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Origami Swift - Thoughts, Ideas For a New Version of a Classic

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Origami Swift - Thoughts, Ideas For a New Version of a Classic

Old 03-08-22, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by speedyg0nz View Post
I know this thread is about reviving the Swift, but I happened to come across the Fubi Fixie page where they are looking to sell/partner with someone. Not sure if it's something that Pinigis might be interested in. Text below copied from their website.
I have too much on my plate already.
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Old 03-08-22, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
I have too much on my plate already.
LOL, perfectly understandable. Keep being awesome!
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Old 03-09-22, 08:20 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
I have never had the pleasure of riding a Swift. Anyone in Virginia have one?
How about a frameset? I've one that Peter sold me a few years back. It's fresh and never been built. Unfortunately it's not in Virginia but in my friend's workshop in British Columbia, Canada.

For the greater good of science, grand design and more new and improved Swifts zooming around, I'd be glad to loan it out if you and other people at Origami would like to try it and/or maybe use it as a test bed? I'm in Spain and not using it. You could therefore hold onto it for many weeks or months while you evaluate it for yourselves. My friend owns a bike shop and he's a professional bike mechanic, so packing it for shipping is no problem. I spoke with him yesterday and he says he's happy to send it out on this adventure if you want it. Do you think that having such a thing would be useful? I'd only ask that when you're done with it to strip it down again to the bare frameset and send it back.
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Old 03-09-22, 09:32 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by joey buzzard View Post
How about a frameset? I've one that Peter sold me a few years back. It's fresh and never been built. Unfortunately it's not in Virginia but in my friend's workshop in British Columbia, Canada.

For the greater good of science, grand design and more new and improved Swifts zooming around, I'd be glad to loan it out if you and other people at Origami would like to try it and/or maybe use it as a test bed? I'm in Spain and not using it. You could therefore hold onto it for many weeks or months while you evaluate it for yourselves. My friend owns a bike shop and he's a professional bike mechanic, so packing it for shipping is no problem. I spoke with him yesterday and he says he's happy to send it out on this adventure if you want it. Do you think that having such a thing would be useful? I'd only ask that when you're done with it to strip it down again to the bare frameset and send it back.
I really appreciate the offer, and your generosity. But, I will check with Peter to see if he has one available (I should have done that sooner).
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Old 03-10-22, 12:04 AM
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I would like a chromo swift but I would also like a little longer wheelbase. As far as track ends go, I like the option of going single, IGH or derailleur. The most comfortable bars for me are VO Porteur bars as I don't get numbness or wrist pain.
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Old 03-10-22, 03:06 AM
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Flat bars are my fav. Please leave the handlepost as a two piece (ability to add stem of any length for proper reach) like original swift, not a single piece folding like on most folding bikes (hardly an option for extending reach).
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Old 03-10-22, 07:18 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by 12boy View Post
I would like a chromo swift but I would also like a little longer wheelbase. As far as track ends go, I like the option of going single, IGH or derailleur. The most comfortable bars for me are VO Porteur bars as I don't get numbness or wrist pain.
I hadn't considered the VO Porteur bars, but they could be a cool option. What wheelbase would you consider to be ideal?
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Old 03-10-22, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
I hadn't considered the VO Porteur bars, but they could be a cool option. What wheelbase would you consider to be ideal?
You could eliminate the track ends and still have the capacity to have either a derailleur or an IGH. You would probably have to settle on one wheel size.

The wheel base is good where it is, but could be shortened at the chain stays by a couple a couple of inches. It will increase the responsiveness of the ride at the expense of stability. However, nothing wrong with the ride as is. It would also decrease the height of fold a couple of inches which would be a good thing.
​​
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Old 03-10-22, 08:49 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta View Post
You could eliminate the track ends and still have the capacity to have either a derailleur or an IGH. You would probably have to settle on one wheel size.

The wheel base is good where it is, but could be shortened at the chain stays by a couple a couple of inches. It will increase the responsiveness of the ride at the expense of stability. However, nothing wrong with the ride as is. It would also decrease the height of fold a couple of inches which would be a good thing.
​​
I too like the wheelbase as is on the alu version. It's quite long. Nobody ever complains about the bike's ride quality. And would shortening the height of the folded package by an inch or two likely attract many people who value folding compactness? I doubt it so I'd be reluctant to make such changes were it to compromise ride quality.. But, maybe worth experimenting with.

