Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Mechanical disc vs rim brake for crit racing?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway
View Poll Results: What is better for Crit racing
Mechanical disc is better
5
20.00%
Rim brake is better
20
80.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

Mechanical disc vs rim brake for crit racing?

Old 03-27-23, 09:24 AM
  #101  
maxants33
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 51

Bikes: Caliber Astronut, On One Scandal 29er, Trek Procaliber 9, Vitus Energie CRX, Kinesis Athiene, Specialized Singlecross, Pashley Roadking, Bridgstone w/ Xtracycle

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts
So managed to get some mech disk - rim brake comparison.Fitted the TRP spyres from my spares bin to an old soon-for-sale Sonder Camino gravel bike, and bedded in some new pads on a big hill I usually bed in discs at. I was surprised that it took around 10 runs for each wheel to start feeling any bite. That was with new TRP pads on TRP discs. Even after 10 descents, the brakes were not fantastic at locking up the wheels. I then decided to try some corners. With the gravel bike's 38mm tyres, you have lots of grip and could lean nicely. But I tried feathering and testing the brake's modulation entering, in the middle and the exit of the corners - and I was super disappointed. The TRPs basically did not engage noticeably until the lever was almost at the bars. Then the scope for feathering the brakes was tiny, only a few mm of lever pull to work with. This made the dose response curve (pharmacology term) of the brake pull very steep. I did ensure the brakes were setup as required. Pads teed up with the allen bolt adjusters to be as close as possible, cable tension set correctly (tried a range of cable tensions in the end). But the overall performance was very meh. Fine for a commuter bike. But not performance quality. I then put the gravel bike away and then dusted off the crit bike for its first trip out this year. The Athena rim brakes felt way better. They were responsive and could start modulating early in the lever pull. The audible noise of braking was sort of helpful too, giving some feedback on whats happening when lightly feathering at corners. Compared to my hydraulic disks, it took a bit more finger power to modulate, but as suggested, this might improve with new pads, cable ect. Based on this experience, I don't see any reason to install mech discs. The rim brakes are actually better than I remember. I still think in a really high pressure scenario, I'd probably prefer hydraulic discs, just for the ability to micro adjust with barely any finger power, and the fact I've grown very used to hydraulic discs because I'm mostly off road. But I'm no pro, and the rim brakes work really well - maybe they'll make me a better rider! I must add that I did read that TRPs sometimes work better with certain brands and generations of road levers. I used 5700 Shimano 105 levers, with non-compressionless outers. So maybe if using a different groupset I'd get different results. I hope this side by side comparison helps someone else in the future when trying to make a decision about mech discs vs rim brakes. As said, different components might give different results though.
maxants33 is offline  
Likes For maxants33:
Old 03-27-23, 11:53 AM
  #102  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,174
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4273 Post(s)
Liked 4,707 Times in 2,907 Posts
I'm not that surprised to be honest. It's asking a lot to get decent power out of a relatively small disc with cable actuation. It's hydraulic or bust for me regarding disc brakes.
PeteHski is online now  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 03-27-23, 12:50 PM
  #103  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,453

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7628 Post(s)
Liked 3,451 Times in 1,823 Posts
I use Spyres with 5800 105 levers .... they are on par with any good mechanical rim brake.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 03-27-23, 03:51 PM
  #104  
maxants33
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 51

Bikes: Caliber Astronut, On One Scandal 29er, Trek Procaliber 9, Vitus Energie CRX, Kinesis Athiene, Specialized Singlecross, Pashley Roadking, Bridgstone w/ Xtracycle

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs
I use Spyres with 5800 105 levers .... they are on par with any good mechanical rim brake.
I did wonder, the 5800s up have a better feel than the 5700s. But that issue of unknown compatibility with TRPs and road levers is pretty off putting for me
maxants33 is offline  
Old 03-27-23, 03:59 PM
  #105  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,453

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7628 Post(s)
Liked 3,451 Times in 1,823 Posts
If I were you I would go rim or hydro .... in-between is nowhere.
Maelochs is offline  
Likes For Maelochs:
Old 03-27-23, 05:55 PM
  #106  
ummed
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 104

Bikes: 2009 S-Works Tarmac SL2, 2012 S-Works Venge, 2014 Specialized CruX Pro, 2019 S-Works Tarmac SL6

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 27 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs
If I were you I would go rim or hydro .... in-between is nowhere.
For funsies I'm going to rebuild my old Venge with hydro rim brakes
ummed is offline  
Likes For ummed:
Old 03-29-23, 04:29 AM
  #107  
Germany_chris
I’m a little Surly
 
