Ask your small, random, track-related questions here
#5076
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When undertaking a technical task where small variables can mean the difference between success and failure, it's best to watch or be shown how to do it correctly, vs. giving written instructions, hence why that's the default advice to give. The fact that it's the only advice you got and you chose to discard it is totally on you. I could give someone written instructions on how to perform a tracheostomy, but that person would be better off watching one done, or being assisted in doing it, but, the written instructions are better when the other options aren't available. Just because you are looking for diamonds, doesn't make free gold worthless.
Where, in my response, did you find that? Carleton's advice was a platitude: I already know (and do) ask people at every track I go to. But because I'm often a favorite, people are very often not willing to tell me the best lines. So telling me to do what I already try...is not 'advice.'
I followed the guy's line advice and set a new track record. Thanks for not reading well?
ETA: I'm not new to racing. I'm not new to elite competitive sport. But there's backstory here I don't always share: namely, I've been pretty systematically discriminated against/harassed (USAC is well aware of it: one pro road team got a formal letter to leave me the heck alone or else). That's partly why people just don't want to share information on lines with me. The fact that a coach from Canada happened to be there on the day of racing to give me the line information was basically luck.
So I asked here for line information at Alpenrose. And all i got was 'ask a local.' Can you at least see how that is *useless* 'advice' for me?
Last edited by southernfox; 08-25-18 at 08:17 AM.
#5077
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Uhh...LOLWUT?
Where, in my response, did you find that? Carleton's advice was a platitude: I already know (and do) ask people at every track I go to. But because I'm often a favorite, people are very often not willing to tell me the best lines. So telling me to do what I already try...is not 'advice.'
I followed the guy's line advice and set a new track record. Thanks for not reading well?
ETA: I'm not new to racing. I'm not new to elite competitive sport. But there's backstory here I don't always share: namely, I've been pretty systematically discriminated against/harassed (USAC is well aware of it: one pro road team got a formal letter to leave me the heck alone or else). That's partly why people just don't want to share information on lines with me. The fact that a coach from Canada happened to be there on the day of racing to give me the line information was basically luck.
So I asked here for line information at Alpenrose. And all i got was 'ask a local.' Can you at least see how that is *useless* 'advice' for me?
Where, in my response, did you find that? Carleton's advice was a platitude: I already know (and do) ask people at every track I go to. But because I'm often a favorite, people are very often not willing to tell me the best lines. So telling me to do what I already try...is not 'advice.'
I followed the guy's line advice and set a new track record. Thanks for not reading well?
ETA: I'm not new to racing. I'm not new to elite competitive sport. But there's backstory here I don't always share: namely, I've been pretty systematically discriminated against/harassed (USAC is well aware of it: one pro road team got a formal letter to leave me the heck alone or else). That's partly why people just don't want to share information on lines with me. The fact that a coach from Canada happened to be there on the day of racing to give me the line information was basically luck.
So I asked here for line information at Alpenrose. And all i got was 'ask a local.' Can you at least see how that is *useless* 'advice' for me?
#5078
Lapped 3x
Uhh...LOLWUT?
Where, in my response, did you find that? Carleton's advice was a platitude: I already know (and do) ask people at every track I go to. But because I'm often a favorite, people are very often not willing to tell me the best lines. So telling me to do what I already try...is not 'advice.'
I followed the guy's line advice and set a new track record. Thanks for not reading well?
ETA: I'm not new to racing. I'm not new to elite competitive sport. But there's backstory here I don't always share: namely, I've been pretty systematically discriminated against/harassed (USAC is well aware of it: one pro road team got a formal letter to leave me the heck alone or else). That's partly why people just don't want to share information on lines with me. The fact that a coach from Canada happened to be there on the day of racing to give me the line information was basically luck.
So I asked here for line information at Alpenrose. And all i got was 'ask a local.' Can you at least see how that is *useless* 'advice' for me?
Where, in my response, did you find that? Carleton's advice was a platitude: I already know (and do) ask people at every track I go to. But because I'm often a favorite, people are very often not willing to tell me the best lines. So telling me to do what I already try...is not 'advice.'
I followed the guy's line advice and set a new track record. Thanks for not reading well?
ETA: I'm not new to racing. I'm not new to elite competitive sport. But there's backstory here I don't always share: namely, I've been pretty systematically discriminated against/harassed (USAC is well aware of it: one pro road team got a formal letter to leave me the heck alone or else). That's partly why people just don't want to share information on lines with me. The fact that a coach from Canada happened to be there on the day of racing to give me the line information was basically luck.
So I asked here for line information at Alpenrose. And all i got was 'ask a local.' Can you at least see how that is *useless* 'advice' for me?
