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Riding on 40-55mph Road?

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Riding on 40-55mph Road?

Old 11-13-21, 02:06 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Also true of roads. If there's curves, riding the center of a two-lane 50 mph or more road may be absolutely suicidal as the vehicles coming around the curve are very likely to overtake you before they know you're there. You can't influence the driver's behavior if they don't know you're there. I'm in New England, there aren't a lot of straight two lane roads outside of town.
That is one of the reasons I very much favor riding on shoulders, or on the fog line if necessary.

You may be where the cars simply aren't driving. But, even if they have to do a minor course correction, it takes an instant for a car to move over a foot or two, and they may be able to do so even with oncoming traffic.

If a cyclist is in the middle of the road, it would take a major course correction. And, if there is oncoming traffic, there may not be any place to go other than slamming on the brakes.

Rain? Fog? Other factors limiting visibility?
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Old 11-13-21, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
That is one of the reasons I very much favor riding on shoulders, or on the fog line if necessary.

You may be where the cars simply aren't driving. But, even if they have to do a minor course correction, it takes an instant for a car to move over a foot or two, and they may be able to do so even with oncoming traffic.

If a cyclist is in the middle of the road, it would take a major course correction. And, if there is oncoming traffic, there may not be any place to go other than slamming on the brakes.

Rain? Fog? Other factors limiting visibility?

Where sight lines permit, I am out in the lane as traffic approaches from behind. I always give multiple quick looks over my shoulder to let the driver know that I know they are there. I even do a little light weaving as I do this. I hope being in the lane and the light weaving makes me more conspicuous. I use high vis and a taillight as well. As they close in, I move right and wave. All the while, I am looking for a bailout route. I will use a shoulder if one is available. In higher speed or higher traffic density areas, this doesn't work as well. I use it extensively on lightly traveled 55 and under rural roads.
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Old 11-13-21, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
You don't control the lane. You assume lane position in hopes of influencing driver behavior.
Yes, yes, and birth control doesn't "control" birth, either, but we all know what is meant. Controlling the lane is simply a tested and effective technique to maximize your visibility and encourage safe passing by other road users.

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Old 11-13-21, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Is that a marked bike lane going down the middle of what looks like a freeway? How miserable!!!

It reminds me of this clip of Russian cyclists from a couple of years back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvnS7GPrVnU

Cyclists were lane spliting. And, a truck went straight from a turn-only lane.
Left is The Highway.
Right is the ON Ramp.
Riding area is Just a Lane Marking to Divide the On Ramp.
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Old 11-13-21, 05:47 PM
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I'm fortunate to live in a very bike friendly place and there are still roads and specific intersections I avoid.

To the OP, are there any actual pedestrians on these sidewalks? Or anyone at all? I mean away from I-10 anyhow. There's not much out there but golf courses and it's hot.
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Old 11-13-21, 08:02 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
Left is The Highway.
Right is the ON Ramp.
Riding area is Just a Lane Marking to Divide the On Ramp.
Ok, so you are somewhere near here.
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.3015...7i16384!8i8192

Your lane is disappearing quickly.

I would try to get over to the left shoulder as soon as possible. Then, if you need to cut across an off-ramp, do that once you get to a point where there once again is a median strip.
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Old 11-13-21, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Ok, so you are somewhere near here.
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.3015...7i16384!8i8192

Your lane is disappearing quickly.

I would try to get over to the left shoulder as soon as possible. Then, if you need to cut across an off-ramp, do that once you get to a point where there once again is a median strip.
No we had to be sure the On Ramp Right ,Lane was Clear.
We do that ride to Galveston about 10 Times a year. It is 85 miles for me.
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Last edited by 10 Wheels; 11-13-21 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 11-14-21, 03:56 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Is that a marked bike lane going down the middle of what looks like a freeway? How miserable!!!
Yeah, I'm imagining the idiot who has either realized they need to be in an exit-only lane, or realizes they're in one when they don't want to be, making a sudden swerve without looking...
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Old 11-14-21, 11:04 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Kat12 View Post
Yeah, I'm imagining the idiot who has either realized they need to be in an exit-only lane, or realizes they're in one when they don't want to be, making a sudden swerve without looking...
LEFT is The Three Lane Highway 45 S to Galveston.
To the Right is an On Ramp to the highway.
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Last edited by 10 Wheels; 11-14-21 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 12-20-21, 11:09 AM
  #35  
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My typical traffic encounter. I experience this somewhere between a few and dozens of times per ride:
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Old 12-20-21, 11:52 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
My typical traffic encounter. I experience this somewhere between a few and dozens of times per ride: https://youtu.be/Cnu1Mtau7JA

