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Black Ice | WEDGE ISSUE WARNING

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Black Ice | WEDGE ISSUE WARNING

Old 01-09-22, 08:56 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
just don't try to put a foot down & get off the bike! ;-)
Yes, I was very much aware that the tires had much better traction than my feet!
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Old 01-10-22, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by sweeks
Yes, I was very much aware that the tires had much better traction than my feet!
only mentioned it cuz I went down myself for that reason the other night
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Old 01-10-22, 05:58 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
only mentioned it cuz I went down myself for that reason the other night
BTDT!!
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Old 01-10-22, 07:35 AM
  #29  
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You guys are cycling studs, riding in those conditions. My arbitrary cut off is 32 and I've been re-thinking that this year.
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Old 01-10-22, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
You guys are cycling studs, riding in those conditions. My arbitrary cut off is 32 and I've been re-thinking that this year.
go for it. your odds of regretting it are 50/50 hehe. it's like buying a car, always be willing to walk away. meaning, if it's truly horrible, just stop & got home

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Old 01-10-22, 08:20 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
just don't try to put a foot down & get off the bike! ;-)
BTDT x2

Long story from before I moved to a home office: we had slushy snow falling on frozen & untreated roads, I was happily biking home from work on the shoulder of a county road without a clue how bad the roads were. After 6-8 miles, I was coming up to a red light and put a foot down, my boot slipped out, and I barely stayed upright. Then I noticed cars where locking up, spinning, and sliding on the road. I quickly rerouted to the longer route on separated bike trails.

Winter tires on a bike a amazing!

Last edited by Hypno Toad; 01-11-22 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 01-10-22, 08:21 AM
  #32  
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Personally, I don't ride on frozen lakes. Also, this year I've been riding mostly without studs, favoring wide (43 mm) gravel tires at low pressure. This is where Hypnotoad and I differ. Both of us go down now and again. On Saturday it was warm (in the 20s) and I went down emerging from a driveway and hitting something in between thick slush and hardpack, just as I cornered onto the street. I don't think that was a studs vs. no studs issue - the whole corner of frozen stuff gave way and the fault was mostly my inattention. Just a bruise on my hip to show for it.

And yesterday it was colder.... (graph is in °F, high temperatures are of course the time it takes for the Wahoo to cool down after I leave the house). No studs on the tires. Not one in the saddle either really. It's not so bad when you know how to dress.

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Old 01-10-22, 08:36 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
BTDT x2

Long story from before I moved to a home office: we had slushy snow falling on frozen & untreated roads, I was happily biking home from work on the shoulder of a county road without a clue how bad the roads were. After 6-8 miles, I was coming up to a red light and put a foot down, my boot slipped out, and I barely stayed upright. Than I noticed cars where locking up, spinning, and sliding on the road. I quickly rerouted to the longer route on separated bike trails.

Winter tires on a bike a amazing!
Yes, this is an issue. There are times when I trust my control better than that of the cars around me. We're lucky to have so many bike trails around here, and that many of them are plowed well and efficiently.
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Old 01-10-22, 10:14 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
Personally, I don't ride on frozen lakes. Also, this year I've been riding mostly without studs, favoring wide (43 mm) gravel tires at low pressure. This is where Hypnotoad and I differ. Both of us go down now and again. On Saturday it was warm (in the 20s) and I went down emerging from a driveway and hitting something in between thick slush and hardpack, just as I cornered onto the street. I don't think that was a studs vs. no studs issue - the whole corner of frozen stuff gave way and the fault was mostly my inattention. Just a bruise on my hip to show for it.
Cross-street sluff is awful on every tire I've tried, I tried it with studs, without studs, and from 28mm to 4". The snow-sludge cars drag from quiet local streets/driveways onto the shoulders of busy streets just sucks! It's unpredictable and difficult to control. I'll move to the traffic lane when I can, and when I can't ... try to float it and pucker up!