​​​​​As far as horizontal track dropouts go I assume that a disc brake equipped machine would more or less preclude these?

So long as there's clearance for say a slightly larger 451 wheel why wouldn't these work just as well as 406 with fixed dropouts positions and disc brakes?

One thing I'd like to see at the rear of the bike though is a more standard off the peg derailleur hanger. The one on the alu Swift is a bit of an anomaly for a bike that mostly takes standard parts.

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Old 03-10-22, 12:09 PM
  #35  
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I for one would like a longer wheelbase. My 60cm Bike Friday has a wheelbase about 2" longer than the Swift, and it rides noticeably more like a normal bike. The Swift type fold is never going to attract the people who want the smallest folded package, so I would rather have the improved ride quality.

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Old 03-11-22, 06:14 AM
  #36  
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I noticed that the Lotus has a facility for attaching a luggage block onto the front of the bike. I like this feature and reckon it'd be worth considering on the new Swift as well. Seems to me that such would give the bike more versitility and utility with hardly any weight penalty.

Maybe the Swift could prove popular as a bike messenger courier machine. There's an entire subculture around that profession. Messengers do tend to prize fast comfortable bikes. If I were marketing such a product and the bikes were selling well to this group I'd name a special messenger model the "Swift Alley Cat" after the illegal street races popular with them.

Anyway, thumbs up for a front block from me. Would this be easy to incorporate?

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Old 03-11-22, 07:47 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by joey buzzard View Post
I noticed that the Lotus has a facility for attaching a luggage block onto the front of the bike. I like this feature and reckon it'd be worth considering on the new Swift as well. Seems to me that such would give the bike more versitility and utility with hardly any weight penalty.

Maybe the Swift could prove popular as a bike messenger courier machine. There's an entire subculture around that profession. Messengers do tend to prize fast comfortable bikes. If I were marketing such a product and the bikes were selling well to this group I'd name a special messenger model the "Swift Alley Cat" after the illegal street races popular with them.

Anyway, thumbs up for a front block from me. Would this be easy to incorporate?
Yes, there will be a luggage block on the head tube, just like the Lotus. I had never considered the messenger-bike market, but I like your analysis of it.
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Old 03-11-22, 11:09 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
I hadn't considered the VO Porteur bars, but they could be a cool option. What wheelbase would you consider to be ideal?
Soma Sparrow!!! You can flip upside down for the cafe racer/roadie position and put upright for touring/sighseeing. These bars are just the best!!! AND - they come really narrow for city riding between parked cars and traffic, as well as longer if desired.
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Old 03-13-22, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
I for one would like a longer wheelbase. My 60cm Bike Friday has a wheelbase about 2" longer than the Swift, and it rides noticeably more like a normal bike. The Swift type fold is never going to attract the people who want the smallest folded package, so I would rather have the improved ride quality.

Do you have any photos of your Bike Friday for comparison purposes?
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Old 03-13-22, 05:14 AM
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This is an older picture of my Swift's setup, but you can see the wheelbase difference between the two, it's all in the front center:

- Swift wheelbase: 40.5"
- Bike Friday wheelbase: 42.5" (for my 60cm frame)





Originally Posted by joey buzzard View Post
Do you have any photos of your Bike Friday for comparison purposes?
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Old 03-13-22, 05:39 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
I for one would like a longer wheelbase. My 60cm Bike Friday has a wheelbase about 2" longer than the Swift, and it rides noticeably more like a normal bike. The Swift type fold is never going to attract the people who want the smallest folded package, so I would rather have the improved ride quality.
The wheelbase doesn't fully define the behavior of a bike.

Brompton and Birdy have the same wheelbase of about 41" (so between the 40" of the Swift and the 42.5" of the Bike Friday) but the Brompton has a much more sensitive steering than the Birdy that behaves really like a big wheel bike.

Mk3 Brompton had a shorter wheelbase and the increase of wheel base on the mk4 didn't really change the behavior of the Brompton.

