pumabicycle

I'm converting my vintage road bike to a modern groupset and wheels. I already have a set of Campagnolo Veloce brakes. I want the best performance I can get in regards to stopping power, drop bolts or long reach brakes will perform best?

Me making a custom drop bolt is within my skill level. I'm just unsure of the physics of either type of brake.

Thanks,

-P

dabac

For the same set of levers, long reach brakes have - by definition - poorer leverage than regular reach brakes. Less rim pinch for an equal amount of hand effort.

Now, whether this is enough to be important or not is another question, but the mechanics are clear.
The existence of long reach brakes and the absence of warnings and horror stories would suggest that it's not a critical difference.

However, if you can swing it, a drop bolt and regular reach brakes would have a principal advantage over long reach brakes.

jyl

Post #63 in this thread has pictures of the drop brackets I made to adapt Veloce brakes to a 1974 Raleigh. They work fine, are very solid. Basically 1/4" thick aluminum bar stock, bent into a "U" shape, bolted to the fork and brake bridge, and the brakes mounted to that. There is a bit of aluminum spacer used in the rear bracket as well. Got the materials at a hardware store, bent using a bench vise.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...n-sport-3.html

Andrew R Stewart 

Back in the day we made drop holes, much like jyl's drop bracket except for long center bolts with traditional nuts and using two plates (with two holes drilled in each) and a cross tube.

But no one has mentioned the tire profile intended of if fenders will be part of the set up. If a large tire (say 32 or 35mm wide) and/or fenders are wanted then the short reach caliper might not have enough clearance and a longer reach caliper might be needed. But as dabac says a short reach caliper will, all things equal, have greater leverage and stiffer caliper arms. Andy.

hueyhoolihan

i assume you've tried the new brakes on the bike with the new wheels. how did it go?

bikemig 

No. 1. Plus long reach brakes give you plenty of stopping power.

fietsbob

the manufactured drop bolts were from back in the single pivot era, they also had a groove to relocate the return spring lower too ..


IDK how long a reach you Need ?


'back in the day' [middle of the slot] there was a 52 and a 47 reach version from Campag.

coupster

The wizards of fit have also come up with this option.

pumabicycle

My frame is an 80's steel drilled for 27 1/4 wheels. I'm in the process of reworking to modern groupset and wheels. I put a 700c wheel on the front to measure what I'd need and it looks to be about four millimeters. I've read that brakes are more effective the further up in the slots they are but have no idea if this is valid. I considered drilling another hole lower in my fork but there isn't enough room for that to work as it doesn't go down the full four millimeters. Drilling the fork and filing brake pad slot doesn't appear to offer enough reach either.

I currently have an old Diacompe center pull brake on the bike (front only) and was at a bike shop looking around at new brake options (before I bought a whole new group set) and the bike shop employee got interested in trying to sell me his personal wheels. He mounted them up and encouraged me to take them around the block. Off I went in full speed glory. I approached an intersection, tapped my front brake to slow for a car and nothing happened. I avoided crashing into the car by turning very hard. Needless to say I didn't buy the wheels but it got me thinking about real stopping power.

I'm going to build two sets of wheels for this bike; a go fast set (which I'm building now) and a touring set. The go fast set are Mavic Reflex mounted with Veloflex Extreme 22mm tires, no fenders so I'll be able to get very close with the brakes. While it would be very convenient to have one set of brakes that perhaps slid up and down to accommodate larger tires I doubt that will work so If I have to get another set of brakes for the touring set then so be it. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Right now I just want speed and excellent stopping power.

I'd love to see many examples of drop brake solutions. The one above in post 63 looks good.

Thanks for the responses,

-P

Tim_Iowa

Perhaps the front brakes were insufficient in the above example because the rim you tried was thinner than the original, meaning the brake pads barely made contact if at all. The same thing would happen with any brakes if you change rim width without adjusting the caliper.

