70slibrarymusic

Been trying to look around and haven't seen anyone actually trying this. I know the general consensus is to, by all means, have the bottom bracket replaced but here's the situation:


-Bike bought off some old guy as a project bike. I managed to get everything off except the bottom bracket which has play.

-I damaged the splines/teeth on the plastic cup on the non-drive side.

-Fixed cup on drive side won't budge even with my full strength, jumping and all with a breaker bar-I stupidly sprayed some WD-40 on the axle thinking it would go to the threads to help loosen it up. Woke up in the morning to find grease flushed out and the sound of metal on metal whenever I try to spin the axle. Lesson learned.


Now, I have several questions:


​​​​​​1) Is there a way for me to re-grease the BB without disassembly? I was thinking of maybe flushing it out with kerosene and compressed air, then using white lithium grease spray liberally from the outside. I wouldn't mind doing this once or twice a week to be honest til I can find a machine shop that can work on this. Do you guys think this would work?


2) How do I get penetrating oil on the threads if I can't remove both sides? Can I drip it from the seat tube or do I just lay it on its side and put it on the sides of the cups hoping it would drip down the threads?


Some additional questions:

3) As I was trying to get the quill stem (It is a Shimano Dura-ace quill stem with the hidden hex bolt far down) out, I loosened the hex bolt and it suddenly became stuck. I managed to get the stem out with a lot of effort but the hex bolt is still stuck, can't loosen or tighten. Tried unscrewing the expander but that too would not budge. Any ideas?

4) Bar end shifters basically rusted in place on the drop bars. Right shifter's hex bolt is rounded out, the left won't budge even after 2 days of being soaked in WD-40. Can I just drill the bolts out on these? I don't really need to use them as the bike also came with down tube shifters.

I've only been cycling for less than a year so please excuse the newbie-ness. This is the first bike I ever bought for myself and I really don't want to give up on it just yet. LBS advised me to bring it to a machine shop to have it heated and torqued on a proper bench vice. I'm kinda broke right now so I don't think I'll be able to bring it to a machine shop soon but I really wanna ride the bike. Hope you guys can help me out and thanks!

Soody

A critical thing that you're maybe not doing is to bolt the tool to your bb, so it cannot cam out. That way you do not risk damaging the splines, and can apply MAXIMUM force. Makes it way easier.
Crank bolts are M8, with a 1.0 thread pitch (metric fine) and so you just need that but longer.

It's a fight you can win. The splines are stupidly strong. You can apply so much force. Get a longer lever. Get a friend.

seypat

Plastic cup? Is it a cartridge BB?

dmark 

If BSC threaded fixed cup unscrews clockwise (to the right). You may know this but I see this is your first post. But an old bike with likely rust....
Good luck.

daverup 

70slibrarymusic It sounds like you might need some additional help with this one. The local bike shop obviously does not want to deal with it.
Maybe you could find someone else to help with it. Is there a bike co-op nearby? If so, maybe they could help you with the difficult parts. Having the proper tools and some skill in dealing with older bikes would be a big help. Failing that, maybe another bike shop, or they could recommend someone else that could help.
There will be the cost of the replacement bottom bracket plus other stuff that must be fixed.
Good luck

nlerner

My penetrant of choice is a 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid. Much more effective than WD-40, so that’s one thing to try on that DS cup. But I’ve also encountered very stuck cartridge BBs and had to bring out the sawzall in one case!

JackJohn

Hi and welcome, hard to tell without seeing the cups. If you go for a diy solution, in this forum you will find several methods to remove a bottom bracket. For the fixed cup, as mentioned above, you should try to use good penetrant oil (potentially it may reach the threads from the seat tube), confirm the unscrewing direction, then from the spindle bolt use some washers and other stuff (I also use a piece of wood) to press the wrench sitting on the fixed cup and prevent it to slip away. When torque is not enough I use a hammer on the wrench and after a few hits all my fixed cups have been removed.

Road Fan

This can be solved, but I have some more questions.

1. keep posting to build your post count up to 10. Then you should be eligible to share pictures.

2. there are two basic kinds of square taper bb. One is a cartridge type and the other is cup and spindle type. the plastic toothed thing you mentioned should be on the left side, viewed as you sit on the bike to ride it. If so that is probably a Shimano or Shimano style cartridge bb. It’s also not likely to be cup and spindle because if it was there should be a visible lock ring on the left, and you would be complaining about different problems.