So I can guarantee that if I were to ride in that position on the lane on that kind of road around here (NH), the drivers would not be that polite and careful about it, especially in the situation with the second passer.
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Old 12-20-21, 12:02 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
So I can guarantee that if I were to ride in that position on the lane on that kind of road around here (NH), the drivers would not be that polite and careful about it, especially in the situation with the second passer.
I love the "our drivers would kill you" posts that never seem to be supported by actual data. Granted, I've only ridden in 8 or 10 states on urban, suburban, and rural roads, and have only been doing so for decades and tens of thousands of miles, so you may be right. You may live in the one place inhabited by homicidal drivers who routinely run over people, animals, and objects in the middle of the road.

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Old 12-20-21, 12:35 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
I love the "our drivers would kill you" posts that never seem to be supported by actual data. Granted, I've only ridden in 8 or 10 states on urban, suburban, and rural roads, and have only been doing so for decades and tens of thousands of miles, so you may be right. You may live in the one place inhabited by homicidal drivers who routinely run over people, animals, and objects in the middle of the road.

BB
What makes you think I haven't ridden tens (possibly 100s) of thousands of miles in several states? Spoiler alert--I have.
I have spoken to many people who have, as I have, ridden throughout much of the country, and there is a general consensus among them that NH drivers are uniquely hostile to cyclists at a very high level. I grew up in the midwest, I've done extensive riding in California, I did a lot of riding in the New Orleans area, I've ridden quite a bit in Massachusetts and Maine, and there's just no comparison. I was quite shocked by it when I started riding in NH in the early 2000s. A NH driver might very well have deliberately gone into the opposite lane before the car in the opposite lane had cleared him just out of spite. I've come very close to getting hit by the oncoming car in just that situation a couple of times. The oncoming car gets forced into doing the reverse lane switch, it's a game of chicken.

But yeah, tell me to believe you before I believe my lying eyes.

People ride in NH ride with this knowledge and adapt their strategies accordingly. Exactly what "data" do you think would "prove" that?

The best data I have about this is I NEVER see a rider in NH taking that position in the lane except when they're getting ready for a left hand turn. When I have to take the lane to do things like left turns, I have had people deliberately speed up to try to force me out of the lane, had stuff thrown at me, been screamed at and I basically don't even notice the random honking anymore.

And not for nothing, but there aren't a lot of straight lines on comparable NH roads. You'd be relying on the drivers' abilities to slow down when they round the curve and see you for the first time.

Oh, BTW, NH also has a remarkable amount of road kill.
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Old 12-20-21, 12:43 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
Granted, I've only ridden in 8 or 10 states
That's it? Quick count (for North America) yields 23 U.S. states (many, if not most, more than once), one Mexican state and four Canadian provinces. (Have also ridden in Italy for a total of about three weeks and Andalucia, Spain for seven weeks.)

During my September tour I rode through 5 states (VT, MA, NY, NJ and PA) alone. Courteousness of drivers can (and did) vary widely, even between different areas of a state. NY was definitely the worst. especially when you include the people with CT plates driving in NY. Rural/semis-rural MA is generally pretty good, but there is also a reason why MA drivers are often referred to as "M*******s." VT continues to be the best overall of those five.

Edit: I seem to forget WY & CO a lot. Total updated.

Last edited by indyfabz; 12-20-21 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 12-20-21, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
My typical traffic encounter. I experience this somewhere between a few and dozens of times per ride: https://youtu.be/Cnu1Mtau7JA
terrifying, but I guess you get used to something like that? great video btw
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Old 12-20-21, 12:49 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
LEFT is The Three Lane Highway 45 S to Galveston.
To the Right is an On Ramp to the highway.
some of yooz ppl have solid bras b*lls. just sayin'
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Old 12-20-21, 12:54 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
No we had to be sure the On Ramp Right ,Lane was Clear.
We do that ride to Galveston about 10 Times a year. It is 85 miles for me.
that sunshine looks fabulous!
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Old 12-20-21, 01:05 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
What makes you think I... .
<oddly self absorbed rant deleted>

Try the decaf sometime.
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Old 12-20-21, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
That's it? Quick count (for North America) yields 21 U.S. states (many, if not most, more than once), one Mexican state and four Canadian provinces. (Have also ridden in Italy for a total of about three weeks and Andalucia, Spain for seven weeks.)