Personally, I prefer long reach brakes to drop bolts; drop bolts always look like a kludge to me. Plus, long reach brakes = fender and tire clearance.

Tektro 539's are perfect for most 27" to 700c conversions; I used them recently on an 80s Raleigh.
Tektro 559's are even longer, in case the 27" bike had lots of clearance to begin with. Both are modern dual pivot brakes with plenty of stopping power. I use 559's on a 650b conversion, and they stop my big self just fine.

hueyhoolihan

IMO, drop bolts are a last ditch effort to utilize a 27" fork with a 700c wheel. the drop bolt is much more likely to flex than the dual arms of a longer reach caliper brake.

fietsbob

This a 27" to 700c conversion?


Ah. simplicity just move the pads down, by moving the bolt in the holder up. , it is further from the pivot axis ,
so a bit lower MA

pumabicycle

Yes, a 27 to 700c conversion.

Are you saying the "Wizards of fit" option is not effective?

jyl

A drop bracket, properly made, won't flex. Especially at the front because it can be bolted very solidly to the fork crown. The rear is trickier because the brake bridge is just a thin tube, but rear braking forces are lower anyway.

fietsbob

its not Schwartz und Weiss , just the math of the mechanics of a simple lever .
Lever - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

coupster

More information. The parts are branded AICAN and AFAIK are only available through EBay from Taiwan. I've had good luck with the vendor. Takes awhile though. Buy it and forget about it, be surprised when you find an international package in your mail.
[h=1][/h]

cantom

Are those factory made drop bolts? If so, where to buy?

thook

here's one place.....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Litepro-MTB...-/313122091522

cantom

Thank you sir!

Is there a thread or two where these are discussed, other than this one?

How good a solution are they?

Dan Burkhart 

Here is another option from Bdop. https://bdopcycling.com/product/bdop...ers-set-black/
I recently did a build with them, and they worked out great. Have placed a few orders with Bdop, and delivery is always within a week, Taiwan to Canada.

ClydeClydeson

I did not think this is accurate. I thought long reach brakes have longer actuating arms as well as longer braking arms. It certainly makes a difference if adjusting pads from high in the slot to low in the slot on an y particular set of calipers, for instance when changing from 27" to 700c wheels, but the range of 'acceptable' mechanical advantage for brake actuation is fairly narrow, so long reach brakes would not provide acceptable braking if they were just short reach brakes with the pads mounted twice as far away. I could be wrong.

blamester

To be honest if it was me i would try both if i could and see which is best. You want the best compromise for you.
​​​​They might both be fine with proper adjustment or one is better for one reason or another.
A properly engineered drop bolt shouldl be at least as stiff as long reach brakes.

thook

if you currently have a set of brakes that you are attached to using/keeping, then probably so. i've never used them, but they get good user reviews. if you're not attached to your brakes, then get long reach. they look better than adapters and keep things a bit simpler. just my opinion on that, though

Miele Man

One think to watch out for with a drop-bolt is make sure the drop-bolt doesn't rub on the tire or sit too close to the tire.

Cheers

dabac

I’m quite confident it is.
That wouldn’t work very well as a standalone fix.
if the length of the brake arm above the pivot was changed, then the amount of cable pull would also change. You’d soon run into the same issue as when pairing V-brakes with Canti levers - ie having to run the pads really close to avoid having the levers bottom out before achieving good braking.
And since you don’t see brake levers sold as ”for short reach only”, or ”for long reach brakes”, it seems like a probable conclusion that the arms above the pivot stays the same.

Also, with the - admittedly limited - inventory I have available, the brake arms above the pivot stay the same, and only the part below the pivot change.
As long as the levers don’t bottom out, the mechanical advantage isn’t that critical for basic function. Keep in mind that we managed riding both in the rain and the dry, despite the HUGE difference in available friction.
Anyone who have managed that shouldn’t worry too much about about little extra leverage: