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A lot of the recent "innovation" is a bad bargain for anyone not pushing a competitiv

Old 06-30-21, 08:26 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Troul View Post
Depends.
People who prefer the 1978 car generally wear those.
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Old 06-30-21, 09:09 AM
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So much nonsense in this thread, including original post. I'd been away from BF for a week. Glad to be back. [palm to forehead]
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Old 06-30-21, 09:56 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
All missed my larger point..

When you reduce to the absurd nothing changes i.e. little to no difference between a 1948 bike and a 198x bike because they were lugged steel, cars obviously didn't change because they have a similar number of cylinders and 4 wheels.

But there have been long periods in the history of the car where there weren't fundamental technical changes. The US auto manufacturers were largely technically stagnant during the mid-1950s to the mid-1970s (or so) for example, most of the innovations being ones of styling during that period. "Innovation" at that point was basically let's see how big we can make the car, or how much engine we can pack into a little car..
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Old 06-30-21, 10:06 AM
  #104  
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I thought by now we'd have cars that fly. Or was that only on "The Jetsons"?
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Old 06-30-21, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
But there have been long periods in the history of the car where there weren't fundamental technical changes. The US auto manufacturers were largely technically stagnant during the mid-1950s to the mid-1970s (or so) for example, most of the innovations being ones of styling during that period. "Innovation" at that point was basically let's see how big we can make the car, or how much engine we can pack into a little car..
galvanization, box frames, electronic ignition, fuel injection, radial tires, fiberglass, air conditioning
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Old 06-30-21, 11:03 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
So much nonsense in this thread, including original post. I'd been away from BF for a week. Glad to be back. [palm to forehead]
See what happens when you leave? For everyone's sake, try to limit your absences to 2 or 3 hours in the future.
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Old 06-30-21, 11:24 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
But there have been long periods in the history of the car where there weren't fundamental technical changes. The US auto manufacturers were largely technically stagnant during the mid-1950s to the mid-1970s (or so) for example, most of the innovations being ones of styling during that period. "Innovation" at that point was basically let's see how big we can make the car, or how much engine we can pack into a little car..
a lot of the drive in change for the automotive industry is related to safety & emissions, but styling is a need for change if a business wants to stay profitable. I haven't dug into the real reason for the changes related to the bicycles we have now, but I don't think there are much governing regs to enforce changes... thankfully!
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Old 06-30-21, 11:25 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
You could get an earlier start; remember "it's 5 o'clock somewhere."
Yes, and judging by the earlier rambling tome of a post, there are places in the world where it's always 5 o'clock.
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Old 06-30-21, 11:38 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Reflector Guy View Post
I thought by now we'd have cars that fly. Or was that only on "The Jetsons"?
Most drivers aren't that great in two dimensions. Imagine how they'd handle three.
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Old 06-30-21, 11:40 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
galvanization, box frames, electronic ignition, fuel injection, radial tires, fiberglass, air conditioning
Unibody.
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Old 06-30-21, 01:55 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
The innovation that has really benefitted the average rider is index shifting, especially being able to shift while keeping your hands on the handlebar. Partnered with shifting aids, it takes the lowest level of skill to operate.

I remember when Shimano came out with SIS. One of the negative aspects for professional riders was the loud click of the DA 7400 shifters. I had a set of 7401 shifters and they were so loud on a quiet route you could probably hear the click for an eighth of a mile. No sneaking up with those.

But my younger self did enjoy those times of trying catching up to someone knowing those shift clicks were heard coming up… lol.

John
AGREED!!! SIS and indexed shifting for the win AND general ease of use applicable to all levels of cycling (except fixies).

That said, much of this thread has a lot of venting and sore nerves, as well as plain old luddism. My take is there have been massive improvements in function since my 1973 Peugeot UO-8 (which I like for its looks and as a reminder of progress). SIS is the big one, as is available brake technologies, and frame dynamics. I am a big fan of SIS, but not the added complexity of replacing cables due to aero features, BUT I can live with it, as it is better, even though I am well versed in friction shifting. Brakes, to me are a different issue, and I prefer rim brakes. I used to think threadless stems were clunky, until the first stem change. WHAT? I do not have to redo the bar tape, etc. SOLD for me! I also like the ability to personalize the stem cap . Pedals, I use what I use, and care less what others use.

Aesthetically, I greatly prefer a diamond frame of the non-compact variety, or with a slightly sloping top tube. And I prefer a steel frame, but I want my SIS, threadless steerer and stem (with curved fork blades) and canti brakes. Would I buy carbon or aluminum? Yes, if I found a bike I liked.

I have heard lots of cases made for tubeless tires. I will stick with tubes for simple easy of maintenance, similar to my rim brake preference. Additionally, I have never had a snakebit tube problem.