Germany_chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Near the district
Posts: 2,427

Bikes: Two Cross Checks, a Karate Monkey, a Disc Trucker, and a VO Randonneur

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 698 Post(s)
Liked 1,292 Times in 646 Posts
Originally Posted by maxants33
So managed to get some mech disk - rim brake comparison.Fitted the TRP spyres from my spares bin to an old soon-for-sale Sonder Camino gravel bike, and bedded in some new pads on a big hill I usually bed in discs at. I was surprised that it took around 10 runs for each wheel to start feeling any bite. That was with new TRP pads on TRP discs. Even after 10 descents, the brakes were not fantastic at locking up the wheels. I then decided to try some corners. With the gravel bike's 38mm tyres, you have lots of grip and could lean nicely. But I tried feathering and testing the brake's modulation entering, in the middle and the exit of the corners - and I was super disappointed. The TRPs basically did not engage noticeably until the lever was almost at the bars. Then the scope for feathering the brakes was tiny, only a few mm of lever pull to work with. This made the dose response curve (pharmacology term) of the brake pull very steep. I did ensure the brakes were setup as required. Pads teed up with the allen bolt adjusters to be as close as possible, cable tension set correctly (tried a range of cable tensions in the end). But the overall performance was very meh. Fine for a commuter bike. But not performance quality. I then put the gravel bike away and then dusted off the crit bike for its first trip out this year. The Athena rim brakes felt way better. They were responsive and could start modulating early in the lever pull. The audible noise of braking was sort of helpful too, giving some feedback on whats happening when lightly feathering at corners. Compared to my hydraulic disks, it took a bit more finger power to modulate, but as suggested, this might improve with new pads, cable ect. Based on this experience, I don't see any reason to install mech discs. The rim brakes are actually better than I remember. I still think in a really high pressure scenario, I'd probably prefer hydraulic discs, just for the ability to micro adjust with barely any finger power, and the fact I've grown very used to hydraulic discs because I'm mostly off road. But I'm no pro, and the rim brakes work really well - maybe they'll make me a better rider! I must add that I did read that TRPs sometimes work better with certain brands and generations of road levers. I used 5700 Shimano 105 levers, with non-compressionless outers. So maybe if using a different groupset I'd get different results. I hope this side by side comparison helps someone else in the future when trying to make a decision about mech discs vs rim brakes. As said, different components might give different results though.
The internet loves spyers but my experience with them is much like yours. I fixed it by going with expensive cable discs because I still want cable brakes but if you're not wed to cables hydraulic is the right answer
Germany_chris is offline  
Likes For Germany_chris:
Old 03-29-23, 04:40 AM
  #108  
maxants33
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 51

Bikes: Caliber Astronut, On One Scandal 29er, Trek Procaliber 9, Vitus Energie CRX, Kinesis Athiene, Specialized Singlecross, Pashley Roadking, Bridgstone w/ Xtracycle

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Germany_chris
The internet loves spyers but my experience with them is much like yours. I fixed it by going with expensive cable discs because I still want cable brakes but if you're not wed to cables hydraulic is the right answer
Yea, that's interesting. I'm still open minded to cable disks. For instance - have that classic dream of building a cable disk touring bike on a surly ogre. But would probably go for something like the Paul Clamper disks, surely something that expensive can perform.
maxants33 is offline  
Old 03-29-23, 04:52 AM
  #109  
Germany_chris
I’m a little Surly
 
Germany_chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Near the district
Posts: 2,427

Bikes: Two Cross Checks, a Karate Monkey, a Disc Trucker, and a VO Randonneur

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 698 Post(s)
Liked 1,292 Times in 646 Posts
Originally Posted by maxants33
Yea, that's interesting. I'm still open minded to cable disks. For instance - have that classic dream of building a cable disk touring bike on a surly ogre. But would probably go for something like the Paul Clamper disks, surely something that expensive can perform.
Klampers are what I use.
Germany_chris is offline  
Old 03-29-23, 08:43 PM
  #110  
ummed
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 104

Bikes: 2009 S-Works Tarmac SL2, 2012 S-Works Venge, 2014 Specialized CruX Pro, 2019 S-Works Tarmac SL6

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 27 Posts
Originally Posted by maxants33
Yea, that's interesting. I'm still open minded to cable disks. For instance - have that classic dream of building a cable disk touring bike on a surly ogre. But would probably go for something like the Paul Clamper disks, surely something that expensive can perform.
It's been a while since I had them, but TRP HY/RD worked pretty well.
ummed is offline  
Likes For ummed:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.