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Dual suspension commuter?

Old 07-18-22, 02:51 PM
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acroy
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Dual suspension commuter?

Anyone do it?

I've been commuting 20+yrs on front suspension MTB on fat slicks. Roads / route is too darn rough for a road bike or even a ridged flat-bar bike. Up and down curbs, gnarly broken asphalt etc. Like this


last 4 yrs on a Motobecane Ti. Been a great bike.




The bike got destroyed in an accident (everything bent, everything damaged) and I'm playing with the idea of commuting on an high end full susser. Cannondale Scalpel or similar.





thoughts? I've had this itch for years....

fwiw I'm 6'3", 210, strong, my route has 27 start/stop intersections in 7 mi so there is a LOT of stop/go. Ti bike rides like a dream but is borderline too flexy. Previous Alu mtb was stout but rode like chit Bike needs to be strong. Among the lightweights, C-dale seems maybe the stoutest, 325lb max rider weight (!) and I friggin love the Lefty fork.
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Old 07-19-22, 06:45 AM
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Large wheels and large quality tires at lower pressure will deal with potholes and will be lighter and faster.

Suspension adds maintenance, pedal bob, weight etc. Outside MTB, I don't see that being better overall.

My rigid bike with 29x2.15" front and carbon fork deals with all roads comfortably and is light and quick.

Good suspension needs maintenances ever 100 hours. And cheap suspension is just a boat anchor.
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Old 07-19-22, 12:17 PM
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no one on a full susser?
I'm running Schwalbe 2.0x29 right now, 40lbs
I don't mind the maintenance. Fork / shock refresh 1/yr has been plenty sufficient. Suspension set up for street has no bob - I run low-speed compression damping 1 click from locked out, I can stand & hammer on the bike w/no fork movement. The suspension is effectively locked out but for sharp impacts.
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Old 07-19-22, 03:16 PM
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Unless you ride a cobbled road like on the Paris Roubaix that's miles long, I would agree full suspension for a commute that's mainly asphalt is excessive. There are technologies like stem suspension (Kinekt), seat suspension like the cane creek thudbuster LT, which add a little weight and can soften many of the imperfections. Carbon seat post, forks and handle bars also work well.
That said, I did borrow a Hilite custom Ti Pinion with a Lefty that had 30mm travel, designed for gravel around Lake Zurich and it was fun on the off road sections and just fast enough on asphalt to make it speedy for commute. I only unlocked the lefty on the rough stuff, and really going on lower pressure tubeless gravel tires was for me the difference. I jumped curbs and went down stairs with ease, but I do that with my own carbon forked Ti bike. Obviously, over rocks and tree roots on a trail, the lefty is nicer, but I don't do that much with my commuter bike, but I also deal with crappy asphalt along the way. I did watch 10 secs of your clip and seems you choose to ride on the section that is being repaired? Stay on the smooth stuff. You're allowed! haha


Originally Posted by Ridinglurker View Post
Large wheels and large quality tires at lower pressure will deal with potholes and will be lighter and faster.

Suspension adds maintenance, pedal bob, weight etc. Outside MTB, I don't see that being better overall.

My rigid bike with 29x2.15" front and carbon fork deals with all roads comfortably and is light and quick.

Good suspension needs maintenances ever 100 hours. And cheap suspension is just a boat anchor.
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Old 07-19-22, 04:08 PM
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Unless your commute is literally over a mountain I don't see the point.
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Old 07-19-22, 06:57 PM
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The theory of such a thing is that the suspension in combination with medium tires would give you a better ride with higher efficiency and better handling than balloon tires aired down. For a commuter bike the problem is luggage and fenders. And price.

Currently thereís a subcategory of road bikes and gravel bikes that have various kinds of hinges and bumpers in the frame. Trek Domane, Cannondale Topstone are examples. Usually itís at the highest level of the frame so itís quite pricey. This is just an extension of the frame evolution that gave us flat chain stays and wishbone seat stays. Thereís at least one gravel bike thatís proper full suspension with a swing arm, Niner RDO.