I can read just fine. Congratulations on your record.
You got advice locally about what you were looking for. Like I mentioned earlier, it was exactly what someone pointed out to do. The fact that it's SOP doesn't make it useless. The kind of information you get is tied to the kind of "research" you do. Gathering intelligence on your own at the event is going to garner you more information than you'll get by asking a question online. If someoene doesn't want to divulge info locally, or let you follow them, then watch. It's exactly what everyone else has been doing and getting by just fine (sometimes also setting records) without all the drama and compliment fishing that is going on right now.
#5079
Uninformed Senior Member
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For more casual events (weekly training/racing) the track/race director is sometimes available, at least in my experience.
#5080
Lapped 3x
Boohoo. What do you think everyone else has been doing before you came along? They show up, get whatever info they can, and compete. You literally described my arrival to just about every event I raced at that wasn't at my local track. If knowing the best line is that much of a priority to you, then go ahead and make it a priority and show up earlier. If "life" prevents that, then you make do like everyone else does.
Last edited by taras0000; 08-25-18 at 09:38 PM.
#5081
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Adamo saddle for track use?
Looking into purchasing a saddle that will provide more aft positioning as well as comfort. The Adamo looks like it could fit the bill. However, the somewhat radical design (and expense) has prompted me to inquire and obtain some feedback before plunking down the cash. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Thanks
#5082
Senior Member
Looking into purchasing a saddle that will provide more aft positioning as well as comfort. The Adamo looks like it could fit the bill. However, the somewhat radical design (and expense) has prompted me to inquire and obtain some feedback before plunking down the cash. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Thanks
The best you can probably do is demo a couple of saddles of different "types" and see which kind seems to work best for you, then narrow it down from there.
#5084
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Saddle comfort is a can of worms as I'm sure you know. Noseless saddles have never worked for me for some reason. Fizik makes the mistica which is sort of like an Arione with the nose chopped off, PRO and Specialized offer similar saddles, adamo/cobb make an assortment of pronged saddles which many TT/triathletes have success with, as they encourage one to "roll the hips" forward. For a more "traditional" saddle Prologo makes the naga and Fizik used to make the Ares (which was basically a Antares shortened to help make it fit a jig)
The best you can probably do is demo a couple of saddles of different "types" and see which kind seems to work best for you, then narrow it down from there.
The best you can probably do is demo a couple of saddles of different "types" and see which kind seems to work best for you, then narrow it down from there.
#5085
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#5086
Senior Member
Looking into purchasing a saddle that will provide more aft positioning as well as comfort. The Adamo looks like it could fit the bill. However, the somewhat radical design (and expense) has prompted me to inquire and obtain some feedback before plunking down the cash. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Thanks
Being big and heavy, comfort means support at the needed points - I use for TT aft rotated position the Bontrager Hilo RXL, short, large and firm. And for the sprint setup the Prologo Nago Pas (non-gel), also firm at side points, center hollowed, and almost flat.
#5087
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I should add that I recently read the Adamo is designed to be ridden closer to the nose. I was riding it farther back, which made it not work for me. I felt like I had to ride bow legged on it. Had I ridden it farther up, it may have been fine.
#5088
Senior Member
Looking into purchasing a saddle that will provide more aft positioning as well as comfort. The Adamo looks like it could fit the bill. However, the somewhat radical design (and expense) has prompted me to inquire and obtain some feedback before plunking down the cash. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Thanks
So it seems that I'm counter culture. I love Adamos. I have 3 different versions on my trainer/road/track bikes and am about to get one for my MTB. Road has the long nose breakaway, trainer has a short Racing 2 and can't remember what's on the track bike, but it's a slightly harder version of the short Racing 2 (they all go by different names nowadays). The people above that say they don't like them may well have chosen the wrong models. There's models that have narrow, wide, long, short noses and differing firmness. Like any other saddle, read up on them and find what suits you. That goes for any brand, not just for Adamos.
#5089
Elitist
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The Adamo saddles are designed for one to perch one's "sit bones" on the two prongs of the saddle. Then one's perineum can rotate past 90 degrees to downward as one adopts a super-agressive TT position.
It's a really precarious feeling when you do it right.
This is difficult to get used to on a road/TT bike. I've heard stories of people slipping off of them and wrecking on the road.
I wouldn't suggest it for the track because fixed gear makes getting into and staying in the right position that much harder. And if you slip off at high cadences, recovering and not crashing is near impossible.
I've seen 1 or 2 top track riders ride them. But, only TT specialists. Not sprint or mass start. The only one that comes to mind is Rebecca Romero (GB, IP/TP specialist) leading up to London 2012.
