaker for a frame.

It's due to a combination of:

- Shorter top tubes on small to medium frame sizes.
- Moderately steep head tube angle (around 74 degrees?).
- Short fork offset (maybe 35mm or less?).

It's normal. You'll be fine.
Only at Dick Lane, where riders are warming up on that ridiculous little oval on the infield
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Old 04-07-17, 06:41 PM
  #4042  
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Or track standing in a match sprint or a Marymoor Crawl (Longest Lap).
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Old 04-08-17, 03:54 PM
  #4043  
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Originally Posted by tobukog View Post
Only at Dick Lane, where riders are warming up on that ridiculous little oval on the infield
Hahahaha yeah...just roll off into the grass
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Old 04-08-17, 04:36 PM
  #4044  
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Originally Posted by tobukog View Post
Only at Dick Lane, where riders are warming up on that ridiculous little oval on the infield
Meh.

Back in the day, riders warmed up by attacking from the gun.
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Old 04-08-17, 04:57 PM
  #4045  
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Originally Posted by gl98115 View Post
Meh.

Back in the day, riders warmed up by attacking from the gun.
Back in the day I'd sometimes lay off the back of a small field and take a run at them so I'd go flying by at the whistle. That didn't endear me to the older riders. Now I'm the older rider who grumbles...


gk
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Old 04-13-17, 07:24 AM
  #4046  
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Are these the right / best bolts to use?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BNZHERI...I30V5N5XKMMS7J
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Old 04-13-17, 11:12 AM
  #4047  
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Originally Posted by Ohbejoyful View Post
Are these the right / best bolts to use?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BNZHERI...I30V5N5XKMMS7J



They will work, but I have had them slip which causes it to be harden to tighten them. Campy or Dura Ace are my choice because they lock in the bore in the spider and are thus very easy to tighten.
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Old 04-13-17, 12:20 PM
  #4048  
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Originally Posted by Ohbejoyful View Post
Are these the right / best bolts to use?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BNZHERI...I30V5N5XKMMS7J
Since you don't mention the crankset you will be using them on it's hard to say.
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Old 04-13-17, 12:39 PM
  #4049  
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Originally Posted by gl98115 View Post
Since you don't mention the crankset you will be using them on it's hard to say.
Sorry, Omniums. I just found the knurled Sugino 75 bolts domestically so am good to go here. Thanks guys!
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Old 04-14-17, 04:49 PM
  #4050  
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They should fit, but the counterbore on omniums is too big for the serrated teeth to dig in.
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