Positron400

Hi,

my LBS has a Puch (Austro-Daimler) Vent Noir (smokey black) on offer for ~350€ - It would be my size (bit smaller (56cm) than what i usually ride (58cm)). Seems to be in good conditon. Some ripped decals, but overall quite good.
I would want to use it as a commuter/touring bike.
Unfortunately, I cannot provide pictures.

Would that be a fair price?

BR

TugaDude

Any idea what year it is? The paint finish on some Vent Noirs was said to be super durable. I've seen some AD's in person and was always impressed with the workmanship and overall aesthetics. So what to offer? Assuming it is literally frame only, no BB, no headset, seat post, etc. it is going to cost quite a bit to build it out. That's assuming your parts bin isn't stocked with the proper sized components. So there's that.

I think the listed price is a bit optimistic. Maybe they don't care if it sells quickly or not and priced it accordingly. To me it isn't worth that much by itself. I'd be interested at $200.00 USD or less.

One tactic you could try, and I've been successful with it myself, is to tell the shop if they make you a good deal on the frame that you will purchase some of the components to finish it off through them. That's if they have some appropriate components. Don't know what your goal is, build back to original spec. or a resto-mod approach. Worth a shot. I purchased a frame that was hanging in a shop for half of what they were asking. The shop was happy, I was happy, it was a win/win.

Good luck.

Positron400

If I recall correctly, it comes with a BB and Headset (fork obvs). I have no idea about the year unfortunately. Would that somehow affect the value? I am not "jumping" at the offer, since I was only looking for a replacement frame for my, now retired commuter. However, owning a piece of, to me at least, bike history would be quite cool. Despite the fact that where I am located and puch/AD bikes are quite ubiquitous, paying only 200 € would not really fly. (would've jumped on the offer it that was the case)

My plan is to use it as a commuter/touing bike (albeit being a bit of a waste for a commuter, given how awesome that frame's history is. Then again my current, now retired commuter cost me 500 € new and that was really nothing special). Parts i have, or would strip from a different bike, so i don't expect this to be a major expense. No plans on building it back to it's original spec.(it's beyond me how 53/39 - 12-25 was ever considered "useful gearing" ), however cool that would be. Likely some 2x10.

I like your idea of haggling by means of buying stuff from them. I spoke to the owner, and he basically has all the parts to restore it to it's original spec, but wouldn't since the decals were not up to par for a proper restauration.

Mr. 66

That's a fine bike and should ride great. I had an Inter-10, sold that and bought the Noir. The price sounds like it's right there.

Honestly, holdout for your exact size.

Positron400

I am not sure one of them would come along in my size anytime soon. Would that make a considerable difference? I already ride a pretty short (70 cm) stem so I guess i could make up the diference easily?

rustystrings61 

There were varying Vent Noirs. The original variant c.1976, looked like this -



- and as I recall was more of a matte black paint with gold decals, etc. Note that the ONLY brazed on fitting was a little pip on the underside of the down tube to keep clamp-on shifters from sliding down. These were full Reynolds 531 double-butted tubing, silver-brazed in Graz, Austria. Apart from the seat stay caps, they are identical to contemporary Puch Royal Force and Royal X frames, and they actually have enough clearance for 630x32 tires with fenders. Out of the box they were spaced 120 mm at the rear and came stock with full black anodized Dura-Ace.

Later, the Vent Noir evolved and began getting brazed on bottle bosses, brake cable tunnels and a rear derailleur cable stop. They went to a black chrome, or smoked chrome look, like this one -


As far as price? Who can say, but they were all fine bikes. When I reclaimed my long-lost Royal X, I thought it was primarily about nostalgia. Then I rode it, and it will match anything else I've ever had, if not exceed it.

Positron400

thanks for showing me these variants. I think, the one in question had no rear cable stop but one of them clamp on-thingies, which i guess, would take it closer to the 1979 variant. How would I go about the rear spacing then? 120 is quite tight. Would I have to fit a 5sp cassette in there? I am not opposed to that generally (would have to pair it with a triple in the front then), but wouldn't the required wheel be hard to come by?
I don't think i would want to cold-set a frame like that, to keeping the original intact if I were to want to sell it later.

rustystrings61 

Clamp-on rear cable stop will be the earlier variant with nice tire clearance, built for a 5-speed FREEWHEEL, not a cassette. It would not be hard to go to 126 mm, which works with 6 & 7-speed freewheels OR cassettes. For that matter, 130 mm isn't that hard, either, as the chainstays are relatively long. The brutal truth is that the collectible A-Ds are the Ultima and SuperLeicht models and the Vent Noir with the black chrome finish. The earlier painted ones don't get the same respect, I think, but they remain excellent bikes.