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Upgrade to Shimano Deore possible for trekking bike?

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Upgrade to Shimano Deore possible for trekking bike?

Old 11-20-22, 03:00 AM
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TheDutchBiker
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Upgrade to Shimano Deore possible for trekking bike?

Hi Bike enthusiasts!
First post here – and a long one. I've owned a Kalkhoff Voyager Pro trekking bike for quite a few years now. I use it for bike holidays, day tours and daily grocery shopping. I've always maintained the drivetrain quite well, but never replaced it. Rough guess – drove about 7500km but never replaced any items as it worked like a charm.

Until now – the chain broke recently. I started looking at different elements, and saw the cassette also showing tear and slightly on the crank. Thinking about, the Front Derailleur also wasn't too smooth. Time now to rethink my options. Replacing so many elements made me curious to upgrade the group set.

When I bought my Kalkhoff, it was delivered with a chaos of elements:
- Front Derailleur: Acera
- Back Derailleur: Alivio
- Cassette: 11-34 HG200 Acera
- Shifters: Altus
- Crank: 48-36-26 Altus
- (Brakes I'll keep as they were maintained by a professional a year ago and they are good)

Now thinking to replace those items to Deore. A few questions:

(1a) I have a square taper BB now. Can I just replace it with a Shimano Hollowtech II BB? Will it always fit?
(1b) if 1a yes: Kan I also place the chain guard mount between the Hollowtech outer ring and my frame? See picture.
(2) If you'll replace all items on the drivetrain from 9S to 10S; is every bike suitable for it as long as you replace all drivetrain items (or lack of space on the frame etc.)
(3) Can you help me seeing if I miss items on this shopping list? All items should be cross-compatible with e/a as seen on Shimano's comparability checker.
- Front Derailleur: FD-T6000 Deore
- Back Derailleur: RD-T6000 Deore
- Shifters: SL-T6000 Deore
- Crank: Deore
- Bottom Bracket: BB-MT501
- Cassette: HG500 (of HG50? volgensmij geen verschil?)
- Chain: CN-HG54 116 (of beter: HG95?)
- Optislick cables for shifters
- Dynamic assembly paste

Last edited by TheDutchBiker; 11-20-22 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 11-20-22, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDutchBiker View Post
Hi Bike enthusiasts!
First post here – and a long one. I've owned a Kalkhoff Voyager Pro trekking bike for quite a few years now. I use it for bike holidays, day tours and daily grocery shopping. I've always maintained the drivetrain quite well, but never replaced it. Rough guess – drove about 7500km but never replaced any items as it worked like a charm.

Until now – the chain broke recently. I started looking at different elements, and saw the cassette also showing tear and slightly on the crank. Thinking about, the Front Derailleur also wasn't too smooth. Time now to rethink my options. Replacing so many elements made me curious to upgrade the group set.

When I bought my Kalkhoff, it was delivered with a chaos of elements:
- Front Derailleur: Acera
- Back Derailleur: Alivio
- Cassette: 11-34 HG200 Acera
- Shifters: Altus
- Crank: 48-36-26 Altus
- (Brakes I'll keep as they were maintained by a professional a year ago and they are good)

Now thinking to replace those items to Deore. A few questions:

(1a) I have a square taper BB now. Can I just replace it with a Shimano Hollowtech II BB? Will it always fit?
(1b) if 1a yes: Kan I also place the chain guard mount between the Hollowtech outer ring and my frame? See picture.
(2) If you'll replace all items on the drivetrain from 9S to 10S; is every bike suitable for it as long as you replace all drivetrain items (or lack of space on the frame etc.)
(3) Can you help me seeing if I miss items on this shopping list? All items should be cross-compatible with e/a as seen on Shimano's comparability checker.
- Front Derailleur: FD-T6000 Deore
- Back Derailleur: RD-T6000 Deore
- Shifters: SL-T6000 Deore
- Crank: Deore
- Bottom Bracket: BB-MT501
- Cassette: HG500 (of HG50? volgensmij geen verschil?)
- Chain: CN-HG54 116 (of beter: HG95?)
- Optislick cables for shifters
- Dynamic Montagepasta
Yes you can upgrade a taper square bb by a hollow tech II bottom bracket without any problem, I did this when I upgraded my old Merida which was fitted with old deore lx 21 speed biopace crank to an xt-780-t hollow tech II crank. Note my 1992 Merida was a 21speed bike originally,now it has 30 and I won 750 gr when upgrading the drive train. Yes, every modernbike is suitable for an upgrade from 9 to 10 speeds
I would personnally upgrade your bike with XT-T8000 stuff much more durable and reliable than the deore
For the cassette I would rather get a XT 771 -10 speed cassette sprockets
For the rear derailleur I would rather get a Shimano XT RD 8000T
For the crank I would rather get Deore XT FC 8000T Crank set
For the front derailleur don't know if it is down swing or topswing but get betterget a Shimano Deore XT FD T8000 top swing / Shimano Deore FD T 8000 downswing
For the shifter , better get the Shimano SL XT T-8000 Right and Shimano SL XT T-8000 Left
The CN HG95 is not available but check ebay you never know.
Good luck in what ever you decide and choose.
Best regards
Georges
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Old 11-20-22, 07:47 AM
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You'll need a chaincase compatible crankset.
https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/produ...0/FC-T671.html