Hope your bruises heal up quick ... I always hate those hip bruises waking me up at night when I roll on to 'the wrong side'.
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Old 01-10-22, 07:30 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
... try to float it and pucker up!
"pucker up"!
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Old 01-10-22, 07:35 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
There are times when I trust my control better than that of the cars around me.
With studded tires, you *have* better control than the cars!
At the train station in my town, I have on occasion had friendly competition with cars to see who can get to the stop sign at the parking lot's exit at the top of a hill. When there's snow or ice on the street, I can easily beat a car, which is invariably spinning its tires and going nowhere. I'm not sure if the drivers understand that it's not a fair fight!
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Old 01-10-22, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
You guys are cycling studs, riding in those conditions. My arbitrary cut off is 32 and I've been re-thinking that this year.
If you have the right clothing, the cold is nothing to fear. I've been out in minus 20 F and come back sweating (which could be a problem in itself!
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Old 01-14-22, 10:09 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by sweeks
If you have the right clothing, the cold is nothing to fear. I've been out in minus 20 F and come back sweating (which could be a problem in itself!
Don't mind the cold with the right clothing. It's the wind chills and freezing rain that hit home hard.
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Old 01-15-22, 05:03 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Pugs2xLove
Don't mind the cold with the right clothing. It's the wind chills and freezing rain that hit home hard.
cold rain, or worse, cold snow, right around freezing, that clings to anything, is pretty rough
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Old 01-15-22, 08:48 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Pugs2xLove
Don't mind the cold with the right clothing. It's the wind chills and freezing rain that hit home hard.
Heh... there's always going to be wind chill unless you're walking your bike! Freezing rain is a problem, but the right clothing makes it survivable.
The clothing I wear in the winter is waterproof, and also wind-proof. SOmetimes my eyes water though!
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Old 01-15-22, 08:54 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by sweeks
Heh... there's always going to be wind chill unless you're walking your bike! Freezing rain is a problem, but the right clothing makes it survivable.
The clothing I wear in the winter is waterproof, and also wind-proof. SOmetimes my eyes water though!
I rarely have issues with watery eyes (goggles fix that problem). Seeing where you're at, how much snow dump did you get in your area? We got about a foot in my town from yesterday's storm.
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Old 01-15-22, 11:00 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Pugs2xLove
I rarely have issues with watery eyes (goggles fix that problem). Seeing where you're at, how much snow dump did you get in your area? We got about a foot in my town from yesterday's storm.
I've tried to find goggles that I can wear over my (very necessary) glasses, but haven't been successful. Luckily, the eye-watering only lasts a few minutes and then I'm fine.
We haven't had *any* snow lately.* I can see the odd flake now, but we've had no accumulation for a couple weeks. I'm hoping it stays that way so I can go out on the lake again... the last few days have been above freezing, so it may take time to re-freeze to a safe depth. If I see ice fishing, I feel safe.
*I'm about 40 miles NW of the City.
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Old 01-16-22, 01:54 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
just don't try to put a foot down & get off the bike! ;-)
chuckled at that one, last winter i rode on a river that looked a lot like the ones shown here, and all was fine if i kept the bike vertical enough for the studs to properly contact, and yes, veeeeeeeery carefully put a foot down.

a real laugh riding on that river, almost like glass in places.
rode on a frozen skating canal as a kid, but most of the ice had been skated on and slightly snowy, so it wad doable.
going back 45 years probably.
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Old 01-16-22, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gecho
Ponded water that freezes is super hard studs will scratch it but not get much grip. I encounter that mostly when riding on a creek and going under a bridge that keeps the ice clear of snow. Also a big problem in the spring during the nightly re-freezes.

Freezing rain is similar in its hardness to pond ice. Maybe its not so much the hardness as the uniformity. Other types of ice have a jagged texture where grip can be found.

With either of those types of ice you have to be super careful with any kind of side sloping on the road / path. Gravity pulls you to the low side, trying to steer against the pull will make the front tire slip out. Sometimes I'll just let it carry me off into the grass. Many times that isn't an option because the low side has curb, railing or pile of snow so I just come to a stop before trying to get out of the hole.


