downhillmaster

King bias has spoken

rydabent

OTOH Im quite sure that a good percentage of "accident" are caused by cell phones these days. Cell phones should shut down if moving faster than 10 mph!!!!!!!!!!

rydabent

OTOH Im quite sure that a good percentage of "accident" are caused by cell phones these days. Cell phones should shut down if moving faster than 10 mph!!!!!!!!!!

indyfabz

Source? None, as usual.

indyfabz

I haven’t found any details. Do you know that he didn’t do something like come off the sidewalk between parked cars in front of the striking vehicle?

Richard Cranium

I don't see any problem. Everyone knows bicycles belong on sidewalks. There is no reason for an adult to be clogging traffic by riding on any street in the US

Clearly, the public has a right to know when people create dangerous situations by riding bicycles out in the street. Journalists have a responsibility to warn the public of these weirdos creating traffic hazards and posing risks to motorist's peace of mind.

I feel very lucky that I didn't have to pay for the car door I dented and passenger window I shattered with my hip and shoulder when a motorist steered his Toyota right into my path while riding on a bight, sunny afternoon. Luckily I got off with only $47,000 in medical bills.

The police report "proves" exactly what happened..... If you ride a bicycle than take the time to get out of the way of cars from any direction.

jack pot 

... I'm living through a 25K+ med bill now caused by a swipe but riding the streets are a must because the sidewalks are FORBIDDEN BY LAW in most places...OTOH why should one obey a dangerous law

mr_bill

Do you know there is NO SIDEWALK? BTW, how do you ride between a SINGLE PARKED CAR?

-mr. bill

genec

Again, and for the umpteenth time... the reason you never get all the facts on cellphonitis or even all the facts regarding the cause of collisions with cyclists is that often there is an inadequate investigation; facts are not collected and data, such as cell phone use at the time require a warrant, which is not pursued. The bottom line is that statistics regarding cyclists in traffic collisions is woefully under-reported. Cyclists themselves may eschew contact with authorities by simply picking up the pieces and leaving the scene.

Yet, in spite of the lack of "certified data," there is plenty of anecdotal evidence... anyone standing on a busy street corner for any length of time can clearly observe the popular use of the cell phone and see that this use may conflict with traffic decisions from time to time.

mr_bill

The "no details" include the detail that there is no sidewalk
The "no details" include the detail that there was ONE parked car.

So tell me, why do you all speculate when you don't know what you are taking about?

-mr. bill

mr_bill

There are details, but keep claiming there are no details.

The swerve crowd, the sidewalk crowd, the parked cars [plural] crowd, and the cell phone crowd are all the same crowd.

-mr. bill

mr_bill

Of course it could never happen to you. You'd never be riding an 80 cm frame.

BTW, anything in the details about cell phones? Swerving? Sidewalks? Multiple parked cars? Anything?

(I sure hope Shawn Bradley isn't reading this "stuff" at bikeforums at his hospital.)

-mr. bill

I-Like-To-Bike

Yada, yada. The same can be said for the "facts" about UFO sightings or the facts as professed by the purveyors of various religions.Constant repetition of belief in unverified "facts"/fabrications and anecdotes doesn't make it so but that won't stop the true believers/fear-mongers from prattling on about their "facts."

genec

Not an apples to apples comparison, at all.

• In the case of cyclists and traffic situations... there we are fighting a general public bias ("roads are for cars, bicycles are toys") and the subsequent lack of official statistics due to that bias.
• In the case of UFOs, there are active agencies trying to maintain secrecy regarding any information on such sightings. (there is a declassified report due out in a few months.... so that should be interesting, but of course we will only hear/read what those agencies are willing to release... there will continue to be "official denials.")
• And in the case of religion, it is a matter of indoctrinated fears and beliefs by authority figures that clouds the facts, and promotes blind belief.

The end results ARE about the same... a lack of real data about any of the above... but the reasons for the lack of data are vastly different.

I-Like-To-Bike

And in all cases of the above, biased proselytizers and/or fearmongors continue to repeat the same baseless accusations, cast blame, and/or cite their favorite boogeymen as the reason/cause for the occurrence of specific events for which they have no evidence. And reinforce each others' certitude that the repetition of such third hand anecdotes, fabrications and Internet based chatter is a suitable substitute for presentation of evidence.

merlinextraligh

Here’s an actual account of what happened. https://apple.news/AjznsegygQXC922Ixrzalqw

the actual fault for the accident can be debated. From the account it appears the driver clearly didn’t give Bradley sufficient room. However, depending how abruptly Bradley moved left, and whether he did it while still in front of the car, or after the car was already up to him, there may be an argument that he had some fault as well.