The idea comes around now and then. Notably in the States there was the Cannondale Bad Boy Jekyll with 700c rims about 20 years ago
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Old 07-19-22, 07:31 PM
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I wrote a bit about this a year or two ago.
Suspension forks on commuter bikes - Bike Forums

Briefly, nearly five years ago, I had a full suspension MTB with a really efficient rear end, and I was sad to sell it for a more utilitarian hardtail. Two years ago I lucked into a screaming deal for a slightly trashed top-level DVO Diamond fork for the hardtail. Now I'm pretty much spoiled. I could go for the idea. But whatever it is, it has to work well. I'm not going to buy something just because it looks like it might make the ride more springy
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Old 07-19-22, 09:50 PM
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I suppose specialist FS bikes for cross country would satisfy your goal.

But the main problem with MTB style bikes is the lack of eyelets for fenders and rack as someone already mentioned. These are essential for commuting.

There is a better option for FS commuter like a FS gravel bike. It will have the necessary mounts for commuting or even touring.

Another possible issue with commuting is theft. So keep the price down. While it is certainly possible to completely avoid theft in commutes if you never have to park the bike in public spaces. But for errands definitely avoid expensive bike unless you live in a very secure, very low crime neighborhood.

In your video, I have many regular routes that rough or even worse. Wide tires on fully rigid bike is good enough for me. I did have seat suspension like Suntour and extra padding on the dropbar.
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Old 07-19-22, 10:00 PM
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I see in the video of your commute that you ride in the lane most of the time the camera was going. The cars are not going over the obstacles on the shoulder or on the ripped up road in the construction zone. What if you just stayed on the road instead of hopping curbs and ridding through every puddle so-to-speak?
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Old 07-20-22, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by acroy View Post
no one on a full susser?
I'm running Schwalbe 2.0x29 right now, 40lbs
I don't mind the maintenance. Fork / shock refresh 1/yr has been plenty sufficient. Suspension set up for street has no bob - I run low-speed compression damping 1 click from locked out, I can stand & hammer on the bike w/no fork movement. The suspension is effectively locked out but for sharp impacts.
If you lock it out, you gain nothing subtle large tires on a rigid bike would do for comfort. But my bike weighs 15 pounds less.

To each their own. But your use proves that a commuter is better without suspension.
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Old 07-20-22, 03:10 AM
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I think the OP just wants a new MTB and is looking for support. And many here are being practical. haha
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Old 07-20-22, 06:17 AM
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Suspension forks are not my cup of tea...I don't like the feeling of "disconnectedness", although, I'm sure I could dial in some setting I'd like, however, my commutes are fairly smooth.

But don't let anybody steal your joy. If that's how you roll, you be you.

I think, if there were some lock/unlock switch for a suspension bike that could be activated on the fly, that might be something I'd be interested in.
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Old 07-20-22, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by BobbyG View Post
Suspension forks are not my cup of tea...I don't like the feeling of "disconnectedness", although, I'm sure I could dial in some setting I'd like, however, my commutes are fairly smooth.

But don't let anybody steal your joy. If that's how you roll, you be you.

I think, if there were some lock/unlock switch for a suspension bike that could be activated on the fly, that might be something I'd be interested in.
There are 2 electronic systems that automatically lock/unlock the suspension. But those are expensive and not normally used on 40# bikes. But there is no rule saying it can't be done.

I think more and more this is just a troll post. At minimum OP already knows what they want and us not agreeing is disturbing.

Just commute with what you want. You don't need our blessing. Any bike is better than a car.
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Old 07-20-22, 07:05 AM
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Here is Trek's bumf on Iso Speed, the frame hinges

Trek IsoSpeed | Trek Bikes
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Old 07-20-22, 07:46 AM
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That's a nasty looking route to ride every morning, but didn't look like anything that can't be tackled with a rigid or hardtail bike with wide tires at a reasonable pressure.

