Removing this should be fun
10-24-21, 12:27 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Removing this should be fun
Honestly I think there should be an entire subform dedicated to removing stuff that has been tragically mis - installed.
Likes For Crankycrank:
10-24-21, 01:18 PM
#3
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: other Vancouver
Posts: 9,835
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 802 Post(s)
Liked 703 Times
in
376 Posts
What, the toothed washer that's spun on the steerer tube? That happened on nearly all the bikes I worked on BITD. Cheap bikes, thin headset washers, and loose tolerances made this a given.
SOP was to grab the channel-lock pliers and turn the washer to put it right. If the headset didn't hold its adjustment, we'd put in a second washer.
SOP was to grab the channel-lock pliers and turn the washer to put it right. If the headset didn't hold its adjustment, we'd put in a second washer.
__________________
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
10-24-21, 02:18 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 4,475
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 961 Post(s)
Liked 1,628 Times
in
1,044 Posts
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
10-24-21, 03:04 PM
#5
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,509
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2744 Post(s)
Liked 3,390 Times
in
2,053 Posts
What, the toothed washer that's spun on the steerer tube? That happened on nearly all the bikes I worked on BITD. Cheap bikes, thin headset washers, and loose tolerances made this a given.
SOP was to grab the channel-lock pliers and turn the washer to put it right. If the headset didn't hold its adjustment, we'd put in a second washer.
SOP was to grab the channel-lock pliers and turn the washer to put it right. If the headset didn't hold its adjustment, we'd put in a second washer.
Likes For dedhed:
10-24-21, 03:13 PM
#6
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,984
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26402 Post(s)
Liked 10,374 Times
in
7,203 Posts
10-24-21, 03:19 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,071
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4199 Post(s)
Liked 3,851 Times
in
2,301 Posts
Some of us are old enough to remember when locking tabless axle washers were first coming on Asian made hubs. many, back then, thought that the lock nuts and cones would be able to self loosen over the miles (lacking the washer tab in axle slot). But we found that this wasn't the case and that fine bearing load adjustments were easier to make if the tabs didn't try to keep the cone from rotating during the adjustment. It's the locknut pressure against the cone (washer between) that holds it all tight, not the washer tab. Now it's hard to find a loose ball, cup and cone, bearing that still comes with a tabbed washer. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
Likes For Andrew R Stewart:
10-24-21, 05:40 PM
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Honestly, it turned out to be pretty easy to turn back into the right position, because the tab wasn't really pronounced enough to hang up in the notched part of the threads. So it turned pretty easily but then I realized that it had damaged the threads and I had to spend some time with the thread restoring file to get those back in shape.
I realized as I was reinstalling it that it was just going to do the same thing again, so I took my Dremel and filed off the little tab, and then installed it like I would the non-drive side of a bottom bracket. I just left it a little loose and then when I tightened everything down, I just let it catch and tighten it the last bit.
Sounds pretty similar to what you guys were talking about. Thanks for all the responses as always!
I realized as I was reinstalling it that it was just going to do the same thing again, so I took my Dremel and filed off the little tab, and then installed it like I would the non-drive side of a bottom bracket. I just left it a little loose and then when I tightened everything down, I just let it catch and tighten it the last bit.
Sounds pretty similar to what you guys were talking about. Thanks for all the responses as always!
10-24-21, 05:48 PM
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
In that same subforum there needs to be a thread of stuck seatpost defeats. Like a series of pictures of progressively more extreme measures being tried on the seat post and then the final picture would be that person chucking the bicycle off the end of a jetty into the ocean.