I had an Adamo that I never took to the track. I used it on the trainer for a few workouts and decided that it wasn't for me for the reasons above. Cobb makes a similar saddle with longer prongs that are connected. I tried that for maybe a week when I was trying to get a deep position for the Kilo. Hated it, too.
I've tried maybe a dozen saddles on the track, and I keep coming back to the Fizik Arione (now called the Classic Arione). It's really good for track as it is long and flat, which allows for one to slide up and back depending on how you are pedaling (back for power, up for spin).
Last edited by carleton; 08-27-18 at 01:03 AM.
#5090
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Oh, the other top rider. Pete Billington's (US UCI Pro, I think) LOOK 495 in 2011 (?) with a Cobb saddle on his Kilo bike:
I think John Cobb designed the Adamo saddles, btw, then started his own company.
I think Baby Puke knows that bike well after chasing it around Hellyer. That's Baby Puke's DF3 next to it
(I almost think I have a photographic memory...or just a good memory of photos...)
I think John Cobb designed the Adamo saddles, btw, then started his own company.
I think Baby Puke knows that bike well after chasing it around Hellyer. That's Baby Puke's DF3 next to it
(I almost think I have a photographic memory...or just a good memory of photos...)
#5091
Senior Member
Oh, the other top rider. Pete Billington's (US UCI Pro, I think) LOOK 495 in 2011 (?) with a Cobb saddle on his Kilo bike:
I think John Cobb designed the Adamo saddles, btw, then started his own company.
I think Baby Puke knows that bike well after chasing it around Hellyer. That's Baby Puke's DF3 next to it
(I almost think I have a photographic memory...or just a good memory of photos...)
I think John Cobb designed the Adamo saddles, btw, then started his own company.
I think Baby Puke knows that bike well after chasing it around Hellyer. That's Baby Puke's DF3 next to it
(I almost think I have a photographic memory...or just a good memory of photos...)
#5092
Senior Member
#5093
Senior Member
most (all?) of KGF ride Adamo saddles, a fair number of pursuit guys overall. It really depends on whether you rotate your hips or sit flat on your saddle for tt/pursuit efforts. They work great to help someone rotate forward and ride very steep (triathletes and US TT guys) but are nothing but saddle sores/shredded thighs waiting to happen for more slack sta riders (UK TTers, a lot of track riders) - the easy way to "guess" if a pronged saddle to work for you is to measure your saddle setback. If it's far behind the bb (and by that I mean at least a few mm behind the -5cm line) you probably aren't a great fit for the pronged saddles. If you are trying to push your way to -5/0 and just feel like you wish you could get farther forward, it's the saddle to go to. Another way is looking at your tdc upper leg. If it's nearly flat at the top you probably don't want a pronged saddle because you almost certainly aren't rotated enough. I agree those pronged saddles aren't great for omnium style riders that are going from drop bar to pursuit bar events because these saddles are only made to be ridden on the rivet. That said, if you ever slide off of one you have it woefully pitifully adjusted. (I will admit wrenching some triathlon races in the past I have seen a few come through that were that poorly set up, but even that is the exception) that just isn't a concern if the person setting the saddle up even glanced at the instructions beforehand.
#5094
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My take:
I have fully converted to the ISM life. PN1.0 is narrow, maxing out at 110mm at the rear, and flat. It works great for the track as i can sit at the back for a seated acceleration and slide forward to spin while keeping my hips rotated. I run it on my road bike too because it is just that comfortable. The other saddles didn't work for me with way too much central pressure on the power, romin, antares, arione, selle SMP, ... i'm sure there are others. The Cobbs were too plush, the SMP was too narrow and felt like sitting on a rock. I did use a Selle Italia Superflow L3 for about a year and thought that was it, but once i started getting serious about track the nose got in the way.
Saddles are where buying used on ebay or facebook helps a lot. You can buy and resell with minimal loss.
I have fully converted to the ISM life. PN1.0 is narrow, maxing out at 110mm at the rear, and flat. It works great for the track as i can sit at the back for a seated acceleration and slide forward to spin while keeping my hips rotated. I run it on my road bike too because it is just that comfortable. The other saddles didn't work for me with way too much central pressure on the power, romin, antares, arione, selle SMP, ... i'm sure there are others. The Cobbs were too plush, the SMP was too narrow and felt like sitting on a rock. I did use a Selle Italia Superflow L3 for about a year and thought that was it, but once i started getting serious about track the nose got in the way.
Saddles are where buying used on ebay or facebook helps a lot. You can buy and resell with minimal loss.