Generally there are only one type of full suspension bikes you commonly see used as commuters, and that is department store 'BSO' suspension bikes - the absolute worst of the worst bikes where people not plugged in to the cycling community have been fooled into thinking the suspension they have seen on Red Bull and Mountain Dew ads is the same as what's on their $199 Wally World Special, and that that level of bike is required for the potholes on their commute. You see them riding before they are convinced that bicycling is difficult and impractical even though they got the most expensive bike you can buy at Toys R Us.

Disadvantages of full suspension bikes (even decent ones) include added weight, efficiency lost to movement of the suspension while pedaling, added maintenance, increased likelihood of theft.
And on maintenance, being a day-to-day commuter is just about the most abusive duty you can put a bike through - 2x daily slogs through sand and road grit in any weather, then dropped in the shed and pulled back out the next morning for more.. Compare that to the 'recreational' use for which FS bikes are intended - a couple times per week for a few hours max on dirt trails, then hosed off and wiped down, and periodic rebuilds for all moving parts (look into the recommended service intervals for suspension parts and you might be surprised - if used as a commuter bike, manufacturers recommendations will have you rebuilding your fork and rear shock several times per year).

SO what is the solution?
  • Rigid or hardtail bike with wide-ish tires (~2.2" or more) with low-ish pressure (maybe 30-40 psi)
  • Practice standing up over bumpy sections to use your arms and legs as suspension. Try shifting to one or two gears higher than your seated cruising gear and stand up and pedal slowly through the rough patches.
  • Get a good quality suspension seatpost like a THudbuster, or even a sprung saddle if you have an upright riding position
  • Ensure whatever bike you have is set up for maximum comfort (however YOU describe maximum comfort, not necessarily set up according to a chart or formula someone else says is correct). An ill-fitting bike will amplify any uncomfortable stretches of road and you will be more beaten and exhausted than you would be on a good-fitting bike.
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Old 07-20-22, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sardines View Post
I did watch 10 secs of your clip and seems you choose to ride on the section that is being repaired? Stay on the smooth stuff. You're allowed! haha
no way I stay the he$$ out of the way as much as possible
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Old 07-20-22, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
The theory of such a thing is that the suspension in combination with medium tires would give you a better ride with higher efficiency and better handling than balloon tires aired down. For a commuter bike the problem is luggage and fenders. And price.
I use a backpack, no racks. I consider myself a pretty advanced commuter, 20+yrs at 5k miles/yr, all weather from ice to 110+F. Not bragging just for context; I have tried a few things over the years and I like my method for me; everyone has their preferences of course. My current bike (and any new one) will have mtb plastic fenders as shown in the pic.

Price I'm insensitive to at the moment. I have only 2 bikes (now only 1) and this is an investment I'll use for many years.


Originally Posted by koala logs View Post
I suppose specialist FS bikes for cross country would satisfy your goal.


But the main problem with MTB style bikes is the lack of eyelets for fenders and rack as someone already mentioned. These are essential for commuting.


Another possible issue with commuting is theft. So keep the price down. While it is certainly possible to completely avoid theft in commutes if you never have to park the bike in public spaces. But for errands definitely avoid expensive bike unless you live in a very secure, very low crime neighborhood.


In your video, I have many regular routes that rough or even worse. Wide tires on fully rigid bike is good enough for me. I did have seat suspension like Suntour and extra padding on the dropbar.

No eyelets needed....

No worries about theft either, I'm fortunate to have private secure storage @ work.

I 'could' (and have in the past) make do with rigid or whatever, this is strictly a 'want' for magic-carpet-ride with acceptable hit to weight/functionality


Originally Posted by greatbasin View Post
I see in the video of your commute that you ride in the lane most of the time the camera was going. The cars are not going over the obstacles on the shoulder or on the ripped up road in the construction zone. What if you just stayed on the road instead of hopping curbs and ridding through every puddle so-to-speak?

I stay the heck outta the way as much as possible. As I approach the intersection, I check behind me then take the lane to make it very clear to oncoming traffic that I'm coming through. then I get outta the way again.


