pdlamb

My first group tour was a fully supported, week long ride up the Blue Ridge Parkway (the northern half). It was one of the best group rides I've been part of. The leadership team was great. You've heard "a place for everything, and everything in its place"? That was the kind of ride it was. Everything they could control was perfect. Things that weren't under their direct control, they managed to make things work.

On my first tour, we crossed paths with a van-supported Trans Am group. The riders were uniform in their praise of the leaders. We saw them when the place they were going to camp in Jackson, MT had closed the week before their arrival. I was impressed by how well, and how quickly, they adapted to that (even if the riders had to pay an exorbitant price for their dinner dessert!).

indyfabz

1. I agree with what is expressed in the first paragraph. As noted, we had a total of three. Two were terrific. The one who sucked was a last minute replacement for a replacement. Cancelling the tour would have been a horrible alternative.

2. As for paid vacations, I did a week+ hotel/supported trip in Italy built around the end of the Giro. The company was relatively well known. The owner and his wife, who were from the west coast, seemed, at times, to treat it like their way to spend the summer in Europe. My roomie got really pissed at them near the end. For a couple of days we were stuck in a hotel room that looked out onto what was basically a 24 hr. truck stop/fueling station. The noise bothered my roomie. When we moved to our last hotel, the owners took a room overlooking a beautiful lake while we again got no view. My roomie demanded that we swap rooms. The owner had no issue with basically telling me that my roomie was a PITA for complaining.

Tourist in MSN

Both of the ACA trips I did, the guides had never been on that route before, they basically work on the trips they would like to do and nobody that is guiding in their spare time wants to do the same boring trip repeatedly. If you asked them where something was, if it was not a grocery store or bike shop that would be listed in their trip book, they would not be able to tell you because they had not been there before. If ACA suddenly needs an emergency substitute, they look to their guides that are not currently assigned, a guide was injured on a trip that a friend of mine was on and they had a replacement guide within a few days.

I have done two Europe trips with REI Travel. REI contracts with local guide organizations in Europe to put on their trips. They provide the bikes, the lodging and most of the meals. Those local organizations that they contract with, that is their full time business. Thus if you asked the guide where the nearest ATM was, he or she knew it was down the road two blocks, turn right, it is inside the bank front door on the right because the guide has been there a dozen times before and had the same questions many times. For those guides, that was a major income source and they knew that they had to keep the customers happy or they might lose the contract. Once in the evening, several of us were sitting around a picnic table, the guide was also sitting there. I was standing. Three times the guide offered to give up his seat so I could sit down, but i kept telling him I preferred to stand at that time. That guide went out of his way to keep you happy.

tcs

Okay, before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, I like ebikes. I think I'd enjoy a group tour where everyone was on a Class 1 ebike.

A few of Adventure Cycling's tours (and these days many commercial tours) allow ebikes in the mix. Just me personally, I wouldn't sign up for one of those if I was riding a pedal bike. Part of riding in a group for me is the shared experience and the shared challenge. I've read enough travelogs to know the experience and the challenge is very different on the two machines.

tcs

Hmph. I see Adventure Cycling lists scheduled tours' assigned leaders and offers leader bios.

https://www.adventurecycling.org/guided-tours/tour-leaders/

Of course, AC is not running trips during the COVID era and these leaders could be scattered to the four winds and off in another chapter in their lives when tours resume (much like the staff at your old favorite restaurant).

rmball28

Thanks for pointing out the guide bios. That is a nice find.

indyfabz

People don't ride as one group. Too many variations in fitness levels. Some people are early starters. Others are slow to get out of camp. Some people stop in towns along the way. Others just keep riding.

On my unsupported ACA tour, one guy preferred riding alone. No one wanted to ride with another guy. Many days I ended up riding with one other person with whom I "clicked" and was about on par with fitness-wise, but some days I wanted to ride solo. The four twenty-somethings tended to ride together. The leader always rode sweep unless someone volunteered for the job on a particular day, which I did once or twice.

On my supported ACA tour, people who ride in groups tended to be friends who had come to the tour together, although that was not always the case. And you wouldn't want 100+ people all together on the road. What I experienced was the same as what I observed when I crossed paths with Cycle Montana twice. People would ride solo or in very small groups at best. Usually no larger than 4 or 5. If the group was larger it was because you ended up getting grouped together on something like a climb or after leaving a rest stop. The day I camped at the same location as the tour, some people were already in camp when I got there. Others trickled in over the next few hours.

jfoobar

That's a very good point and one I had not thought about. This is going to be an issue in a lot of seasonal industries and other non-career jobs as well. Furthermore, even if we do get a vaccine early next year, it will take many months before everyone who wants it, gets it. That will push up against summer season scheduling and create a lot of additional uncertainty. I would guess that next year's schedule will be pretty impacted by this as well and available slots in what does go off will be snapped up more quickly.

tcs

Hmm. Obvious?

But you rendezvous to start and again each evening, and share meals and talk (well, hopefully), discussing the day accomplished and the challenges ahead.

indyfabz

I was addressing point about eBikes being in the mix. I cannot see it making a difference other than make a few people a bit faster than they normally would be. I don't see it radically changing the group riding dynamic.

People amass for breakfast and dinner, if that's what you mean. In 2016, when I camped with Cycle Montana, I was invited to breakfast the next morning. Talk ran the gamut. It was actually a small world experience crossing paths with the tour. As I was pitching my tent I heard a woman speaking with an unmistakable tone and accent and at an unmistakable volume. She, her husband and a friend had been on Cycle Vermont 6 years earlier. All three were there. And one of the tour leaders had also participated (as a rider) in the Vermont tour.

Wiggle

Cape Breton? I think I recognize that ice cream stand

Tourist in MSN

I looked at the date on the photo and at my GPS tracks, photo taken on the mainland about half way between Halifax and the bridge to Cape Breton Island. And it tasted really good.

MAK

I've done two self-supported ACA tours and enjoyed both. Each had two guides that were friendly, knowledgeable and helpful. Yes, the groups starts at the same time, but due to differing riding ability, speed and individuals stopping for photos, etc., the group doesn't always ride the entire route together.

One thing that a rider might/could/should be concerned about unless they're truly self-sufficient, is that last time I looked, the ACA rides I was interested in (pre-Covid) seem to now feature only a single guide rather than having two. I'm more comfortable with a leader and a sweep. A single leader may have problems if the group gets strung out. If you're trailing the group and have a mechanical or physical issue, if you're in an area without phone service, you may be stuck for quite some time until they discover that you're missing.

Perhaps I'm over-thinking this but...

BobG

MAK, Which "self-supported" ACA tours did you take that had two leaders? I led four ACA TransAm tours and one partial Northern Tier over a period of 16 years and am not familiar with any that had two leaders other than the "van-supported" tours that do have two leaders, one to drive and one to ride.

The only exception I know was our 2000 TransAm Tour that had an assistant. It was a Y2K version of the trip with an extra large group, thus the extra leader was along but just on standby in the event I needed help. He was not paid but his tour was complementary. Several folks dropped out before the trip started so he wasn't needed at first. I had to leave in Kansas due to a health emergency and then he took over the group solo and started getting paid.

I actually enjoyed being the sweep. I'm a slow mover in the morning and like to linger in camp. I was also a slow rider and the sweep role gave me an excuse to be even slower!