3. You need to have the right tool to engage those splines on the plastic end and on the metal splines on the right side. The tool should fit both ends. You can buy the tool as a big socket for a socket wrench set, or you can get one with a built in handle. The built in one helps to avoid over tightening, The socket type allows you to add driver extensions of any length, to be better able to loosen over tightened ones. Also that tool should just notch into the damaged plastic side and let you loosen it pretty readily. The handle types are made by Park, Pedro’s, and other bike tool companies,

4. if you actually have those splines, your metal end is aluminum (aka “alloy”) mated by threading to the steel of the frame. The frame could have rusted and the alloy could have corroded. But if you unscrew the plastic one first, it’ll be easier to break any alloy to steel corrosion.

this is all based on the assumption of what kind of bb you have, but I could be wrong! I can only make sure with pictures.

jeirvine 

Barcons, bottom brackets, and pedals all can have threads the opposite of what you'd expect. E.g. you remove barcons by screwing the hex in (clockwise). So confirm which way you need to loosen things before cranking too hard.

Road Fan

This is a great point! If you take it to a good bike shop they should be able to take yours out and put in a new one. While it’s possible to overhaul a cartridge bb it’s not commonly done, so I’d you really blew out all the grease yhats the recourse. As well, it’s not likely you blew it all out, because cartridge bearings usually have some built in sealing.

nlerner

A tool like this one is really helpful to hold the wrench in place. It threads onto the BB spindle while it engages with the splines of the cup.

Chombi1 

What might work on getting the BB cup off is a bit of impact force. Like careful hits with a mallet or hammer on the BB cup wrench handle you are using, could persuade it to turn. Also, try to use the best penetrants you can find for the job. Stuff like WD40 usually won't cut it. Consider using CRC's "Freeze -Off". I had good results with it whenremoving seized BB cups.

70slibrarymusic

Yes it is a sealed cartridge. I was told by my LBS.

70slibrarymusic

It is I believe a sealed cartridge. Not sure of the make but Shimano would make sense as (aside from being in Asia) all the other parts on the bike are Japanese (Suntour, Shimano). I've read around and I think you are right. The steel frame is rusty and the BB is not. I do have a BB tool, rookie mistake for me as I tried to torque on the NDS plastic side without properly securing the BB tool. I did that method (of bolting on the BB) for the DS, to no success. I certainly know penetrating oil would make this easier but I just don't know where exactly to put it. Hope this clears up questions.

70slibrarymusic

I'll give this another shot. That still leaves me with the other side with the rounded hex bolt. Really like the handlebars so I'm willing to sacrifice these shifters. Can I just drill them off or attack with a dremel from the point it connects to handlebars?

70slibrarymusic

The sound it makes is quite alarming though. It sounds like bare ball bearing rubbing against bare metal. I guess I could still ride it around different bike shops. It's encouraging to hear that you guys think a good bike shop will be all I need, will try to look for that!

obrentharris 

If you tell us where you are located we might be able to suggest some local resources.
Brent

dedhed

Some are tougher than others.

Road Fan

Oh, ok that’s a spark plug socket! I would want assistants in that case, At least one to hold that one in place! A big pull on the lever could cause it to rotate off of the BB, sending you flying ass over teakettle! Also. The bicycle can rotate if it’s not clamped to a stable stand like a Park or similar.

dedhed

The tool (BBT-22) was bolted into the BB, bearings were literally gone and at this point the spindle was out. I couldn't put the breaker bar into the tool directly because of the bolt and the only 1" 6 pt socket I had was a deep. It rotated around to the tire on the ground to give the resistance needed. This was after days of Kroil & heat. It was a guys winter bike with like zero maintenance. I was just happy enough threads stayed in the Al BB shell. I told him this is the last BB this bike will ever see.

70slibrarymusic

Where did you apply kroil? Just from the side?

dedhed

At that point the spindle was out as well as the plastic cup on the other side.

70slibrarymusic

I'm from Manila, Philippines.

3alarmer 

.
...if you have one, a MAPP gas plumber's brazing torch helps a lot on something that is this stuck, as well.
Focus most of the heat onto the alloy screw in cup that holds the cartridge in the BB shell. Then apply the penetrant to the hot assembly.

Sometimes the penetrant will smoke, or even flame up a little. Keep applying it, as you go through the heating and cooling cycle about two or three times.
If you have some Freeze Off (from the auto parts store), hit it with that, while hot as well.

Then bolt the removal tool back on, and use your lever arm extension. They usually come out. The aluminum alloy cup in a steel BB shell in the frame is not the best use of dissimilar metals, unless someone who installed it was kind enough to use an anti-seize compound when they did it.

jdawginsc 

A few questions and suggestions...since a Shimano cartridge...

1. Did you try to loosen clockwise? If BSA (most Japanese, British and American frames are BSA) then the fixed cup/DS loosens to the right. The NDS loosens normally.

2. If you find a bolt that fits the spindle, and a few washers, you can bolt the tool flush to the cup. Then it won’t slip. I have been able to bolt it tight to a plastic cup even when some of the splines were stripped. Then find a long wrench to fit on the tool and hit with a mallet.

3. Separating every part you are going to loosen with WD 40 and waiting a bit makes the removal a little easier.