Originally Posted by Sardines View Post
I think the OP just wants a new MTB and is looking for support. And many here are being practical. haha
ya got me


Originally Posted by BobbyG View Post
Suspension forks are not my cup of tea...I don't like the feeling of "disconnectedness", although, I'm sure I could dial in some setting I'd like, however, my commutes are fairly smooth.

But don't let anybody steal your joy. If that's how you roll, you be you.

I think, if there were some lock/unlock switch for a suspension bike that could be activated on the fly, that might be something I'd be interested in.
Yes the 'good' ones can be locked and unlocked via remotes on the bar or switch on the fork/shock.

My current Reba has excellent low-speed compression damping, 'low speed' meaning low 'jolt' input on the fork. IE my fork 'acts' locked out on everything but sharp inputs. You can try hard as you can to compress the fork by hand and it will not budge. I can stand & hammer without it moving. Smack a ridge in the pavement & it unlocks & eats the hit. It's a thing of beauty
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Old 07-20-22, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
I wrote a bit about this a year or two ago.
Suspension forks on commuter bikes - Bike Forums

Briefly, nearly five years ago, I had a full suspension MTB with a really efficient rear end, and I was sad to sell it for a more utilitarian hardtail. Two years ago I lucked into a screaming deal for a slightly trashed top-level DVO Diamond fork for the hardtail. Now I'm pretty much spoiled. I could go for the idea. But whatever it is, it has to work well. I'm not going to buy something just because it looks like it might make the ride more springy
DVOs are nice...

i'll look through the thread - I may have something to add, as I have 17yrs commuting experience on coil/oil fork & 4 on air
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Old 07-20-22, 01:01 PM
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Common objections to suspension are weight, complexity, cost. my 2$ (inflation adjusted)

Weight
I have an extra 20lbs of grease on me so I'm honestly not super concerned about the bike weight . Current ride clocks in about 30lbs, burly build. My backpack is another 5 to 20 (clothes, big lock, picking stuff up on the way home....) so the additional 3-5lbs added from suspension makes little difference in the roughly 250lb total load (bike+rider+bag)

Complexity
After owning suspension for 2.5 decades I have found suspension to be the most reliable part of the bike . flat tires? common. Drivetrain imperfections? of course. Suspension issue? vanishingly seldom.... Service the suspension every year or 2 has been sufficient. I credit a big part of that reliability to Lizard Skins... my previous coil/oil fork went 10yrs with zero service, felt smoother when used than new (nicely broken in) and had zero slop/leaks etc. 10yrs around 50k miles.

Suspension linkage: I have less experience with this, I owned a Titus Racer-X for 10yrs, about 5k miles total on that, zero linkage issue. Good design+good bearing = reliability.

Cost
no doubt there is a hit here. However in this instance I am willing to make a big invstment in something I love & want to ride to work every dam' day rain shine heat cold!!
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Old 07-20-22, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by acroy View Post
I stay the heck outta the way as much as possible. As I approach the intersection, I check behind me then take the lane to make it very clear to oncoming traffic that I'm coming through. then I get outta the way again.
You're an experienced commuter as you wrote. So you know to check behind you (do you have a mirror?) and signal or do whatever is necessary to make your impending left swerve clear to oncoming traffic. Repeatedly moving out of the way again results in repeated swerving to the left. You've apparently managed this for some time, except that we didn't hear exactly how the last bicycle got, "destroyed in an accident (everything bent, everything damaged)."

You're repeatedly expecting drivers to understand your intentions to move into traffic, and a driver failing this can be anticipated with foreboding. You and your bike will be safer if you take the lane and keep out of the gutter. Do let the cars pass, but put the onus on them to pass when it is safe instead of hopping curbs or riding into ditches to let them pass and then popping back out into traffic.

