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6 Houston area cyclists injured by pranking truck driver

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6 Houston area cyclists injured by pranking truck driver

Old 11-11-21, 11:37 AM
  #151  
CliffordK
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Originally Posted by Bulette View Post
There is an Arnold on Waller City Council, and another Arnold is a local lawyer. Any relations are speculative, but the lawyers and DA have loosely hinted at such.
Ahh, good point. It doesn't have to be the parents, but also extended family, aunts, uncles, etc.
Originally Posted by Bulette View Post
Since the driver is being charged as an adult and caught charges for all six cyclists struck, the outcome is fair enough so far. This is certainly more justice than many other cyclists ever receive.
I often give a driver the benefit of the doubt for an "accident".

SMIDSY, sorry I didn't see you mate.

This accident catches one's attention because the kid was apparently deliberately trying to harass the cyclists when he crashed. I still have to think the accident wasn't intentional, but the harassment leading to the accident apparently was intentional.

And, of course, we have to remember that real people got injured and suffered for weeks, months, years, or potentially for the rest of their lives because of this kid's pranking.
Originally Posted by JW Fas View Post
My solution? Require the kid to pay restitution for the replacement value of the bicycles plus the cyclists' medical bills, BUT don't reinstate his license until restitution has been paid in full. That means the kid will have to work a while to acquire the money, and his parents will be forced to drive him to his job every day. It appropriately punishes all parties for their failures.
I'm expecting actual damages of bikes, hospital bills, lost time at work, etc, including pain and suffering to exceed $1 Million. Potentially if it went to a lawsuit, it could go in excess of $5 Million.

That is flipping a lot of burgers for a 16 year old kid.

One transportation solution, of course, is bike commuting.
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Old 11-11-21, 12:41 PM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
There were questions earlier about the social standing of the parents. So far the kid hasn't been identified.

But, does anybody know who the parents are, identified as "Jason and Jennifer Arnold". Is there anything that would make them "special" with respect to the city/county?

There are taxes here:
Waller > Property Search Result

Nothing strikes me as too outrageous, at least for West Coast standards.

There are a couple of mentions of "Arnold Deer Processing" in the taxes which is a small market tucked in behind DiIorio Farmer's Market. But, no guarantee of any relationship to either business.

City/County ties?
Any particular reason you are trying to out the identity and address of the kid and his parents on a social media site? Doxing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxing
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Old 11-11-21, 01:21 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Any particular reason you are trying to out the identity and address of the kid and his parents on a social media site? Doxing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxing
I am just curious why early on there was some kind of belief that the kid was insulated due to family standings.

For better or worse, property taxes are public record across the USA.

I think @Bulette may have the answer that other family members may have been important in the choice not to initially even cite the kid on the scene for reckless driving or something similar. Grandparents? Aunts? Uncles? etc.

I find it to be extremely aggravating that a police officer or public official may have a "get out of jail free" for many of the same things they are routinely citing others for doing.

Personally, I would like public officials to be held to a higher standard than the general population.

In this case, I see this as apparent intentional harassment resulting in serious injuries. One might be able to ignore either one alone, road harassment (although there are new laws protecting all road users). Or, ignore a SMIDSY accident for criminal prosecution, still allowing civil responsibility. However, combine the two, and this becomes very serious.
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Old 11-11-21, 01:40 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Any particular reason you are trying to out the identity and address of the kid and his parents on a social media site? Doxing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxing

His parent's names were made public by either journalists or the attorneys in the civil case, and it was a rather obvious dodge around Texas' law requiring that the name of an accused juvenile not be disclosed. I think that's a legitimate complaint, but not really about Clifford as that cat's already out of the bag. I don't think repeating names that have already appeared in newspaper stories could remotely be described as doxxing (I prefer the 2 x spelling).
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Old 11-11-21, 03:28 PM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
A virtual electronic lynching conducted by an outraged mob on social media is much faster, no need for any legal niceties.
Dude, do you even ride?
To quote a bumper sticker: "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention."
He has admitted to causing this unfortunate incident (notice how I didn't use the "a" word there?). But I guess you're correct, the driver is assumed innocent until convicted by the law. Tut tut, let us all hope he gets a good slap on the wrist!
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Old 11-11-21, 04:52 PM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I am just curious why early on there was some kind of belief that the kid was insulated due to family standings.
Are you also curious how often "some kind of belief" that is totally fabricated to fit whatever agenda is being promoted is posted/reposted daily on umpteen media outlets by ignorant or gullible people or by deliberately deceitful people?

