AnthroMom

Hello Geeks on Wheels: please be kind, this is my first thread.

I've got a new Electra Townie 8i being assembled, and asked my LBS to build a new front wheel around a dynamo hub. "Jerry" said sure, and he'd call me after the weekend with prices and a time estimate since they didn't have the hub in stock.

Today he tried to talk me out of getting it. Shimano, he said, was out of the hub until March, and anyway, that kind of lighting system "is more popular in Europe; it's for people who use their bike instead of a car." "Right," I replied, "that's what I'm planning." "Well, in 30 years of working on bikes, I've seen this maaaybe twice. We just don't sell those in the U.S."

Ahem.

A brief web search found me many, many Shimano dynamo hubs for sale, and I called Jerry back to be sure I ordered the right model for my Electra rim. He wasn't thrilled with my call or familiar with the different models at all. The shop is much more about (1) racing, (2) touring, and (3) kids' bikes, with urban bikes a very distant fourth place.

Here's my Q: How hard is it for an experienced wheel-builder to build around a Shimano dynamo hub and install the lights? Should I be looking for someone with more enthusiasm and that particular experience?

P.S. Thanks for the info in this forum. I ordered these from Harris: Busch & Müller Lumotec IQ CYO R-Plus SENSO, Toplite Line Plus Rack Mount Generator Taillight, and coaxial wire for the tail light.

Sixty Fiver

Building the generator wheel is as easy as building any wheel and hooking up the light to the hub is pretty much plug and play... if your shop does not think that generator hubs have a place on this side of the pond they are well behind the times.

AnthroMom

Thanks, Sixty Fiver. That's reassuring -- I can pay him to build the wheel, and I can set up the light if needed.

if your shop does not think that generator hubs have a place on this side of the pond they are well behind the times.

My thought exactly!

Sirrus Rider

Your LBS person needs to pull his head out of his anus, break out his Mac (or pc) and do some reading. (This place would be a good place to start.) You pretty much nailed the real problem, the shop is focused on racing. Racers are always looking for the next big thing to give them an edge; consquently, they come in most often to spend money. If they need lighting it's usually battery based (which again means a future sale from the LBS for battery packs and or a new unit later on.) Once a commuter (particularly with dyno lighting) is set up it's pretty much "fire and forget" you won't be back untill something wears out or your ready to add something to your kit.

tarwheel 

If you can set up the electronics yourself, I would just order a wheel on-line. You gave your LBS an opportunity to do business, and they don't sound like they want it. You could probably save a lot of money just ordering a wheel from some place like Universal bikes or Peter White that specializes in wheel building and has all of the parts in stock. Also, if your LBS is reluctant to build the wheel, they probably won't be much help with the electronics either.

unterhausen

there are really no electronics involved, just a couple of wires. If they can't do it, they can't install a wired odometer either.

I'm glad I can go to a bike shop that is run by people that are actually interested in all bikes. There is absolutely no difference in building a wheel for a dyno and any other hub. When I worked in a bike shop, I wasn't thrilled when people ordered on line either, but Jerry was asking for it this time.

dscheidt

Building a dynamo wheel is no harder than building any other wheel. It's complicated by shimano not making the dimensions of the hubs readily available (They know them, a call will get you them.), and there does appear to be a stock problem with certain variants of Shimano's hubs (and prices went up since I bought one in December, by about 5%!). But the guy's not trying hard, and he clearly doesn't want to do. I'd tell him "I'll get the wheel somewhere else, if you don't want to (do what I'm paying you a substantial premium for!)". You can find the whole wheels built up (watch those, there are a bunch with a really low end dynamo floating around), or get a builder who deals with dyanmo wheels to build you one. (Both Peter White and Anthony at LongLeaf bikes build many wheels with dyanmos and seem to have a good reputation for their wheel building. No first hand experience either way (though I've bought parts from both.). There are others, too.)

Installing the lights isn't at all hard, assuming you've got the right bracketry bits, and so on, but those are readily available. Wiring is easy, details vary with the lights, but there will either be an attached lead from the light, or 3mm male quick disconnect spades. Hub end takes two bare wires into a fitting that comes with the hub. (and is available as a spare, cheapily, if you have a cat...)

tacreamer

https://www.treefortbikes.com/product...l---Deore.html

pdlamb

Took me longer to find rim tape, tube, and tire (they were all in the house) than to hook up my Cy to my Shimano dynohub wheel.