Last edited by greatbasin; 07-20-22 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 07-21-22, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by greatbasin View Post
You're an experienced commuter as you wrote. So you know to check behind you (do you have a mirror?) and signal or do whatever is necessary to make your impending left swerve clear to oncoming traffic. Repeatedly moving out of the way again results in repeated swerving to the left. You've apparently managed this for some time, except that we didn't hear exactly how the last bicycle got, "destroyed in an accident (everything bent, everything damaged)."

You're repeatedly expecting drivers to understand your intentions to move into traffic, and a driver failing this can be anticipated with foreboding. You and your bike will be safer if you take the lane and keep out of the gutter. Do let the cars pass, but put the onus on them to pass when it is safe instead of hopping curbs or riding into ditches to let them pass and then popping back out into traffic.
This! Regardless of what bike you have, jumping curbs and going in and out of the main road gives drivers the chance to lose sight of you. We all know that keeping the driver's attention means being consistent on the road and making intentions clear. Signal early and give wide berth, but make sure you stay on the road. Sidewalk riding may be legal but many drivers zone out sidewalk happenings on auto pilot, especially if there are bushes etc to obscure the driver seeing you. Then there's the pedestrians to think about. That's why places like NYC ban sidewalk riding in undesignated zones.
Please don't take this the wrong way, acroy . I certainly am not discouraging you to ride however you want. A full suspension bike will certainly give you a better ride over rough stuff, curbs, stairs etc. There will be loss of efficiency in the paved stretches on your commute. Wide tires and under gearing will slow you down quite a bit on the good roads. That's one of the reasons I commute with a Pinion gearbox, so I have the range to climb hills and go fast on flat road. I saved 8-12 mins on my commute (18 miles, with 150m elevation climbs) with the Pinion range and fast road tires. Going tubeless, and lower pressures gave me the comfort I wanted, along with carbon seatpost, seat rail, handlebar, fork and wheels on a Ti custom bike. I use a trunk bag on my rack instead of a backpack, because I don't like the stickiness in the heat, and the discomfort of my stuff bouncing when I just go over rough surfaces.
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Old 07-21-22, 07:20 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by greatbasin View Post
You're an experienced commuter as you wrote. So you know to check behind you (do you have a mirror?) and signal or do whatever is necessary to make your impending left swerve clear to oncoming traffic. Repeatedly moving out of the way again results in repeated swerving to the left. You've apparently managed this for some time, except that we didn't hear exactly how the last bicycle got, "destroyed in an accident (everything bent, everything damaged)."

You're repeatedly expecting drivers to understand your intentions to move into traffic, and a driver failing this can be anticipated with foreboding. You and your bike will be safer if you take the lane and keep out of the gutter. Do let the cars pass, but put the onus on them to pass when it is safe instead of hopping curbs or riding into ditches to let them pass and then popping back out into traffic.
Yes I have a Zefal Spy mirror on the DT, fantastic for checking traffic. I stay off pavement drivers want to be on except when I absolutely must take the lane for safety as in the vid. I signal, make a big show of standing & pumping, etc. Then I get back out of the way asap. No problem for me to ride in a construction zone. I'd much rather do that than risk an impatient, distracted driver riding my a$$. I trust drivers very little.

Accident (warning it's violent)
she 'didn't see' me despite it being noon in July, cloudless, 6'3" bright clothing, and 2x300 lumen DRLs not much else I can do except run a strobe, which I've purchased.

