Rolla

Sure, sometimes, I guess, although that wasn't the case in my two most recent experiences with tubeless-ready bikes.

The point, however, was that if a person knows how to repair a tubed tire, then repairing a tubeless-ready tire with a tube in it falls within that person's skill set.

DMC707

Perhaps youve gotten the Scott by now but my .02

Its not a big deal - been using them on my MTB for years --- have not flatted since using tubeless ----

I have a set on my big travel Yeti that seldom gets used and the tires are still holding air with the original sealant in them -- and the tires were installed Christmas Eve 2018.

PErhaps an extreme case and maybe a smaller 'cross tire might need to be refreshed more often , but 2 1/2 years without cracking open the bead to refresh the sealant is pretty good to me --- Its Stans Race IIRC

Rogerogeroge

Nope.

Tubed - mount starting at valve stem (least resistance), finish opposite valve stem.
removing tire - start opposite valve stem

Both ways put the least stress on the valve stem area of the tube.

Tubeless - mount starting opposite valve stem - tubeless valve stems take up space in the rim channel and increase the overall diameter needed to mount the tire.
removing tire - start at the valve stem - you won't agitate the tube/rim hole area like you would with a tubed tire. And again, a tubeless valve stem takes up space in the channel.

Sy Reene

why not likely? I'd think that for a straight walled hookless rim, the primary factor coming into play would be the profile of the tire bead. If a TL tire is super easy to mount on hooked, why not a correlation that it's too easily unmounted on hookless?

Anyway these are the 3 rim brands I mentioned. Pirelli is the only maker that appears in all 3.


cadex hookless non-approved

enve hookless not approved

zipp hookless

WhyFi

Pirelli themselves doesn't recommend any of the P-Zero Race 26mm or smaller for hookless use, this may be because of the ETRTO PSI recommendations, but that's just my speculation. Above 28mm and above is approved. That addresses two of your three. I don't know and don't care about the Cinturato, but many of their TL offering were pointedly designed to be hookless compatible, so your statement was patently false.

Sy Reene

Not exactly, I'm not going to paste all of the approved lists now, but at least for Enve and Cadex, Pirelli (wider than 26mm) does not appear on either. So Zipp is the only brand where you could assume Pirellis are ok for wider. So your statement that above 28mm is approved, is only inferred as correct for one of the 3 brands.

WhyFi

We've been over this before. You've got no skin in the game and only do half-assed research in the hopes of appearing to be well versed enough to **** on it. Approved lists are not comprehensive. I have hookless Zipps on my bike. I have Pirelli (among others) on my parts shelf.

Your theory that 'tires not designed for hookless are easier to mount' is shot down by the fact that the P-Zeros were designed for hookless use whereas the GP5k, which has a reputation for being one of the most ornery tires to mount, is not approved for any hookless use.

Sy Reene

Go ahead and provide your own half-assed research then. Or better yet, drop a line to some of these wheel makers and tell them that you've determined that they can add Pirelli to their approved lists because Pirelli marketing has said so. As for Conti 5k, it's only the 25mm that appear on unapproved lists. Like Pirelli, other widths are non-mentions (except CInturatos). I don't doubt that every tire hasn't been tested, but to claim wider Pirellis are approved while wider Conti 5ks are not, is currently an unsupported claim.

And nice misquote of mine of something I never said. I basically postulated that if a TL tire, as in Pete's case, was found to be the all-time easiest tire he's ever had the pleasure of mounting -- maybe that could be an indicator of compatibility with hookless, given that brand does appear in some form on all 3 rim makers site.

WhyFi

Dude, you're all facepalm.

Anybody that's looked at hookless rims in earnest knows that GP5k are on the strict no-fly list.

And, uh, say what now?

And with that, I'm done with this idiocy. I just wish you'd stop trying to ply misinformation on subjects with which you have no personal, practical interest.

PeteHski

Quite possibly something in that. But it's a bit complicated with Pirelli. Their wider P-Zero Race TLRs (28c and 30c) are compatible with hookless rims, but the narrower ones (24c and 26c) are not. I have the 30c version and those fit very easily (without tyre levers) on my Giant SLR carbon hooked rims. I also have Cinturatos in 32c and they fit easily too. I don't think those are hookless compatible either. I can imagine hookless rims being tighter fitting, but I have never owned any. I would be vary wary of buying any new rims to make sure they work well with my favourite tyres. There are definitely some combinations that don't fit well, but that includes tubed tyres too.

