First speed wobble crash
06-20-21, 07:07 PM
#126
Senior Member
'Best' can well be misleading here. These riders often sacrifice safety to highest speed. Like they sit on the top tube, which is now against race regulations I understand. Here she obviously didn't keep the saddle stabilized between her thighs, else it couldn't oscillate like it does in the video.
So if you think Chloe Dygert doesn’t have “best in class” bike handling skills, then I’m not quite sure what to say. When you get into a resonance state, if she can’t get out of it, then pretty much the rest of the cycling population
couldn’t either. From the slo-mo I looked at, it’s pretty clear she was approaching resonance or certainly under damped. Most of the issue here was equipment, IMO.
It’s pretty clear what happened from the video. You can see it directly. She’s in a sweeping right hand curve, her front tire hits a pavement imperfection that starts an oscillation in the frame and pops her even more forward. She has to straighten out because of the oscillation and runs out of road when she hits the guard rail as the curve cuts her off.
Arguably, the frame should not have oscillated from a normal road imperfection yet that’s what happened. If she couldn’t get it back under control, I’m sure I couldn't have. She was waaaaay ahead on the clock at that time, I doubt she was past the edge of control for her on that bike.
It’s interesting that she’s switches bike sponsors. Maybe they couldn’t satisfy her that they’d found the problem. Then again, maybe it’s just a better financial deal. All I know, from an engineering perspective, if I were her I’d have to have a pretty compelling case made for me that they found the root cause before I’d get back on that frame design again in a race.
06-20-21, 10:46 PM
#127
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As you put it, yes. I am not disputing top bike handling skills. But it still stands that pro racers (and not just them) often put safety second to speed. Why would that descending style where you sit on the top tube (conveniently sloping to allow that use to great profit) be ruled as not allowed in pro racing (actually didn't follow that up, but there was talk to that effect it won't be allowed).
But tucking down on the top tube is unsafe for a different reason. But if you get the wobble effect in this position, then you are also screwed.
Her saddle clearly developped strong sideways oscillations, ergo she didn't have it squeezed between legs. I rest my case here.
I recall from two years ago in TDF (I think), one rider went down on flat straight road, for no apparent reason, like he was chopped down. Luckily he took nobody else with him. It looked like his front wheel got turned ninety degrees in a blink... I suppose ^&* happens on bikes engineered to or rather, perhaps, ridden to extremes.
Mind you, it doesn't follow that spending most of your life on a bike, like a pro racers do will somehow give you superior bike handling skills. Else why some would be touted as having poor(er) bike handling skills (usually descending) when compared to other pro racers and its not that they ride the bike any less than others they are compared to (gets noted frequently in race commentary). Many people have those skills like Sagan while not racing bikes at all. BTW I am his fan, in part also because he is almost my countryman.
But tucking down on the top tube is unsafe for a different reason. But if you get the wobble effect in this position, then you are also screwed.
Her saddle clearly developped strong sideways oscillations, ergo she didn't have it squeezed between legs. I rest my case here.
I recall from two years ago in TDF (I think), one rider went down on flat straight road, for no apparent reason, like he was chopped down. Luckily he took nobody else with him. It looked like his front wheel got turned ninety degrees in a blink... I suppose ^&* happens on bikes engineered to or rather, perhaps, ridden to extremes.
Mind you, it doesn't follow that spending most of your life on a bike, like a pro racers do will somehow give you superior bike handling skills. Else why some would be touted as having poor(er) bike handling skills (usually descending) when compared to other pro racers and its not that they ride the bike any less than others they are compared to (gets noted frequently in race commentary). Many people have those skills like Sagan while not racing bikes at all. BTW I am his fan, in part also because he is almost my countryman.
Last edited by vane171; 06-20-21 at 11:13 PM.
06-21-21, 07:23 AM
#128
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Mind you, it doesn't follow that spending most of your life on a bike, like a pro racers do will somehow give you superior bike handling skills. Else why some would be touted as having poor(er) bike handling skills (usually descending) when compared to other pro racers and its not that they ride the bike any less than others they are compared to (gets noted frequently in race commentary). Many people have those skills like Sagan while not racing bikes at all. BTW I am his fan, in part also because he is almost my countryman.
06-21-21, 05:18 PM
#129
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Some pros look very uncomfortable while descending. Others have great skills. I agree all pros are not that great at bike handling, but most are going to be considerably better than average. There's probably just a lot more overlap between pros and non-pros when it comes to bike handling skills rather than fitness/power. Speed wobbles don't seem to be a major problem in the pro-peloton or out in the normal world for that matter. But I would imagine they are more likely to be an issue for a nervous stiff descender than someone with a more relaxed body, pro or not.
I was not a pro, but started racing in the early 80's & was a solid Cat 2 into my 40's. Primarily Crits & some track, some results in the early mountain bike scene. I considered myself a very good bike handler and had a reputation as such among my peers. My hobby outside of cycling was sport bikes ( I'm currently bringing an older 900SS back to life). I was a very competent & fast rider. I was never stiff or nervous in any situation until I started to struggle with wobbles, it was a side effect of them not a cause.
I can say that even if you manage to fix the root cause, once it's in your head it is a tough thing to shake.
06-21-21, 05:42 PM
#130
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It's not a bike handling or skill issue.
I was not a pro, but started racing in the early 80's & was a solid Cat 2 into my 40's. Primarily Crits & some track, some results in the early mountain bike scene. I considered myself a very good bike handler and had a reputation as such among my peers. My hobby outside of cycling was sport bikes ( I'm currently bringing an older 900SS back to life). I was a very competent & fast rider. I was never stiff or nervous in any situation until I started to struggle with wobbles, it was a side effect of them not a cause.
I can say that even if you manage to fix the root cause, once it's in your head it is a tough thing to shake.
I was not a pro, but started racing in the early 80's & was a solid Cat 2 into my 40's. Primarily Crits & some track, some results in the early mountain bike scene. I considered myself a very good bike handler and had a reputation as such among my peers. My hobby outside of cycling was sport bikes ( I'm currently bringing an older 900SS back to life). I was a very competent & fast rider. I was never stiff or nervous in any situation until I started to struggle with wobbles, it was a side effect of them not a cause.
I can say that even if you manage to fix the root cause, once it's in your head it is a tough thing to shake.
06-22-21, 10:05 AM
#131
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It's not a bike handling or skill issue.
I was not a pro, but started racing in the early 80's & was a solid Cat 2 into my 40's. Primarily Crits & some track, some results in the early mountain bike scene. I considered myself a very good bike handler and had a reputation as such among my peers. My hobby outside of cycling was sport bikes ( I'm currently bringing an older 900SS back to life). I was a very competent & fast rider. I was never stiff or nervous in any situation until I started to struggle with wobbles, it was a side effect of them not a cause.
I can say that even if you manage to fix the root cause, once it's in your head it is a tough thing to shake.
I was not a pro, but started racing in the early 80's & was a solid Cat 2 into my 40's. Primarily Crits & some track, some results in the early mountain bike scene. I considered myself a very good bike handler and had a reputation as such among my peers. My hobby outside of cycling was sport bikes ( I'm currently bringing an older 900SS back to life). I was a very competent & fast rider. I was never stiff or nervous in any situation until I started to struggle with wobbles, it was a side effect of them not a cause.
I can say that even if you manage to fix the root cause, once it's in your head it is a tough thing to shake.
06-22-21, 10:24 AM
#132
Blast from the Past