Honestly 7500km isn't a whole lot of miles to be replacing the complete drive train. Sounds like you need to do maintenance (cleaning/lubing drivetrain) more frequently.
My 6600 Ultegra commuter has probably 24000 km and I've only replaced the cassette a couple times, chains & cables annually, and brake pads a couple times.
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Old 11-20-22, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by georges1 View Post
Yes you can upgrade a taper square bb by a hollow tech II bottom bracket without any problem, I did this when I upgraded my old Merida which was fitted with old deore lx 21 speed biopace crank to an xt-780-t hollow tech II crank. Note my 1992 Merida was a 21speed bike originally,now it has 30 and I won 750 gr when upgrading the drive train. Yes, every modernbike is suitable for an upgrade from 9 to 10 speeds
....
Georges
Hi Georges!
Thanks for your elaborate reply. Reassuring to know any square taper can be replaced by a HT II.
I have no doubt the XT set will be superior to the Deore, but it almost doubles the price. Coming from Acera/Altus/Alivio, a full Deore set should already be a huge step – and I have doubts spending so much on a new gearset.

Regarding the question about the chain case mount: will it also fit with a HT II ring?
Thanks!
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Old 11-20-22, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
You'll need a chaincase compatible crankset.
Can't add your link

Honestly 7500km isn't a whole lot of miles to be replacing the complete drive train. Sounds like you need to do maintenance (cleaning/lubing drivetrain) more frequently.
My 6600 Ultegra commuter has probably 24000 km and I've only replaced the cassette a couple times, chains & cables annually, and brake pads a couple times.
Thank you too .
You are very right – it's just the chain and cassette, the crank little and other items are not suitable for replacement. I've just cleaned the chain in between, so other items I could have taken better care for. The bike has been used for 2 years in Sweden (of which during tough winters), afterwards in The Netherlands in normal conditions. For my new set, I'll take better care of other parts .

Regarding the chain case: this is the current situation (can't add the photo's here as I'm a newbie--- chain guard: pasteboard [dot] co/duE6W91iFUey.jpg – full bike: pasteboard [dot] co/47F7LnSyNm2s.jpg)
The FC-6010 shows on the Shimano site that it's compatible with a chain guard. Is that also for my type of external chain guard?

Thank you!
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Old 11-20-22, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDutchBiker View Post
Hi Georges!
Thanks for your elaborate reply. Reassuring to know any square taper can be replaced by a HT II.
I have no doubt the XT set will be superior to the Deore, but it almost doubles the price. Coming from Acera/Altus/Alivio, a full Deore set should already be a huge step – and I have doubts spending so much on a new gearset.

Regarding the question about the chain case mount: will it also fit with a HT II ring?
Thanks!
There's more to it than "ANY". You have to know your BB shell specifications i.e.width, threading. Given what it sounds like you have it's likely 68mm or 72mm English (BSA) threaded so the variations of Italian, Swiss, French, 70mm etc won't be a factor.

Learn to read the Shimano tech docs if you plan on doing the work yourself and make sure you understand Shimano compatibility before you order anything, especially if ordering by individual part rather than a groupset. While Shimano is often "plug & play" if you're not trying to combine older/newer, road/mountain you still have to understand what is what.
EDIT - Also the special tools required to remove your old stuff and install the new using a different tool

​​​​​​https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/dm/FC...002-17-ENG.pdf

​​​​​​https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/

​​​​​​https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com

Last edited by dedhed; 11-20-22 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 11-20-22, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
There's more to it than "ANY". You have to know your BB shell specifications i.e.width, threading. Given what it sounds like you have it's likely 68mm or 72mm English (BSA) threaded so the variations of Italian, Swiss, French, 70mm etc won't be a factor.