Actually took me longer to mount the Cyo around the fender than both the electrical hook-up and the tire.

What kind of mechanic passes up work in February?

AnthroMom

Thanks for saying that for me!

AnthroMom

Alas, all I have is a dog. Will that work?

AnthroMom

That's good to know! For everyone who said I can wire it myself, you're right. I'm fairly handy with electrical stuff and electronics.


Much as I'd enjoy ragging on the guy, he's plenty busy. We're in Rose Parade land: we had an 87 F (30.5 C) day last week. AccuWeather issued a serious weather alert yesterday because a drizzle was predicted. Seriously. (It makes the roads very slick with weeks of accumulated oil.)

And now that I'm officially a Junior Member, you don't need to be kind to me about that.

dscheidt

Depends on whether your dog will pounce on the little piece and run off with it, so it's never seen again.

unterhausen

you can change junior member to anything you want (that meets forum guidelines) on your profile

siberia37

Don't get the Ebay charger- it seems to include a 12V bottle dynamo so the circuit isn't going to work with a 6V hub dynamo like the Shimano.

Cyclist03537

I like the dynamo idea, and couldn't NOT reply to this. I am semi retired from cycling, but had a great run and haven't quit yet. What I have learned over the years is bike shops are like everything else in this world, you have to find the good ones. The best bike shop I know in the world (in my personal experience) is College Cyclery, Reno NV. In every way, if they are still there. However, everything else has not reached this benchmark, but I have found good and bad bike shops in my new home overseas.

The guy trying to build a wheel is probably inexperienced, but with the right tools I would say he is not much of a bike mechanic. I once ruined a rim due to a ill-fitting tire (it was recommended by the shop I purchased the tire. When I went back for a refund, they stood their ground when I pointed out the bead was different than the bead required to fit my rim, so I was out 90 bucks.... this was when I first learned about different rim types on road bikes. I was 100% off road until then. What happed was the tire popped and came off 15 miles into a century and I rode about 50 yards on the rim, pretty much destroying it). The bike shop then told me about rebuilding the rim "y'all cain't do that!!" as thought wheels were simply farmed from bicycle trees or something. I found a shop, an old hippy working from his home garage in the next town, did a wonderful job replacing the rim, and "relacing" it. I would do this, but lack the tools and patience. I can do everything else on a bike, all my own work. As you become experienced over time, get to know the people at the shops you patronize. You will find the right ones who will get the best deals, do the best work, and have the best advice and if you are really lucky you can get 2 out of the three, or all of the above in one shop although it's quite rare.

I came accross this thread, I've never had a dynamo before and mine is quite stiff. I disassembled the front wheel and it's really tight... I wasn't sure this is normal. But I had to reply in case anyone was listening. I am curious, if you had the dynamo hub, why did you not just buy the entire wheel? It is more expensive but it would have saved time and trouble. Locally, new (front) wheels with dynamos range from 900kr and up (about $95) but they are quite robust. Oh... "how hard is it to build a wheel around a dynamo" I would make the educated guess it is not any harder than any other wheel, but you have to know what your are doing and should have built wheels before taking it seriously. It's a pain the arse, and it's the one thing I have avoided over the years. When I was a teenager, I tried it with BMX rims, made lots of mistakes, but didn't know about the special tools required. As it was, I did a terrible job. I find it more convenient to drop 25 bucks or so and have someone else do it. I know the spokes have to be the correct length, the number of holes should be identical on the hub and rim, and you need a dishing tool, which helps center the hub in the rim. AND THEN when you have all this, you will have to practice to get it right.

Just some thoughts. have a great day and good luck.

~John

unterhausen

John,
Welcome to the forum. This is an 8 year old thread, so most of your questions will go unanswered. You didn't say what kind of hub you have, but it's fairly typical for a dynohub to feel stiff due to the magnets. Shimano tends to ship their hubs adjusted improperly, so it wouldn't be a bad idea to figure out how to adjust the cones. Just don't do it on the wire side, that will end badly.

I have a SON with the contacts built into the axle, so putting the wheel in a metal truing stand shorts the hub. This makes it very stiff. Turns out you are supposed to insulate it. It's built now, so it works the other way too.

My LBS has dynohubs in stock, which surprised me a little. But the owner says people like to see them first. He builds a lot of dynohub wheels.

Cyclist03537

I didn't have any questions, but thanks. I know the post is old, but I happened across it, and I'm sure in time other will too. Likewise, it really boggles me that what I consider common sense most people haven't thought about. Probably what my grandparents thought about me.....