Read the national news headlines for the past 18 months, you may be shocked, shocked to learn that people repeat "some kind of belief" in all sorts of stuff that they want to believe, sometimes the belief may even turn out to be true, though for some the truth is secondary to the benefit thought to be gained by promoting "some kind of belief".
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Old 11-11-21, 05:34 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
His parent's names were made public by either journalists or the attorneys in the civil case, and it was a rather obvious dodge around Texas' law requiring that the name of an accused juvenile not be disclosed. I think that's a legitimate complaint, but not really about Clifford as that cat's already out of the bag. I don't think repeating names that have already appeared in newspaper stories could remotely be described as doxxing (I prefer the 2 x spelling).
Right,

I didn't see the parent's names mentioned until charges were issued. And, still the kid's name hasn't been disclosed, although I imagine a large circle of locals know who it was.

I didn't try to do any facial recognition, or otherwise uncover names that were not already disclosed publicly, the kid's name has to be out there somewhere. School, sports, etc.. Yet, I'm just going by the parent's info as that was mentioned as possibly tied to late charges.

I did presume business ties, and those were confirmed independently, along with more information in the Daily Beast article posted by another user.
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Are you also curious how often "some kind of belief" that is totally fabricated to fit whatever agenda is being promoted is posted/reposted daily on umpteen media outlets by ignorant or gullible people or by deliberately deceitful people?
So, please tell us what your explanation is for what was apparently a rather poor investigation at the scene. No charges, not even reckless driving. And, the whole thing might have been swept under the rug had the local cyclists involved not contacted the Waller County District Attorney, who then took over the case a few days later, and has been playing catch-up ever since.

From reading the news, do you believe the case was handled appropriately?
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Old 11-11-21, 05:48 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
So, please tell us what your explanation is for what was apparently a rather poor investigation at the scene. No charges, not even reckless driving. And, the whole thing might have been swept under the rug had the local cyclists involved not contacted the Waller County District Attorney, who then took over the case a few days later, and has been playing catch-up ever since.

From reading the news, do you believe the case was handled appropriately?
Do you believe family ties or nefarious business connections are the go-to explanations for all apparently poor preliminary investigations? Preliminary since the investigation and disposition of the case was not closed or swept under the rug no matter what some rather imaginative posters "believe," or speculate "might" have happened.

I do not have an explanation on the conduct of the investigation based on any inside knowledge of the preliminary investigation by the local police and neither do you or anyone else venting their opinions and biases on this matter.

What do you propose to do with your knowledge of the family identity, open up your own investigation of family connections to the police dept on the pages of BF?
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Old 11-11-21, 06:27 PM
  #159  
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There are two high profile trials that are being aired in Canada.

I got a feeling the driver's defence is that he felt his life was being threatened by all those unarmed cyclists.
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Old 11-11-21, 07:32 PM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
This accident catches one's attention because the kid was apparently deliberately trying to harass the cyclists when he crashed. I still have to think the accident wasn't intentional, but the harassment leading to the accident apparently was intentional.
In this case... no. This wasn't an "accident" where "I didn't see them" or "they suddenly rode out in front of me" or even "I got distracted by a billboard and hit them." As I noted earlier, this was caused SOLELY by the fact that this kid decided to make a ******bag move. If said move did more harm than he originally intended*, it's still not an "accident" since it was caused by his deliberate action. There was no accident in his choice to make risky and unsafe actions, which he made for the sole purpose of being a jerk for no reason, and other people paid for it.


*That's not counting-- even if he hadn't hit them, what if being bathed in exhaust caused one of the cyclists to have a respiratory incident, crash due to trying to avoid or being taken by surprise, etc. So I would say that even his original intention could have caused a fair amount of harm.
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Old 11-12-21, 06:23 AM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I do not have an explanation on the conduct of the investigation based on any inside knowledge of the preliminary investigation by the local police and neither do you or anyone else venting their opinions and biases on this matter
Maybe you should read the commentary from the lawyers and DA, if you don't trust the mainstream media to report their comments fairly.