Originally Posted by Sardines View Post
This! Regardless of what bike you have, jumping curbs and going in and out of the main road gives drivers the chance to lose sight of you. We all know that keeping the driver's attention means being consistent on the road and making intentions clear. Signal early and give wide berth, but make sure you stay on the road. Sidewalk riding may be legal but many drivers zone out sidewalk happenings on auto pilot, especially if there are bushes etc to obscure the driver seeing you. Then there's the pedestrians to think about. That's why places like NYC ban sidewalk riding in undesignated zones.
Please don't take this the wrong way, acroy . I certainly am not discouraging you to ride however you want. A full suspension bike will certainly give you a better ride over rough stuff, curbs, stairs etc. There will be loss of efficiency in the paved stretches on your commute. Wide tires and under gearing will slow you down quite a bit on the good roads. That's one of the reasons I commute with a Pinion gearbox, so I have the range to climb hills and go fast on flat road. I saved 8-12 mins on my commute (18 miles, with 150m elevation climbs) with the Pinion range and fast road tires. Going tubeless, and lower pressures gave me the comfort I wanted, along with carbon seatpost, seat rail, handlebar, fork and wheels on a Ti custom bike. I use a trunk bag on my rack instead of a backpack, because I don't like the stickiness in the heat, and the discomfort of my stuff bouncing when I just go over rough surfaces.
What custom ti bike? Seven Cycles has been on my radar for a while.... If my route was reasonably smooth I'd be on rigid. It is the opposite of smooth. Been running tubeless for maybe 15yrs, it's fantastic. Schwalbe Allmotion 29x2.0. I swear these things are made of iron - around 10k on them and very little wear. And they are fast and feel great.
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Old 07-21-22, 07:28 PM
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Sorry about the bike. Glad you were evidently not seriously injured. You were riding in the cross walk. That's perfectly valid and this was obviously the fault of the driver and no fault of your own.

Consider also that the driver is making a left turn on a green light where they must yield to opposing traffic. The driver was looking across the intersection for opposing traffic and saw none. That's why they entered the intersection and began the left turn. They did not see the bicycle or any pedestrians in the crosswalk, because that is not what they were looking for. This crash happened because of inadequate surveillance by the driver. Failing to actively monitor the road and surroundings is the single biggest factor in serious crashes cited by at least one study.

Drivers whose thoughts and attention stray from active surveillance can be expected to stop looking to the left and right and around. Cell phones claim a lot of credit for distracted driving these days, but a driver need only be distracted by thoughts about something other than their driving environment for it to affect their eye movements and attention. Drivers get away with listening to music, having conversations, and letting their thoughts stray to innumerable things unrelated to the task of driving at-hand, while they continue to drive with reduced levels of surveillance of their circumstances. Drivers frequently lower their attentiveness to their surroundings, and they get away with it, reinforcing their conviction that they're good enough to continue to do so. It happens such that some are even convinced they can text, check their makeup or shave in the mirror, read the newspaper, drink their coffee, look in the bottom of the bag for the last of the fries from the drive-thru, or stare at the booger they just picked out of their nose. They learn to do the minimum surveillance of their surroundings that allow them to continue driving without incident. If cyclists and pedestrians aren't frequent occurrences, they won't make the cut-off for what needs to be watched out for. This driver entered the intersection looking across the intersection and saw no cars coming. Nothing else made the cut-off for what they needed to regard before they began turning left.

Consider that had you been in the traffic lane, that is where the driver was looking. At 5 seconds in the video, you would have been to the left of the car, and at 7 seconds, you would be approaching the passenger side quarter-panel. The car, had they not seen you were they were looking for oncoming traffic, would have cut you off, but not hit you.

Don't assume that riding sidewalks, crosswalks, and the margins of transitional areas is safer than being in traffic. Drivers are accustomed to looking out for cars that are frequently there. They're also trained by their experience that there is nothing to look for in these other possible areas. I'm not advocating "vehicular cycling" (whatever that means) or riding as if you were on a motorcycle. Staying as far right as practicable is a good idea so long as you're not frequently getting out of driver's tunnel-vision attention zone and then re-entering it. Instead of riding slopestyle obstacles in and out of the margins to get out of traffic, you might be safer being where the drivers are looking.