I like breaking frozen puddles, but you need be be careful doing that. If the ice is really thin it just shatters. But at a certain thickness you just carve a channel the same width as your wheel. Its like riding in a really narrow rut and the wheel will fight any attempt to steer which can throw off your balance. Not much of a problem on a short puddle, but beyond about a bicycle length you could get into trouble.

One of my fav kinds of ice is refrozen slush, grippy and makes a nice popping noise.
this thread is fun to read. I'm in Canada and have skated, skied, biked, driven and even motorcycled in the snow and ice, so its neat to read of the observations written here about the varying surfaces of ice, snow , whatever that we encounter on two wheels.

Ice really does have so many different textures doesnt it?, and now that Ive been using studded tires for winter commuting, its less mental work of having to be ultra observant of what the surface is and going with experience what traction you are going to have for a given tire situation.

I like to see the comment about off camber situations and ice, and just letting the bike go with the camber sometimes , ie not leaning, and just let yourself go until you get to snow or textured ice or whatever where you can get some grip. You learn that downhill and cross coiuntry skiing, there are times you just dont fight it and go until you come to a different surface, no point in putting in turning input or leaning, just like with skiis, cuz you'll be on your arse fast.

what ive found interesting is that with friends I ride with, some have no instincts for this stuff, and its hard sometimes to explain to someone stuff who didnt goof around on bikes as a kid where you learn all about crashing and sliding out, and this stuff stays with you--well, I guess some people just dont have the aptitude and never learn, but those of us who loved doing it as kids or as adults, it certainly makes like easier on two wheels for sussing out traction and instinctively knowing body language to use for given situations.

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Old 01-16-22, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
Cross-street sluff is awful on every tire I've tried, I tried it with studs, without studs, and from 28mm to 4". The snow-sludge cars drag from quiet local streets/driveways onto the shoulders of busy streets just sucks! It's unpredictable and difficult
I've found that these "snow sludge" conditions that happen here with steady heavy snowfall mixed in with salt, are the hardest to ride in.
Completely slippy and "greasy" as I call it, and the most workout I ever get riding to work. I haven't ridden on as many tire combos as you, but a few, and its always been just plain hard and a heck of a workout.
Riding in this stuff certainly adds to my tally of not putting a foot down while getting a serious front end push and big understeer and maintaining power to keep moving so the understeer finishes and you keep going.

tomorrow we are supposed to be getting 15-25cms and a high of -5c so it probably is going to get greasy.....
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Old 01-16-22, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by djb
what ive found interesting is that with friends I ride with, some have no instincts for this stuff, and its hard sometimes to explain to someone stuff who didnt goof around on bikes as a kid where you learn all about crashing and sliding out, and this stuff stays with you--well, I guess some people just dont have the aptitude and never learn, but those of us who loved doing it as kids or as adults, it certainly makes like easier on two wheels for sussing out traction and instinctively knowing body language to use for given situations.
I think that is insightful and so true. I actually took my 9 year old out on the bike during the last snowfall expressly to teach him about locking up the rear, powersliding, fishtailing and that kind of stuff. He rides somewhat, like with us on errands or to school, but he really doesn’t go out and play on his bike like I used to. He’s very much a kid of the computer era, if you know what I mean.


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Old 01-16-22, 09:25 PM
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If figure all the times ive crashed on two wheels has gone into a database in my brain that hopefully helps not repeat the same crash, touch wood.
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Old 01-16-22, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by djb
If figure all the times ive crashed on two wheels has gone into a database in my brain that hopefully helps not repeat the same crash, touch wood.
There's a section that used to be on one of my frequent winter routes that had a hazard - a crevice that the plows partially exposed, and then covered over with a light coating of packed snow - on the right hand side, over near the cur. I managed to find it and go down twice in the same winter. Same exact place.

I hope your brain's database is better than mine.
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Old 01-16-22, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
I hope your brain's database is better than mine.
unlikely, I'll probably crash tomorrow like a dumbass..... (I'm still touching wood here! )

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Old 01-16-22, 10:39 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
Also, been there, done that ... and I've got it on YouTube (of course I do! )
https://youtu.be/p58OCgvqDgo
As a "Glas half full " sort of guy, what i immediately thought was at least you didn't fall into the damn creek!
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