"Through our own investigation, we’ve learned his name, his address, the names of his parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, neighbors and family friends. We know the names of the businesses owned and operated by the driver’s family"

"The driver’s family’s connections in Waller are a legitimate reason for concern, but I know that Charlie and Peter are very well versed in handling the challenges that nepotism can create."

https://www.bikelaw.com/2021/10/waller-bike-crash/
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Old 11-12-21, 07:49 AM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by Bulette View Post
Maybe you should read the commentary from the lawyers and DA, if you don't trust the mainstream media to report their comments fairly.

"Through our own investigation, we’ve learned his name, his address, the names of his parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, neighbors and family friends. We know the names of the businesses owned and operated by the driver’s family"

"The driver’s family’s connections in Waller are a legitimate reason for concern, but I know that Charlie and Peter are very well versed in handling the challenges that nepotism can create."

https://www.bikelaw.com/2021/10/waller-bike-crash/
I'd expect nothing less from blog/commentary/press releases expressing "concern" about possible "challenges", from the lawyers representing the bicyclists (as well as promoting their law firm business). It is "commentary" as are the posts on A&S, but hardly impartial nor a statement of fact about how or why the investigation has been handled so far. Nor is it evidence that the "whole thing might have been swept under the rug" due to nepotism or family connections

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Old 11-12-21, 10:44 AM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I'd expect nothing less from blog/commentary/press releases expressing "concern" about possible "challenges", from the lawyers representing the bicyclists (as well as promoting their law firm business). It is "commentary" as are the posts on A&S, but hardly impartial nor a statement of fact about how or why the investigation has been handled so far. Nor is it evidence that the "whole thing might have been swept under the rug" due to nepotism or family connections

I am with ILTB on this one. We should never concern ourselves with the possibility that small town good-ole-boy networks, money or nepotism could unduly influence an investigation.
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Old 11-12-21, 10:54 AM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I am with ILTB on this one. We should never concern ourselves with the possibility that small town good-ole-boy networks, money or nepotism could unduly influence an investigation.
Concern yourself all you like, that doesn't make speculation about a "possibility" a fact, but it does make grist for those with an ax to grind, an agenda to promote, a bias to repeat, or as a cute segue into YouTube clips and other references to favored stereotypes.

I have a concern about lawyers and law firms that drum up publicity with press releases to the public or posts on social media in order to promote their law practice or their version of a case, that doesn't mean that concern validates a "possibility" of that being the fact in this instance.

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Old 11-12-21, 12:37 PM
  #165  
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You would hope that discussion of such a possibility would take that off the table. I wouldn't think you would go that route if you had a higher chance of being caught up in it.
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Old 11-13-21, 06:22 AM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Are you also curious how often "some kind of belief" that is totally fabricated to fit whatever agenda is being promoted is posted/reposted daily on umpteen media outlets by ignorant or gullible people or by deliberately deceitful people?

Read the national news headlines for the past 18 months, you may be shocked, shocked to learn that people repeat "some kind of belief" in all sorts of stuff that they want to believe, sometimes the belief may even turn out to be true, though for some the truth is secondary to the benefit thought to be gained by promoting "some kind of belief".

So you have these two statements coming from the Waller County DA (not a blogger), and you think it's not legitimate to speculate as to their significance?

"This case was not handled appropriately by the investigating agency. PERIOD. Despite being encouraged by the Texas Department of Public Safety to treat the scene as a crime scene and to contact the D.A.‘s Office for advice on how to proceed, the investigating agency chose not to do so."

"There has been some online and community speculation that the incident was handled in the manner it was because of connections between the motorist and Waller city officials. At this point we can confirm there are some connections, but have yet to see evidence of a city official directing the officer on the scene as to how to handle this particular situation. We will continue to look for any such criminal interference as the investigation proceeds."

There's a confirmation FROM THE DA that the police did not properly do their job AND that the perpetrator had family connections to city officials. That last sentence is a pretty clear indication that the DA is actually investigating whether those two things are related. I don't think you have a clue how extraordinary these statements are. DAs generally don't say anything like this out loud. If anything, the admission that the scene was mishandled may help the defense at trial, so that mishandling has to be so gross that the DA believes that it's inevitable that the defense will be able to raise it without his help.

