GBK233

Time to bleed the Shimano hydraulic brakes on my Giant Defy…as my levers have a bit more travel than I’d like.

Bike has only about 500 miles on it, so doubtful I’ll need to completely flush the system. Probably just going to have to fill the brake bleed cup….and flick the levers repeatedly to expel air bubbles. Tons of cheap brake bleed kits on Amazon…so need some advice of what kits are good and what ones to avoid.

Do I need Shimano branded mineral oil or can I simply use the Magura mineral oil I use for the hydraulic clutch on my motorcycle?

WhyFi

Before you even go that far, I'd just orient the bike so that the lines are running uphill, from the caliper to levers, and without any "traps," give it some vigorous lever flicks and maybe some tapping on any exposed areas of the brake line.

Bubbles in the reservoirs aren't a problem, it's just a problem when the bubbles get between the master cylinder and the calipers, so if you can coax those bubbles up, you should be fine. IOW, unless something is very wrong, there shouldn't be significantly more air in the system than was there when you bought it 500 miles ago - it's just that the air is in a problematic area, now.

GBK233

I bought the bike “used”. Had 400 or so miles on it when I bought it and have put over 100 miles on it myself.

No idea what a hydraulic brake lever is supposed to feel like on a bike, but on a motorcycle the brakes engage after about 1/4” of travel.
Haven’t measured but seems as tho I’m getting at least 1/2” or more of travel before I feel the pads engage the rotor. The bike seemingly stops well, but I’m just not used amount of travel before feeling that the brakes are engaging.
Don’t know if maybe pads are set too far away from the rotor….or there is air in the system….or maybe this is just normal for hydraulic bike brakes.

MoAlpha

Air in the lines produces a mushy feel, rather than increased dead travel and then a good bite.

GBK233

no mush…just a lot of dead travel

MoAlpha

I sometimes feel as though my hydro brakes (105 and Ultegra) have too much travel too. There's a screw to adjust the lever position, but I don't think it does anything about the travel. WhyFi would know. Fat new pads definitely help.

genejockey 

My understanding is that DA and Ultegra allow adjustment of brake lever free stroke, but 105 does not. I have the same issue on my Canyon, that over the 1500 miles I've ridden it, the free stroke has increased, especially at the front. I THINK what's happening is that as the pads wear the return springs are still pushing the pistons back to the same place, so the free stroke increases. It's a little disconcerting when I switch from my rim-brake bikes, because I like to keep the pads close to the rim so I get bite with just a little lever travel.

I know people will tell you that disk brakes are supposed to be self adjusting, but I think that's if there's no return spring, like in cars. I should take pictures of the gap when I change pads and then look at it a couple hundred miles later.

WhyFi

There is going to be a bit of travel before the initial bite; if the lever is firm upon contact and if the wing of your small shift lever isn't overlapping the drops of your bars, I wouldn't worry about it.

And yes, hydro will automatically adjust the gap between the pads and rotors. And no, no way to adjust free stroke on 105.

WhyFi

Unless the pistons are sticking, the gap should stay consistent throughout the range of pad wear. If you're seeing more lever travel than before, and if the lever isn't really firm, I'd suspect a little bit of air in the lines. Is this one of the stable that gets hung on the wall pretty regularly? Hanging it with the bars down or, heaven forbid, both wheels up, could certainly encourage reservoir bubbles to work in to the lines.

genejockey 

No, the Canyon is the one bike I don't hang up.

No lack of firmness of the lever, no squishiness. Professionally bled a few months ago. Just progressively greater free stroke over time, more obvious with the front than the rear, correlating with wear on the pads.

MoAlpha

I get that too and it goes away with new pads. Minor thing, but definitely noticeable.

WhyFi

Hmm, weird. The rear pads on my Cervelo are nearing their min thickness, as is the rotor - the travel is no greater than when they were new. Lever travel on the Haanjo (RS505s) has been the same for 5 years over multiple sets of pads.

vascof1

Sorry for the late reply on this thread.

I have a Canyon Endurace with r7020 (105) discs as well and they have long lever travel as well. I only have about 500kms on mine.

Did you end up bleeding yours? If so, did it help with the travel?

Im planning to do mine and see if it makes a difference.

Mojo31

My 105 hydros have about a half inch of free travel. When I bought the bike, the shop mechanic told me that's normal. It's not changed in almost two years.

vascof1

Thank you. I think i have quite a bit more than that.

Mojo31

I have not measured.

gpburdell

Not sure if this will help since it says free-stroke not adjustable for ST-R7020/R7025, but the reach adjustment is on page 54:
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RADBR01-03-ENG.pdf

genejockey 

I tried it. It doesn't.

The long free stroke on my 105/R7020 levers is mostly obvious right after switching from my rim brake bikes, where I like to keep the pads pretty close to the rims. Once I've ridden a while, I get used to it.

vascof1

Thanks for the link. It's not the reach I'm looking to adjust it's the free stroke. I know Ultegra and DuraAce have free stroke adjustments though.

Mojo31

Measured the free stroke on my bike: 3/4".

genejockey 

Measured where?

Rusty Peters

I would just do the bleed. I had a very similar situation with mine. After several thousand miles, the front brake lever throw was significantly longer than the rear. Nice firm lever but just a lot more pull than the rear.

Nothing noteworthy happened that would introduce air into the system. No upside down storage, crashes, etc. I reset the pistons, tried replacing the pads and did everything in disbelieve that air magically appeared in the system. I bled the front brake and the travel is way shorter and now matches the rear.

Bite the bullet...bleed it.

RiceAWay

Couple of points. Excess lever pull is usually due to worn brake pads and not air in the system,. I would use Shimano mineral oil rather than some unknown. It isn't as if these stuff is expensive. Shimano hydraulic systems are REALLY easy to bleed and there are several YouTube videos that show everything.

Mojo31

Well, that’s a good question. Measured from the point of the inner shift lever to the bar. Put the end of that tape on the point, and then squeezed the lever with nominal power until the pads and rotor engaged.

Ryan_M

IMO if you have hydro brakes it makes sense to have a bleed kit. I'd give them a bleed. Popular opinion is it's not air in the system but at least then you'll know for sure. Absolutely only use Shimano fluid. No guarantee all mineral oils are created equal and you don't want some unknown oil attacking the seals. I'd also opt for the Shimano bleed kit. When I bought mine they were a bit more expensive than the generic kits, maybe that's changed now? Bleeding brakes is simple and easy if the kit works as expected, but can quickly turn into a mess and some frustration if it doesn't.