Its the global geometry of the frame that defines the behavior of the bike.

If we look at road bike, 104-105cm is very common for medium size (56) frames, 42.5"-108cm is relatively long and found on the biggest frame sizes. 40" like the swift is indeed very short for a road bike.

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Old 03-14-22, 10:38 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
I for one would like a longer wheelbase. My 60cm Bike Friday has a wheelbase about 2" longer than the Swift, and it rides noticeably more like a normal bike. The Swift type fold is never going to attract the people who want the smallest folded package, so I would rather have the improved ride quality.
I can only speak from my own experience: a "standard" Swift frame + Schwalbe Marathon 47-406 / 20x1.75 tires fits just barely in a Samsonite case that's just barely accepted with no surcharge. Knowing I had this option was a strong motivation to buy a Swift.
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Old 03-16-22, 10:21 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by arbee View Post
I can only speak from my own experience: a "standard" Swift frame + Schwalbe Marathon 47-406 / 20x1.75 tires fits just barely in a Samsonite case that's just barely accepted with no surcharge. Knowing I had this option was a strong motivation to buy a Swift.
Good to know that fits in a Samsonite case. You can get it smaller by removing the shoulder bolt holding the two halves of the frame together. You need to use a pin punch and hammer it out. Mine was initially tough to get out. It had some corrosion. I replaced it with a new one from McMaster.com. That one was better quality and fit easier. You can further reduce the size by taking the fork off. If you replace the loose bearings with cartridges for convenience.
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Old 03-17-22, 10:04 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta View Post
You can get it smaller by removing the shoulder bolt holding the two halves of the frame together. <snip> You can further reduce the size by taking the fork off. If you replace the loose bearings with cartridges for convenience.
Thanks for the reply and the suggestions. I never tried removing the fork, but I did remove the shoulder bolt (as you call it) to see whether the result made packing easier. IMHO (and this is merely what worked for me): not really.

But for Pinigis (and others following this thread) I'd gently suggest this points to a distinction between 'enthusiasts' and the rest of the world. Even the degree of disassembly I considered to be 'reasonable' is far beyond what's on most folks' menu. Indeed, for many potential purchasers, it's probably intimidating to even suggest stuff like this.
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Old 03-18-22, 06:46 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by arbee View Post
Thanks for the reply and the suggestions. I never tried removing the fork, but I did remove the shoulder bolt (as you call it) to see whether the result made packing easier. IMHO (and this is merely what worked for me): not really.

But for Pinigis (and others following this thread) I'd gently suggest this points to a distinction between 'enthusiasts' and the rest of the world. Even the degree of disassembly I considered to be 'reasonable' is far beyond what's on most folks' menu. Indeed, for many potential purchasers, it's probably intimidating to even suggest stuff like this.
I agree with you. When most people ask me about packing their bikes, they assume you can just fold it and put it in the case, but this is rarely possible. We are designing a new case for the Lotus that will not require any disassembly, but that will be impossible for the Swift.
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Old 03-18-22, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by arbee View Post
Thanks for the reply and the suggestions. I never tried removing the fork, but I did remove the shoulder bolt (as you call it) to see whether the result made packing easier. IMHO (and this is merely what worked for me): not really.

But for Pinigis (and others following this thread) I'd gently suggest this points to a distinction between 'enthusiasts' and the rest of the world. Even the degree of disassembly I considered to be 'reasonable' is far beyond what's on most folks' menu. Indeed, for many potential purchasers, it's probably intimidating to even suggest stuff like this.
I had followed the original thread on Swift and saw that it was possible to pack the bike and wanted to do it. I started with a different case and priorities than you did. I felt like taking off the rear fender was too much hassle to go through each time you pack the bike, so I modified the rear fender. I did not post about that.) As for the fork, I looked at changing to cartridge bearings as an upgrade. Easier to maintain and something that would be good if Pinigis incorporates.

I see no harm in posting this stuff. I have never had Bike Friday, but I am not sure that it would be that much easier to pack it.
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Old 03-18-22, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by arbee View Post
Thanks for the reply and the suggestions. I never tried removing the fork, but I did remove the shoulder bolt (as you call it) to see whether the result made packing easier. IMHO (and this is merely what worked for me): not really.