Seriously, if you know a good shop/mechanic who are not just after your money, get their business card and recommend them. They are hard to find.

Fun story. When Greg LeMond won his last Tour de France, I was getting into road racing. His last stage was a 15 mile sprint, and he averaged something like 38 mph. I realize I am not Greg LeMond, but I went to the local (and best...lol) shop, asking about how I can gear my bike to go faster? It was my first road bike and I had a 47 tooth bio-pace chainring and it drove me nuts because it wasn't round. They told "why don't you try to pedal faster?" This is ****ty advice, and shops like that don't deserve anyone's time or their money. Go somewhere else.

I went to another shop, he cut me a lot of really good deals, and recommended a 54 tooth constant radius chainring. It did the trick, I ran 4 gears higher with the same effort and could maintain 22mph easily enough (compared to 17.5mph previously with the factory chainring.). This is just random advice, and notes from my past experiences, that may be useful to someone. About a year and a half later, the shop I bought the chainring from was on TV, they were running marijuana out of the bicycle store. It was on the news, they were busted in possession of 230kg of weed in the store. This is why I got such good deals, he was washing the money. Fun story to tell, that I used to buy all my bike stuff from a drug dealer.

Best

John

unterhausen

Biopace was bad. There was a recent thread about it from a recent convert to Biopace, and that made me realize that's why I was always so tired on my bike with a biopace crank. That had bothered me for years. It's not so bad that you will notice it right away, but a 20 mile ride will have the bad effect of a much longer ride. I still use it for commuting though.

Cyclist03537

At that point I had spent years on a BMX, then mountain bikes. My first road bike I would look down and could not understand why the chain wheel was bobbing up and down. One shop told me "that's a biopace chainring" and I was like "a what?" I was into distance riding and racing, I didn't need that.

However, the takeaway I was trying for is just because someone owns a bike shop, or works at a high end shop or someone says "they are experts" it is something each of us has to make up our own mind. Some of these shops would say things (and still do) is "they don't make that anymore" when I breaks something. So, I go to another store and either buy or order the part. These days, the internet is good for that. Non-bike related I have a spare digital camera that I lost the cord for (no external charger for the battery) 2 electronics shops told me "that cable isn't made anymore" and it turned out it was just a USB micro B, so ordering one online I had it in a few days. We are left to our own devices sometimes, wether it's a bike, a dynamo, or a camera that is outdated but fully functional otherwise.

But relacing a wheels is not a headache I would want. I have broken the wires to my dynamo now, apparently there is a magic formula to putting it back together that involves some hocus pocus beyond putting the nuts and washers back on in the same order they were removed. I rode down the street, the nuts tightened on the axle, it started turning the electrical plug, snapping the wires. Lucky it was the wires and not the dynamo plug, resulting in replacement. I can re attach the wires. This is such a headache.......
~J

Sirrus Rider

I'll second what Sixty Fiver said. I have two bikes running Shimano Dynohubs and there was nothing to setting them up, I just had the bike shop build the wheels I brought them home, rimstripped, then installed tires and tubes. I then mounted my light head, ran the wires down the fork, hooked them to the hub and that was that . They have been the most reliable bike lights I've owned. Maybe not the brightest compared to some of the newer battery lights with the newer LEDs more more that sufficient for over 13k miles.

I suspicion you bike shop is dragging the feet because they know once you convert you won't be in shopping for the latest and greatest of battery lights. Racers (unless they are Randonneurs) almost always run battery lights, Tourers (if they know what they are doing) are also in the dynohub camp. Although I can imagine touring on battery lights if I ran a solar panel and had more than one battery pack that I kept charging as I rode during the day. Kids bikes would be nice if the were outfitted with lights, but that's an added expense that most parents skip. That leaves urban bikes, and unless the dig in and do their homework, the bikeshop is going to sell them whatever they have in stock that would be some fancy battery light from Nightrider, etc that will tie that customer to them like a crackhead to a crackhouse.

Cyclist03537

It's an old thread but I agree. I said something to this affect up above. I have never built a wheel, but so what. With the right tools, parts and practice it's just another thing. I've pulled engines, rebuilt motorcyles, trucks, etc. Bicycles are lighter and more manageable but need a bit of finesse, but otherwise not such a big deal. The mechanic above in the original post is not much of a mechanic.

Siu Blue Wind

I'm sure you're much better than most of us, considering, you know. that you're Phd and all.

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