I think there are cyclists that avoid riding in traffic because they dread provoking the ire of motorists. Certainly, the cyclists that ride in traffic for the express purpose of provoking the ire of others are their own special kind of jerk. What I advise and what I do is to ride where motorists are going to be looking for cars, staying to the right to allow them to pass when they decide it's possible to do so safely. They will have to evaluate the road and traffic and determine when they can make the pass while giving me reasonable space. I ride inside the shoulder when its possible, but I don't swerve in and out of it where it cannot be ridden for a good distance. I won't ride so far right that I'm in the gutter, a ditch, a construction zone, a door zone, or a soft shoulder like grass or deep gravel. I expect that motorists will regard both the sanctity of my life and the freedom I have to determine where I go and how. I don't ride so much with an attitude that my "rights" must be respected, as I ride with the hope that others will choose to regard my life and to cherish the freedom we have together. There are bullies that only regard their selfish interests. They will refuse to regard my freedom to choose where I go and how and might rudely honk or holler. I don't worry about the small possibility that they will disregard my life in a fit of road rage, violating their selfish interest in their own freedom and prosperity, so much as I am concerned with the person who does not get the chance to choose to regard my life or my freedom, because they hit me before they even see me.
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Old 07-22-22, 04:35 AM
  #24  
Sardines
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Originally Posted by acroy View Post
Accident (warning it's violent)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgqh...hannel=MrAcroy
she 'didn't see' me despite it being noon in July, cloudless, 6'3" bright clothing, and 2x300 lumen DRLs not much else I can do except run a strobe, which I've purchased.
What custom ti bike? Seven Cycles has been on my radar for a while.... If my route was reasonably smooth I'd be on rigid. It is the opposite of smooth. Been running tubeless for maybe 15yrs, it's fantastic. Schwalbe Allmotion 29x2.0. I swear these things are made of iron - around 10k on them and very little wear. And they are fast and feel great.
Yikes. Sorry you had to live through that and glad you're back on your pedals! Unfortunately drivers like that are going to be dangerous anyways, irregardless what you do.
You should check out the Falkenjagd Hoplit Pi. They are great builders of Ti bikes, as are Pilot, Hiilite, Boettcher and Nua. I've now seen and ridden the Waltly pinion, I think it's a good option too. Now you'll notice these are all non-US Ti builders. Few US Ti builders like Moots etc bother with Pinion/Gates, and for me that's a prerequisite, along with cables in the headtube. If I'm paying $$$ for a custom bike, I want neat cabling and the drivetrain I want.

Last edited by Sardines; 07-22-22 at 04:38 AM.
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Old 07-22-22, 08:03 AM
  #25  
acroy
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Originally Posted by greatbasin View Post
Sorry about the bike. Glad you were evidently not seriously injured. You were riding in the cross walk. That's perfectly valid and this was obviously the fault of the driver and no fault of your own.

Consider also that the driver is making a left turn on a green light where they must yield to opposing traffic. The driver was looking across the intersection for opposing traffic and saw none. That's why they entered the intersection and began the left turn. They did not see the bicycle or any pedestrians in the crosswalk, because that is not what they were looking for. This crash happened because of inadequate surveillance by the driver. Failing to actively monitor the road and surroundings is the single biggest factor in serious crashes cited by at least one study.

Drivers whose thoughts and attention stray from active surveillance can be expected to stop looking to the left and right and around. Cell phones claim a lot of credit for distracted driving these days, but a driver need only be distracted by thoughts about something other than their driving environment for it to affect their eye movements and attention. Drivers get away with listening to music, having conversations, and letting their thoughts stray to innumerable things unrelated to the task of driving at-hand, while they continue to drive with reduced levels of surveillance of their circumstances. Drivers frequently lower their attentiveness to their surroundings, and they get away with it, reinforcing their conviction that they're good enough to continue to do so. It happens such that some are even convinced they can text, check their makeup or shave in the mirror, read the newspaper, drink their coffee, look in the bottom of the bag for the last of the fries from the drive-thru, or stare at the booger they just picked out of their nose. They learn to do the minimum surveillance of their surroundings that allow them to continue driving without incident. If cyclists and pedestrians aren't frequent occurrences, they won't make the cut-off for what needs to be watched out for. This driver entered the intersection looking across the intersection and saw no cars coming. Nothing else made the cut-off for what they needed to regard before they began turning left.