10-24-21, 06:07 PM
#10
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,509
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2744 Post(s)
Liked 3,390 Times
in
2,053 Posts
10-24-21, 06:24 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18372 Post(s)
Liked 4,507 Times
in
3,350 Posts
Some of us are old enough to remember when locking tabless axle washers were first coming on Asian made hubs. many, back then, thought that the lock nuts and cones would be able to self loosen over the miles (lacking the washer tab in axle slot). But we found that this wasn't the case and that fine bearing load adjustments were easier to make if the tabs didn't try to keep the cone from rotating during the adjustment. It's the locknut pressure against the cone (washer between) that holds it all tight, not the washer tab. Now it's hard to find a loose ball, cup and cone, bearing that still comes with a tabbed washer. Andy
You can certainly find grooved axles.
And, of course, the flat faced axles for anti-rotation washers.
10-24-21, 06:50 PM
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
10-24-21, 07:17 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,071
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4199 Post(s)
Liked 3,851 Times
in
2,301 Posts
Nothing new, at least.
You can certainly find grooved axles. The vast majority of "in hub" axled we see are un grooved. Yes replacement axles, separate of their intended hubs, are still about. (As there are a lot of old freewheeled hubs from the 1970s still in use and many of those riders still want their washer tabs to fit as they widen the OLDs with longer axles).
And, of course, the flat faced axles for anti-rotation washers. This is a completely different topic, the need for the axle to not counter rotate when in an IGH. Do I see a smile on your face while you toss out this curve ball? Andy
You can certainly find grooved axles. The vast majority of "in hub" axled we see are un grooved. Yes replacement axles, separate of their intended hubs, are still about. (As there are a lot of old freewheeled hubs from the 1970s still in use and many of those riders still want their washer tabs to fit as they widen the OLDs with longer axles).
And, of course, the flat faced axles for anti-rotation washers. This is a completely different topic, the need for the axle to not counter rotate when in an IGH. Do I see a smile on your face while you toss out this curve ball? Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
10-24-21, 08:01 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18372 Post(s)
Liked 4,507 Times
in
3,350 Posts
And, of course, those bizarre ones with toothed washers.
But, yes, I think I've seen a few threads gummed up by twisting the washers. And, perhaps have even done that myself.
10-24-21, 08:48 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,071
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4199 Post(s)
Liked 3,851 Times
in
2,301 Posts
Some forks and headsets were made with the flat faces too. Perhaps designed to work with center pull brakes. Not exclusively cable hanger related/required. Independent on cable/brake needs, flats on steerers are common on French bikes of the era I mentioned. I will say that a headset lock washer that has a flat, vs a tab, will hold against the rotation better. But since in use there's no rotational forces during riding that's seen by the headset (excepting bearing drag
) this detail is pretty much only a during assembly/adjustment issue.
And, of course, those bizarre ones with toothed washers.
But, yes, I think I've seen a few threads gummed up by twisting the washers. And, perhaps have even done that myself. This brings up an interesting question. Which is the lesser evil? A tabbed lock washer getting spun out of the groove and thus damaging a spot of threads or the cracks that a flat spotted steerer can suffer from?
) this detail is pretty much only a during assembly/adjustment issue. And, of course, those bizarre ones with toothed washers.
But, yes, I think I've seen a few threads gummed up by twisting the washers. And, perhaps have even done that myself. This brings up an interesting question. Which is the lesser evil? A tabbed lock washer getting spun out of the groove and thus damaging a spot of threads or the cracks that a flat spotted steerer can suffer from?
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
10-24-21, 09:28 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18372 Post(s)
Liked 4,507 Times
in
3,350 Posts
My belief about all of these lock washer rotational control methods is about making assembly and adjustments quicker and needing just one wrench. That we see so many washer tabs spun out of their grooves in hubs, headsets, BBs if only one wrench (placed on the lock nut) is used I suggest the tabs are a poor method. I strongly suggest a second wrench that holds the cone/cup is also used to maintain the bearing cup/cone rotational alignment is the better way, and still needed with tabbed washer assemblies anyways. Andy
But that could be very bad with a tabbed washer.
Perhaps some of the risk to a tabbed headset washer is during servicing, simply loosening the upper locknet without holding the lower cone.