Learn to read the Shimano tech docs if you plan on doing the work yourself and make sure you understand Shimano compatibility before you order anything, especially if ordering by individual part rather than a groupset. While Shimano is often "plug & play" if you're not trying to combine older/newer, road/mountain you still have to understand what is what.
EDIT - Also the special tools required to remove your old stuff and install the new using a different tool
Sounds good . I have opened the Shimano compability guide almost more frequently then my work mail over the last week, but I was going for an Alivio setup.
But very good tip for those situations!
Now knowing that I most likely can use a hollowtech crank, I'm upgrading to deore .

Question out of curiosity: Shimano has a special T Trekking series, and a special MTB series. They use the same group names within both categories. What is the technical difference between those (if there is one?)
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Old 11-20-22, 11:09 AM
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XT is well worth it if you like the frame and how it feels. XT is probably the most reliable and long lasting groupset that Shimano makes, I have a few derailleurs from the 7-8 speed era still running today (as 9 speed) and I don't treat them well and they keep going. Older XT pedals that just keep rockin' and other stuff. Yes it costs a bit but long term not a huge cost if you ware going to have the bike a while.

In terms of Trekking vs MTB, it is more down to gearing and feel than anything else. The trekking cranks for instance are going to have a different gearing more road/path oriented than mountain biking. The brake levers are going to be 3 fingers vs 1 finger. Probably a triple front derailleur vs 1x or a double. Nothing that you couldn't interchange with but you may want that longer brake lever while touring for more comfort and ease of use.
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Old 11-20-22, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
XT is well worth it if you like the frame and how it feels. XT is probably the most reliable and long lasting groupset that Shimano makes, I have a few derailleurs from the 7-8 speed era still running today (as 9 speed) and I don't treat them well and they keep going. Older XT pedals that just keep rockin' and other stuff. Yes it costs a bit but long term not a huge cost if you ware going to have the bike a while.

In terms of Trekking vs MTB, it is more down to gearing and feel than anything else. The trekking cranks for instance are going to have a different gearing more road/path oriented than mountain biking. The brake levers are going to be 3 fingers vs 1 finger. Probably a triple front derailleur vs 1x or a double. Nothing that you couldn't interchange with but you may want that longer brake lever while touring for more comfort and ease of use.
Good things to think about.
I like the frame a lot, but it's not stiff enough for 'real' bike touring. It also doesn't fit front roller packs – as it has a suspended fork. I like it for day tours (max 80km) and some bike holidays (daily not more then 80km) for a week. Most of the time during the year I'll use it for groceries and errands.

I've just compared a shopping list – with a full Deore set at €279,00 (separate items) and a full Deore XT above €500. For my usage, a difference that I find too big.

Thanks for the infos regarding the difference between MTB/Trekking

On my original shopping list: do I miss any lubes/grease/other things that are necessary for a proper installation? Hope I got most covered with Dynamic's Assembly Paste.
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Old 11-20-22, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDutchBiker View Post
Good things to think about.
I like the frame a lot, but it's not stiff enough for 'real' bike touring. It also doesn't fit front roller packs – as it has a suspended fork. I like it for day tours (max 80km) and some bike holidays (daily not more then 80km) for a week. Most of the time during the year I'll use it for groceries and errands.

I've just compared a shopping list – with a full Deore set at €279,00 (separate items) and a full Deore XT above €500. For my usage, a difference that I find too big.

Thanks for the infos regarding the difference between MTB/Trekking

On my original shopping list: do I miss any lubes/grease/other things that are necessary for a proper installation? Hope I got most covered with Dynamic's Assembly Paste.
Swap out the fork to something that can handle a low rider rack if you want that.

I guess I look at it long term so if you are using the bike with some regularity and enjoy it then yeah XT for an extra $200ish not a big leap

Is your bike carbon because from what I did from my search that paste is carbon paste and you really just need grease, I personally like Phil Wood Grease but any automotive or bicycle specific grease should do the trick. Friction paste is really just for the interface of carbon components and maybe for certainly slippage issues but not a good replacement for grease or anti seize which you could also use if you needed to (but I really only use that with titanium and you don't have to if you are good with maintenance)

Now (jokingly) I have to figure out if my touring bike is stiff enough for touring. It is steel I don't worry or care about it. Unless I have a really noticeably flexible frame I wouldn't worry and if I did I would worry if I had frame damage.
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Old 11-20-22, 11:28 AM
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There are typically different approaches when doing a drivetrain upgrade. It is really up to you to figure out how to approach it.