Regardless of the precise facts of the accident, the abhorrent fact is that the driver did not stop to render assistance and yet wasn’t charged with leaving the scene

merlinextraligh

And I know I will be shouted down for blaming the cyclist, and that’s not my intent. However, there is a teachable moment here.

Often, it’s safest to fully take the lane, when safe to do so before entering a roundabout. If Bradley would have moved in front of the van, with sufficient room, and making eye contact with driver before doing so, he wouldn’t be paralyzed today.

obviously it is easy to second guess. But the takeaway going forward is take the Lane before entering roundabouts.

in fact many in our area are marked for bikes to do just that.

Sp again not blaming Bradley, but just an opportunity for other cyclists to learn

RayHenry

This right here: .

When I was hit, this is exactly what the driver who hit me told the cops when he was tracked down. This is no surprise, I've learned over the years since. Far too many people out there have no idea where their vehicle ends. Now, when in a position where lane splitting may be a danger to me as a rider, I take the lane. Yes, I've had annoyed drivers honk, yell, swear, accelerate hard around me. But they have all moved right out of the lane to get around me, leaving me lots of room.

jon c. 

Seems an odd analogy.

Are you suggesting that accidents for which the proximate cause can be tied to cell phone use are as speculative as the presence of UFOs?

Do you question the existence of both because you lack adequate documentation?

I-Like-To-Bike

For some A&S posters, cell phone use and/or texting are the so-called "proximate cause" [whatever that is supposed to mean] and "tied" to any and every collision where the actual facts about the cause are unknown.

These irrational/emotional A&S types are hardly alone in claiming/speculating that unexplained events/mishaps are caused by God's will, or perhaps whatever boogeyman, evil doer, evil device, or other-worldly presence trips their trigger.

livedarklions

Look, you can't write something like that and deny you're blaming the victim--you're literally saying he caused his own crippling. You have absolutely no way of knowing that statement is true other than your assumptions about the situation. Even the driver didn't claim she didn't see him. And eye contact? What the hell? She was behind him, he's supposed to turn his head 180 degrees?

I'll be damned if I can understand why people are so anxious around here to use someone else's crippling as a "teachable moment".

merlinextraligh

there is a distinction between assigning blame for an incident, and using information learned from an incident to improve practices going forward.

you’re not legally at fault or blameworthy if you don’t take the lane in a roundabout and get clipped by a poor or inattentive driver.

that does not alter the fact that the best practice in many circumstances is to take the lane before entering a roundabout.

It is an unfortunate reality that automobile drivers are going to do things that put cyclists at risk.

As cyclists, we should learn as best we can to protect ourselves. Using this tragic incident to teach other cyclists is about the only productive thing that possibly can come from this thread

livedarklions

It isn't just the "it's always a cell phone." There's also the "it's always bad lane position", "it's always cyclist wearing headphones", "it's always DUI", "it's always a jerk in a black pickup", and then there's the basic "it's always the drivers' fault" or "always the cyclist's fault."

A&S is literally just a collection of fault lines.

merlinextraligh

Eye contact is one of the few, and one of the best tools we have to survive in traffic. Drivers often don’t “see” us. Even if the physically see us, they often don’t perceive us as human beings. Making actual eye contact with a driver before you move in front of them greatly improves your chances that they see you and perceive you as a human they shouldn’t kill.

if you look them in the eye, and they don’t acknowledge you then you’re at least forewarned.

So hell yes, if at all possible I’m making eye contact with a driver before I move into or in front of their lane of travel

If you’re not making eye contact with the drivers of cars around you, you’re unnecessarily increasing your own risk

merlinextraligh

My comment is specific to lane position in this particular circumstance, as relayed by the cyclist himself.

in the vast majority of circumstances, it is preferable to take the lane before entering a roundabout, to avoid precisely what happened here, provided you have space to do so safely.

Trying to pass on that point to people who may have not been taught that or have had that experience is the sort of thing this form should be about.

Are you arguing that cyclists shouldn’t take the lane before entering a roundabout? If that s your claim, you could tell us why you think that and we could have a rational conversation.