Sy Reene

show me a hookless approved list (as tested by the rim maker) that has Pirelli on it.

btw, I'm pretty sure Petehski's reference to Pirellis was indeed the Cinturato, since he's prior indicated he runs them on his Defy. This is the one tire on Enve's list that was tested and not approved in any width that it's offered in, so I think my premise that a correlation could exist is certainly possible.

PeteHski

As in the above post, I was referring to both Cinturatos and P-Zero Race TLR. Both are very easy to mount on my hooked Giant rims. The 30c Race TLRs are hookless compatible up to 5 bar max (which is more than enough pressure at that width). The Cinturatos are not hookless compatible according to the box. The fit is the same. Both go on with just thumb pressure, no levers required. How easy they are to fit over the rims depends a lot on how deep the centre channel is on the rims. If the channel is relatively deep it makes them much easier to fit. You just have to remember to push both beads down into the channel opposite to where you are pressing the last part over.

freetors

Have fun trying to mount a motorcycle tire that way, especially narrow, tubed dirt bike fronts. There just isn't enough room for a tube's valve stem and tire bead to coexist in the same place when working away from the valve to mount.

Always install toward the valve. Always remove away from the valve. Tubed or tubeless.

WhyFi

wot;dr

Racing Dan

HIFI ...

You make up your own reality. The only tyres on the approved lists are the tyres on the approved list. The tyres not on the approved list are not on the approved list no matter the amount of mental gymnastics you exercise.

WhyFi

Yeah, sure. ETRTO be damned, amiright?

WhyFi

zOMG! They're running tires that aren't explicitly on the 'approved' list at Roubaix!!!



Yeah, Conti has a new tubeless tire on the way, one that's hookless compatible to correct their mistake with the GP5K TL and it has the markings that hint that it's ETRTO compliant, much like most of the new high-performance TL tires introduced within the last 18 months or so. As such, it should be hunky dory with wheelsets that are also manufactured to conform with hookless ETRTO standards.

Sy Reene

That's cool if you're certain they're not running tubes underneath
Wouldn't surprise me to also see other mentioned tire makers doing v2 versions of some of their TL offerings.

jaxgtr

just looking at that pic, I just don't understand the whole quark tire pressure gizmo , but then again, not a racer, so maybe there are some benefits there, but, meh

WhyFi

That's just for extreme tracking/tweaking of tire pressure to optimize for road surface. The primary thing of interest in the pic is that the Conti is on a hookless rim - they were the last manufacturer of significance to not have a hookless compliant, high-performance road tire.

WhyFi

Woof. In fitting with the the (supposed) thread subject, I just checked my sealant ahead of a destination ride tomorrow, and I was runnin' on empty up front and on fumes on the rear. I just added sealant less than 5 weeks ago, but it goes to show you that mileage can and will dramatically affect maintenance intervals. Often, I can get away with 6+ weeks before topping off, but in that five weeks since the last refresh, I put on something around 1300 miles, and it seems as if I've taken quite a few cuts that needed sealing over those miles.

Trsnrtr

Ive had to top off more than usual this summer. I don’t know why. It hasn’t been exceptionally hot or anything.

jaxgtr

I am surprised someone has not created a carbon fiber sealant dipstick for easy sealant checks, , or some kind of bluetooth based phone app electronic device

kahn

I saw the other thread on needing to top off sealant. But your comment on a dipstick seems like a good place to jump in. How does one measure the amount of sealant or determine if a top off is needed? I gather you have to remove a valve core - you lose all the air?

I had an oil furnace and the tank was rather large/deep. I needed a seven foot molding strip to serve as a dipstick. It was a 600 or so gallon tank.

WhyFi

Yeah, if you want to check the sealant without breaking the bead (which makes things easier), you deflate, remove the valve core, and go through the valve stem with either a dipstick (Orange Seal includes one with the smaller dosing bottle) or with a sealant syringe. Syringes make life so much easier because you can both add and remove sealant with them (sometimes sealant goes bad/gets waterlogged and it's nice to be able to remove it with no hassle). I'm currently using one like this, but Park has recently released this one, which I'll probably pick up at soon (mine is getting gummy after a couple years).

Oh, one thing on using one of the above syringes - it seems like half of the valve stems out there have a narrow spot internally that blocks the syringe and keeps it from fully inserting, so you need to get valves that'll pass 'em. I use the MucOff lightweight aluminum stems - they're pretty easy to find, at least at shops around me.

Edit: PS - whether you're using a dipstick or syringe, your bike/wheels should be suspended in a stand. A few years back, a, uh... friend of mine... put his bike on the ground, deflated his tires, removed the cores, spun the valve to the 6 o'clock position and put the wheel back on the ground, at which point sealant came spewing though the stem an all over m- uh, his floor.