If you need to keep the bike in use, the easiest approach is to replace the existing 9s cassette and chain, and maybe be a chainring if it is heavily worn. These parts are designed to be replaced.

Cleaning and maintaining them might add to longevity, but riding in tough winter weather speeds things up. If you go this route you will have time to figure out what components you want for your 10s upgrade.

You don’t need to have a complete group. Going with XT-T8000 shifters and rear derailleur and use a Deore crank and front derailleur might give you a better mix. I tend to view shifters, derailleurs, and brakes at the top of the list with cassettes, cranks, levers and pedals below that.

John

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Old 11-20-22, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
XT is well worth it if you like the frame and how it feels. XT is probably the most reliable and long lasting groupset that Shimano makes, I have a few derailleurs from the 7-8 speed era still running today (as 9 speed) and I don't treat them well and they keep going. Older XT pedals that just keep rockin' and other stuff. Yes it costs a bit but long term not a huge cost if you ware going to have the bike a while.

In terms of Trekking vs MTB, it is more down to gearing and feel than anything else. The trekking cranks for instance are going to have a different gearing more road/path oriented than mountain biking. The brake levers are going to be 3 fingers vs 1 finger. Probably a triple front derailleur vs 1x or a double. Nothing that you couldn't interchange with but you may want that longer brake lever while touring for more comfort and ease of use.
True I have three mountain bikes with the former XT-780T group in 30 speeds, I haven't babied them as well, very durable, reliable and smooth shifting stuff , I have also XTpedals on them the SPD SHIMANO XT PD-T780 which are very easy of use and very durable. There were two variants of the XT 780 T cranks FC-T780: 48-36-26 teeth with chain guard FC-T781: 48-36-26 teeth and 44-32-24 teeth which weren't far from the mountain biking versions. Regarding the rear derailleur despite being a non shadow design (I could never stand this design to be very honest), the XT RD-T780-SGS rear derailleur provided the following advantages:
-powerful gear changes
-wide range of stable settings
-dual Servo design, to always keep the same distance between the derailleur pulleys and the sprockets
-improved adjustability, resistant to weather and pollution
-high performance transmission
-easy handling, reliable operation
-intermediate gearing allows you to maintain a good cadence
-high compatibility of sprocket cassettes
I have already XT 780 T spare parts for my fourth mountain bike build and will buy some additional XT T 8000 and XT T 780 spare parts because when parts will be discontinued and hard to find, they will cost more money. I am not into 11 speed and12 speed MTB, I tried but definitely not for me, plus the design of new shimano rear derailleurs looks ugly.
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Old 11-21-22, 04:55 AM
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Thanks people, very useful information. Gathering items now in the shopping basket, I see on Bike24 that "Cassette CS-HG500-10 11-34 is not compatible with a 3-speed crank.

Isn't that odd? I don't see any of such a message on Shinamo's website – neither on their product line overview. Safe to go with this option?
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Old 11-21-22, 07:10 AM
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https://www.bikeforums.net/hybrid-bi...ed-cranks.html
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Old 11-26-22, 05:12 PM
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Ordered my stuff and started assembling today! First time this kind of work, but enjoying it a lot!

The torque wrench I ordered was unfortunately faulty (cheap one from Amazon). I went too far mounting.. so it damaged the 0,7mm spacer ring.

I’ll be replacing it - but 0,7mm isn’t a lot. It must be there for a reason, but if I wouldn’t have this ring.. what could potentially go wrong?
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Old 11-26-22, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDutchBiker View Post
Thank you too .
You are very right – it's just the chain and cassette, the crank little and other items are not suitable for replacement. I've just cleaned the chain in between, so other items I could have taken better care for. The bike has been used for 2 years in Sweden (of which during tough winters), afterwards in The Netherlands in normal conditions. For my new set, I'll take better care of other parts .

Regarding the chain case: this is the current situation (can't add the photo's here as I'm a newbie--- chain guard: pasteboard [dot] co/duE6W91iFUey.jpg – full bike: pasteboard [dot] co/47F7LnSyNm2s.jpg)
The FC-6010 shows on the Shimano site that it's compatible with a chain guard. Is that also for my type of external chain guard?

Thank you!
IMO, when you move up the ladder in componentry, it's a law of diminishing returns. Deore is a world better than Acera/Alivio. You probably won't notice much improvement going from Deore to XT unless saving a few grams is important.

I would leave the crankset alone. Replace it only if the chain skips on it once you get all the new components installed. Very unlikely that the crankset is worn out already.
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