Keep in mind that hitting 6 separate people with one vehicle is something that should immediately be treated as an incident with a high likelihood of involving criminal activity. At a minimum, that's extraordinarily (probably criminally) bad driving, in this case he's being charged with an intentional assault.

Are you doing a parody of yourself here? You're so focused on your pet peeves that you're missing who's actually talking about the things you're claiming we shouldn't discuss.
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Old 11-13-21, 06:49 AM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Are you doing a parody of yourself here? You're so focused on your pet peeves that you're missing who's actually talking about the things you're claiming we shouldn't discuss.
If you don't feed it, it will starve and go elsewhere.

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Old 11-13-21, 07:21 AM
  #168  
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Maybe a more descriptive name for this list based on the content and tone of so many posts should be Accidents & Speculation.
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Old 11-13-21, 01:36 PM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Maybe a more descriptive name for this list based on the content and tone of so many posts should be Accidents & Speculation.

Zing?

Lame.

The chief of police admitted the crime scene was mishandled, the DA stated that the crime scene was mishandled and that the perpetrator was family of city officials, and the DA is investigating whether those were connected. A special prosecutor has been appointed. The perpetrator has been indicted on the felony charges I specified a while ago-- post 49. There's been no wild speculation on this thread other than someone prattling about a blind spot based on nothing.

You're just manufacturing a grievance against other posters because that's what you always do.

​​​​​And calling this one an "accident" really is begging the question. He's charged with an intentional assault.

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Old 11-14-21, 11:25 AM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post


Maybe a more descriptive name for this list based on the content and tone of so many posts should be Accidents & Speculation.
Lame.

...

You're just manufacturing a grievance against other posters because that's what you always do.
Can this thread be saved?

Originally Posted by Bald Paul View Post
If you don't feed it, it will starve and go elsewhere.


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Old 11-14-21, 01:46 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Can this thread be saved?
From what, exactly?

I'm pretty sure thatBald Paul wasn't accusing me of being the troll, btw, if that's what you're driving at.

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Old 11-14-21, 02:22 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
From what, exactly?

I'm pretty sure thatBald Paul wasn't accusing me of being the troll, btw, if that's what you're driving at.
I don't think you were the troll. But if you insist on feeding him, then stop complaining about what he posts.

Here is the thread you started in which you were complaining about exactly what you are engaged in with that troll.

https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/1234691-useless-forum-can-saved.html

So you can answer your own question what this thread can be saved from.

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Old 11-14-21, 03:09 PM
  #173  
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OK, Daniel4 that's a pretty reasonable point, so let's "save" the thread and steer it back into something worth discussing. I think this is an instance where social media actually played a really positive role for bicycle advocacy. We now have confirmation from the PD and the DA that the police did a substandard job of investigation at the scene which would have set this case for a non-criminal resolution. The judge's, the DA's and the police chief's comments all referred to the social media activity around this case, making it obvious that they were all feeling the pressure to do "something" about this case.

The DA's post and the indictment have both pretty much totally confirmed the content of the social media posts. None of this is a conviction, of course, but we're certainly at the point where it's more likely than not that the kid really did this as described.

I've been on the receiving end of a few intentional close passes. At best, they're acts of sadism, someone getting off by frightening another person with what is really a near-death experience. With the weight of the attacking vehicle and the small distances involved, missing or hitting the cyclist is largely a matter of luck.

This guy hit 6 people, this prosecution is a vital issue for advocacy because the message needs to be sent to drivers that if they "accidentally" hit a cyclist while terrorizing them, it's going to be treated as the serious intentional felony that it is. If this kid had been left uncharged, this would've been the declaration of an open season on bicyclists in Texas.
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Old 11-14-21, 03:19 PM
  #174  
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It almost seems like Post #39 in this mess wasn't that far off after all.
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Old 11-14-21, 03:55 PM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I've been on the receiving end of a few intentional close passes. At best, they're acts of sadism, someone getting off by frightening another person with what is really a near-death experience. With the weight of the attacking vehicle and the small distances involved, missing or hitting the cyclist is largely a matter of luck.
I don't attribute malice to close passes. Of course, it is possible that the kid above tried to ruffle feathers by passing closely.

But, I've had numerous people yell something unintelligible at me. In one case a yell, and tossing a bag of garbage about 10 feet from me.
CliffordK is offline  

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