But for Pinigis (and others following this thread) I'd gently suggest this points to a distinction between 'enthusiasts' and the rest of the world. Even the degree of disassembly I considered to be 'reasonable' is far beyond what's on most folks' menu. Indeed, for many potential purchasers, it's probably intimidating to even suggest stuff like this.
Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
I agree with you. When most people ask me about packing their bikes, they assume you can just fold it and put it in the case, but this is rarely possible. We are designing a new case for the Lotus that will not require any disassembly, but that will be impossible for the Swift.
Its not a problem of being enthusiastic or not.

In fact, folding and disassembly are two different things for two different use cases !

Folding is used by people who are for instance commuting with their bike daily and need to carry their bike in some public transport or people using their bike to go shopping and who take their folded bike in the (big) shop instead of leaving it outside. In this use case, disassembly is not an option. For this use case what I call "half folding bikes" i.e. bikes with the rear folding and the front wheel that must be dismounted aren't really good because removing the front wheel when it is dirty (rain, wet road, trail riding...) isn't practical at all and definitely not if you are going to work with your bike.

Disassembly is used for instance by people who travel with their bike and take it on the plane or long distance train to reach the place where they will travel by bike. Fro this use case disassembly is possible combined or not with folding (actually, many people use a not folding bike for this use case, they just disassemble a normal bike, several small wheel bike can be packed as small as a folding one after disassembly).
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Old 03-18-22, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
Its not a problem of being enthusiastic or not.

In fact, folding and disassembly are two different things for two different use cases !

Folding is used by people who are for instance commuting with their bike daily and need to carry their bike in some public transport or people using their bike to go shopping and who take their folded bike in the (big) shop instead of leaving it outside. In this use case, disassembly is not an option. For this use case what I call "half folding bikes" i.e. bikes with the rear folding and the front wheel that must be dismounted aren't really good because removing the front wheel when it is dirty (rain, wet road, trail riding...) isn't practical at all and definitely not if you are going to work with your bike.

Disassembly is used for instance by people who travel with their bike and take it on the plane or long distance train to reach the place where they will travel by bike. Fro this use case disassembly is possible combined or not with folding (actually, many people use a not folding bike for this use case, they just disassemble a normal bike, several small wheel bike can be packed as small as a folding one after disassembly).

sigh.

"Half folding bikes"

You're certainly a glass half-empty sorta guy, aren't you Jipe?

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Old 03-18-22, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
I agree with you. When most people ask me about packing their bikes, they assume you can just fold it and put it in the case, but this is rarely possible. We are designing a new case for the Lotus that will not require any disassembly, but that will be impossible for the Swift.
I wish I could find the photos I've taken of my Swift packed into a suitcase. It tightly fit into a large aireline standard hardshell and I've flown a couple times with it. I separate the two halves of the frame when I pack it. It takes about half an hour and a couple of hex keys, a wrench and a ratchet to break it down and also reassemble. It's a tight fit alright. The fork and toptube are the hardest to pack. Dismantling the headset would save more space, but that always seems more fiddly than I want to bigger around with and I happily could just about make it fit without doing that. Bit Schwinsta makes a very valid point about cartridge bearings being a good thing. The simpler and less messy the headset is to dismantle the better.

Did you manage to get your hands on an original Swift in the end?

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Old 03-21-22, 08:36 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by joey buzzard View Post
I wish I could find the photos I've taken of my Swift packed into a suitcase. It tightly fit into a large aireline standard hardshell and I've flown a couple times with it. I separate the two halves of the frame when I pack it. It takes about half an hour and a couple of hex keys, a wrench and a ratchet to break it down and also reassemble. It's a tight fit alright. The fork and toptube are the hardest to pack. Dismantling the headset would save more space, but that always seems more fiddly than I want to bigger around with and I happily could just about make it fit without doing that. Bit Schwinsta makes a very valid point about cartridge bearings being a good thing. The simpler and less messy the headset is to dismantle the better.

Did you manage to get your hands on an original Swift in the end?
Peter is sending one to me soon. I look forward to playing with it.
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