What I do not like in general is proprietary stuff. It is often elegant and functional, but only if enough people buy and use it, and I hate being stuck with low supply or possible tech orphans. (What can I say, I owned an SAAB, fortunately before they were orphaned.)

My solution is to buy what I want or like, and admire good looking bikes of all genres.

Now for the people using a tech analogy. Why in creation would I watch a movie on my iPhone when I can watch a 60+ inch TV with surround. Same for PC monitors, you keep those 19, 24, and 27" screens, living is a 32" screen and 5.1 speakers. Same with cars, in tests of vintage, stock muscle cars, the newer cars are faster AND they can corner, all while doing better than the 7MPG of a Ford 427 side oiler with 2 4bbls where you could actually see the gas gauge needle drop. Also, you may not need under 10 second 0-60 times, but under 7 seconds sure makes merging easy.

In summary, we all have our definitions of bargains, good or bad. Use, buy, keep, upgrade, or discard, what you want.

Last edited by Bill in VA; 06-30-21 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 06-30-21, 02:32 PM
  #112  
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The another lasting innovation is disc brakes.

Because they stop better or easier to maintain?

No, because apart from damage, rims can last for as long as the rider wants to ride them. There is rim wear from the brake pads.

And with cartridge bearings, wheels could last a lifetime.

John
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Old 06-30-21, 02:54 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
The another lasting innovation is disc brakes. Because they stop better or easier to maintain? No.
Because they stop better in wet conditions.

Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
apart from damage, rims can last for as long as the rider wants to ride them. There is rim wear from the brake pads.
Rims can develop cracks at the spoke holes, regardless of brake type.


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Old 06-30-21, 03:05 PM
  #114  
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Well built and maintained rims usually don’t crack.

There can be road damage, which is unavoidable, but most rims wear out, especially riding off-road.

John
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Old 06-30-21, 03:22 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
galvanization, box frames, electronic ignition, fuel injection, radial tires, fiberglass, air conditioning
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Unibody.
Cup holders. Lots of cup holders.
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Old 06-30-21, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Cup holders. Lots of cup holders.
SRS on top of SRS & more SRS.
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Old 06-30-21, 03:25 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Cup holders. Lots of cup holders.
I thought cup holders were more of an 80s/90s thing?
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Old 06-30-21, 03:28 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
I thought cup holders were more of an 80s/90s thing?
I thought we were discussing the most important advances in automotive technology?
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Old 06-30-21, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I thought we were discussing the most important advances in automotive technology?
The 'galvanization...." comment was in response to someone saying there was little innovation in auto technology in the US from the 1950s to the 1970s.
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Old 06-30-21, 03:40 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
Well built and maintained rims usually don’t crack.
Of course they don't "usually" crack, but a wheel's lifespan depends on more factors than the brake type.
The sidewall of a disc brake wheel can outlast that of a rim brake wheel, but that's not the only place that a wheel deteriorates.

Last edited by Rolla; 06-30-21 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 06-30-21, 03:41 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
The 'galvanization...." comment was in response to someone saying there was little innovation in auto technology in the US from the 1950s to the 1970s.
Sorry, I didn't see the time frame. Either way, the real advances in cup holder technology are coming soon, when smart-holders become available later this year.
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Old 06-30-21, 04:00 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by ColonelSanders View Post
I'm not against modern stuff, but your post has me curious to know how much if any of the 4 minute difference is due to different tyres and/or if the gap would be reduced if you were to upgrade your brakes(with what is technically and financially feasible) on your older bike?
Actually, what I'd be curious about, is whether the other 5 bikes of his 7 can be plotted on a chart, showing incremental time improvements based on their ages?
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Old 06-30-21, 04:13 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
Of course they don't "usually" crack, but a wheel's lifespan depends on more factors than the brake type.
The sidewall of a disc brake wheel can outlast that of a rim brake wheel, but that's not the only place that a wheel deteriorates.
I agree everything has stresses that will take a toll over time, but Ive had to replace an otherwise perfectly good set of mtb rims because of wear on the braking surface.

Some mfgs have hard anodized the braking surface, to slow this down, but that has braking trade-offs.

People will always find a reason for rims to fail, but in the future it wont be due to a worn through brake surface.

Disc brakes are here to stay.

John
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Old 06-30-21, 06:40 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
40 years ago, you could also finance a new bike, just by putting it on a credit card. But do you remember what interest rates were like in 1981? You could get a 30 year fixed rate mortgage at 18.5%.
Originally Posted by Outrider1 View Post
Would you prefer a 1978 car over a newer model?
ford...no. spitfire...hell yes.
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Old 06-30-21, 06:49 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by spelger View Post
ford...no. spitfire...hell yes.
Could be worse... 1991 innovation of optispark.
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