Consider that had you been in the traffic lane, that is where the driver was looking. At 5 seconds in the video, you would have been to the left of the car, and at 7 seconds, you would be approaching the passenger side quarter-panel. The car, had they not seen you were they were looking for oncoming traffic, would have cut you off, but not hit you.

Don't assume that riding sidewalks, crosswalks, and the margins of transitional areas is safer than being in traffic. Drivers are accustomed to looking out for cars that are frequently there. They're also trained by their experience that there is nothing to look for in these other possible areas. I'm not advocating "vehicular cycling" (whatever that means) or riding as if you were on a motorcycle. Staying as far right as practicable is a good idea so long as you're not frequently getting out of driver's tunnel-vision attention zone and then re-entering it. Instead of riding slopestyle obstacles in and out of the margins to get out of traffic, you might be safer being where the drivers are looking.

I think there are cyclists that avoid riding in traffic because they dread provoking the ire of motorists. Certainly, the cyclists that ride in traffic for the express purpose of provoking the ire of others are their own special kind of jerk. What I advise and what I do is to ride where motorists are going to be looking for cars, staying to the right to allow them to pass when they decide it's possible to do so safely. They will have to evaluate the road and traffic and determine when they can make the pass while giving me reasonable space. I ride inside the shoulder when its possible, but I don't swerve in and out of it where it cannot be ridden for a good distance. I won't ride so far right that I'm in the gutter, a ditch, a construction zone, a door zone, or a soft shoulder like grass or deep gravel. I expect that motorists will regard both the sanctity of my life and the freedom I have to determine where I go and how. I don't ride so much with an attitude that my "rights" must be respected, as I ride with the hope that others will choose to regard my life and to cherish the freedom we have together. There are bullies that only regard their selfish interests. They will refuse to regard my freedom to choose where I go and how and might rudely honk or holler. I don't worry about the small possibility that they will disregard my life in a fit of road rage, violating their selfish interest in their own freedom and prosperity, so much as I am concerned with the person who does not get the chance to choose to regard my life or my freedom, because they hit me before they even see me.
I hear and agree with much of what you say, with a couple caveats:
- If I had taken the lane to be where the driver expected to see cars, I would not have gotten a green light at all. That's how this intersection works, it's on sensors. It does not sense my bike. She would have gotten a protected green arrow, my light would stay red. When there is a car in this lane, I get behind it and follow it through. When no cars (as in this instance) I have to trigger the walk light or I get no light

- It's clear you're very thoughtful and let's acknowledge it, folks active on this forum are very engaged & thoughtful road users. I think we assume other users are similarly thoughtful and give drivers too much credit. I think the majority of drivers are completely and utterly thoughtless, just zoned out; that's sure how they drive. So I've calibrated my riding style such that, as much as possible, a zoned out driver never has the opportunity to hit me. Car drivers naturally zone out non-car-shaped objects. In other environments, ie when I visit my pal in Seattle, drivers are much more aware of peds/cyclists etc, as there are a lot of them. They are uncommon here and thus easy for the mostly-disengaged brain to completely ignore. "I never saw him" I have her saying on audio.

Originally Posted by Sardines View Post
Yikes. Sorry you had to live through that and glad you're back on your pedals! Unfortunately drivers like that are going to be dangerous anyways, irregardless what you do.
You should check out the Falkenjagd Hoplit Pi. They are great builders of Ti bikes, as are Pilot, Hiilite, Boettcher and Nua. I've now seen and ridden the Waltly pinion, I think it's a good option too. Now you'll notice these are all non-US Ti builders. Few US Ti builders like Moots etc bother with Pinion/Gates, and for me that's a prerequisite, along with cables in the headtube. If I'm paying $$$ for a custom bike, I want neat cabling and the drivetrain I want.
Nice options there - good to see Ti has believers, I've always loved the material. The amazing ride of steel coupled with zero corrosion. This bike was supposed to be my 'last' bike.... ah well. Similar boat here, willing to pay the $$ and want the details I want.
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