During my September tour I rode through 5 states (VT, MA, NY, NJ and PA) alone. Courteousness of drivers can (and did) vary widely, even between different areas of a state. NY was definitely the worst. especially when you include the people with CT plates driving in NY. Rural/semis-rural MA is generally pretty good, but there is also a reason why MA drivers are often referred to as "M*******s." VT continues to be the best overall of those five.

It'll be a cold day in hell the next time I ride through Fitchburg, MA. There's just some towns and cities that hate bicycles.
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Old 12-20-21, 01:16 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
<oddly self absorbed rant deleted>

Try the decaf sometime.

Repeated unwarranted condescension noted.
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Old 12-20-21, 01:20 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
My typical traffic encounter. I experience this somewhere between a few and dozens of times per ride: https://youtu.be/Cnu1Mtau7JA
Is the surface of the shoulder the lane to the cyclist's right the same as the road? It appears to at least 3 or 4 feet wide of clean uninterrupted hard surface. If so, why not ride on it and avoid potential high speed conflicts for yourself and other drivers?
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Old 12-20-21, 02:12 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Is the surface of the shoulder the lane to the cyclist's right the same as the road? It appears to at least 3 or 4 feet wide of clean uninterrupted hard surface. If so, why not ride on it and avoid potential high speed conflicts for yourself and other drivers?
You never know when you might be right hooked by someone running off the road into the ditch.

I would have asked him that, but I really wasn't terribly interested in the answer which will no doubt carry us all into the VC ditch.
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Old 12-20-21, 02:17 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Is the surface of the shoulder the lane to the cyclist's right the same as the road? It appears to at least 3 or 4 feet wide of clean uninterrupted hard surface. If so, why not ride on it and avoid potential high speed conflicts for yourself and other drivers?
In the first place, shoulders aren't bike lanes, and in the second place, it is 8-10 inches wide, broken in places, absent in others, and frequently littered with gravel or glass.Even if it were 3-4 feet wide, that would put my elbow perilously close to a vehicle operating in the lane, and would violate traffic laws. Shoulders are there for road maintenance purposes and for emergency stopping. They aren't a slow moving vehicle lane.

FWIW, farm equipment, mail trucks, school busses, horse drawn buggies, and slow drivers also operate on this road and roads like it. The potential for "high speed conflicts" is mitigated by existing traffic laws regarding safe operation of all vehicles, passing, and lane markers. In the absence of a minimum speed limit, the onus is on passing vehicles to safely pass slower vehicles.
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Old 12-20-21, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
In the first place, shoulders aren't bike lanes, and in the second place, it is 8-10 inches wide, broken in places, absent in others, and frequently littered with gravel or glass.Even if it were 3-4 feet wide, that would put my elbow perilously close to a vehicle operating in the lane, and would violate traffic laws. Shoulders are there for road maintenance purposes and for emergency stopping. They aren't a slow moving vehicle lane.
I'll take your word for the practical considerations, but you have the law quite wrong. Missouri statute 307.191 specifically permits the riding of bicycles on the shoulder as long as you're below the posted speed limit or flow of traffic.
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Old 12-21-21, 11:41 AM
  #50  
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I think in more states than MO you'll find that slow moving traffic or specifically bicycles are exempted from the prohibition of riding on the shoulders. However in many situations I'd just find being on the shoulder more risky. Many of them things that bbbean mentioned. There are quite a few roads around me with 50 mph and faster traffic that the width of the shoulders varies constantly and in some places is non existent. And non existent always being in the worst place for someone not in the traffic lanes to suddenly be in the traffic lanes. Couple that with shoulders that end at an already narrow bridge and to me that is a recipe for more risk than just being in the traffic lane so other traffic knows what to expect.

While from my perspective, if I was on the shoulder coming up to a bridge it's understandable that I'll have to get in the traffic lane of the bridge and slow someone down. However that first car behind me in the traffic lane might get more annoyed at me for not stopping at the bridge and waiting for them to pass even though there are other cars behind them and I'm going to have to take my chances of P.O.'ing one of them. If I was already in the traffic lane and never used the shoulder, then from the motorist perspective it might not bother most of them to slow down for me since the other situation never entered their minds.
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