#5095
aka mattio
Y'all:
Piling on southernfox (or anybody else) is extremely wack, getting very old, and making this otherwise almost-good-resource a worse place to be and contribute to. We have slowly built this forum up from a literal single digit handful of users. Please stop showing people the door.
Piling on southernfox (or anybody else) is extremely wack, getting very old, and making this otherwise almost-good-resource a worse place to be and contribute to. We have slowly built this forum up from a literal single digit handful of users. Please stop showing people the door.
#5096
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Y'all:
Piling on southernfox (or anybody else) is extremely wack, getting very old, and making this otherwise almost-good-resource a worse place to be and contribute to. We have slowly built this forum up from a literal single digit handful of users. Please stop showing people the door.
Piling on southernfox (or anybody else) is extremely wack, getting very old, and making this otherwise almost-good-resource a worse place to be and contribute to. We have slowly built this forum up from a literal single digit handful of users. Please stop showing people the door.
#5097
Lapped 3x
Y'all:
Piling on southernfox (or anybody else) is extremely wack, getting very old, and making this otherwise almost-good-resource a worse place to be and contribute to. We have slowly built this forum up from a literal single digit handful of users. Please stop showing people the door.
Piling on southernfox (or anybody else) is extremely wack, getting very old, and making this otherwise almost-good-resource a worse place to be and contribute to. We have slowly built this forum up from a literal single digit handful of users. Please stop showing people the door.
I've been a member of this forum for the better part of 15 years. People have come and gone, but most have stayed. Those that have gone have mostly moved onto other endeavours, or gotten the advice that they came for and either left or lurk. That says a lot about the good quality of the information and people that we have available here. It's a pretty supportive and peaceful space for the most part. Generally, if there is drama, it's not an underlying problem, it's been brought into the forum. The proof is in the thousands of threads available here.
Last edited by taras0000; 08-27-18 at 03:01 PM.
#5098
Elitist
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Agreed.
This forum is one of the slowest, most boring track forums on the internet (past or present)...with the highest signal/noise ratio.
Maybe something happened with SF as I took several days/weeks away from keeping up with things here? Did the posts get deleted? Last thing I saw was the 'big gear for all riders in all kerins conversations'.
Personally, I like to deal with disagreements at a "unit level" and not with "the whole", as in I will disagree with a particular point that is being made, but that doesn't mean that I disagree with that person as a whole.
I think I make my points very clear in the threads.
I also feel like I'm open to change and open to being refuted. I actually welcome being proven wrong as it is an opportunity for me to ditch old/bad info and adopt new info. I gain nothing when my ideas are confirmed. I gain a LOT when they are disproven!
If I've been out of line in particular, please let me know where and when.
EDIT:
I learned of the concept of approaching debates as "Which idea is right?" not "Which person is right?". That switch alone defuses a lot.
This forum is one of the slowest, most boring track forums on the internet (past or present)...with the highest signal/noise ratio.
Maybe something happened with SF as I took several days/weeks away from keeping up with things here? Did the posts get deleted? Last thing I saw was the 'big gear for all riders in all kerins conversations'.
Personally, I like to deal with disagreements at a "unit level" and not with "the whole", as in I will disagree with a particular point that is being made, but that doesn't mean that I disagree with that person as a whole.
I think I make my points very clear in the threads.
I also feel like I'm open to change and open to being refuted. I actually welcome being proven wrong as it is an opportunity for me to ditch old/bad info and adopt new info. I gain nothing when my ideas are confirmed. I gain a LOT when they are disproven!
If I've been out of line in particular, please let me know where and when.
EDIT:
I learned of the concept of approaching debates as "Which idea is right?" not "Which person is right?". That switch alone defuses a lot.
Last edited by carleton; 08-27-18 at 03:44 PM.
#5100
Senior Member
personally I think conflict is inevitable with online forum. There will always be something lost in translation that ends up with someone "taking it" in a different context than it was written. There are also just **** starters, people who get too quick to defend, take offense to slights (either real or imagined) etc. It's the nature of the beast. Generally when you get two or more strongly opinionated people who disagree, there is the kindling for a hot exchange.
Also, while I understand there are very good reasons to have anonymity on the internet, I found that once I started using a more personal handle I did a bit more thinking before I posted. For the same reason I believe most Facebook groups are more civil than their corresponding forums... you know exactly who you are having an exchange with, not just xxCoOlGuY6969xx.
Also, while I understand there are very good reasons to have anonymity on the internet, I found that once I started using a more personal handle I did a bit more thinking before I posted. For the same reason I believe most Facebook groups are more civil than their corresponding forums... you know exactly who you are having an exchange with, not just xxCoOlGuY6969xx.