Gibsonsean

No need to bring religion into this!

There was no 'evidence' of the items ordered - would you expect them to include order slips? There was a photo of three people with what I assume is a CNC machine

Gibsonsean

What do you see as the main drivers for a 4 month slip at this stage?

maxxevv

Your understanding of the word is severely limited I have to say. Google is a few clicks away in case you forgot.
https://www.google.com.sg/webhp?sour...F-8#q=heresy&*

Yes, if there's to be evidence, a receipt of purchase or purchasing order and the most important a Delivery Order of the so called equipment that has been ordered. Any of that ? Nope. Zilch.

A CNC machine ( which you assume to be, and may not actually be ) is only useful if it has been set up. With 3 phase power supply, water cooling facilities, industrial aircompressors to supply air for its operations. And equally importantly, the computers and the software to do all the machining coding. That's just the machine.
There's the jigs, fixtures and tools. The machining bits, cutters, measurement tools and devices.

Good grief ... have you ever been into a proper CNC machine shop for that matter ??

Was there any evidence of the rest of the requisite equipment?

Oh yes... where's all that Titanium that bikes were supposed to be build from ? You can't drop by your friendly neighbourhood materials store to buy titanium tubes you know ?

How long does it take to set up the equipment ? In some places it takes 2 weeks to get the 3 phase power supply into the factory floor. In really bad places, it takes 3 months.

And try ordering Titanium tubes in bulk and on the cheap from almost definitely China, see how long that takes ...

I don't see any evidence of any of the things I listed above. And that's not counting the so called " robotic welding" yet .... which again, there's no evidence any of that exists to date.

Gibsonsean

Easy tiger.

Thank you. I am familiar with Google and with the definitions of both 'hearsay' and 'heresy'. I am not aware of any established, generally accepted position that was opposed by the update, to take the latter's widest meaning.


This wasn't a court submission. I certainly wouldn't expect a manufacturer to share the level of 'evidence' you describe in a progress update.

The Feb update claimed CNC machine was connected to power supply and commissioning and training was to commence that week. The first batch of titanium tubes and bar was due in around 4 weeks by air freight.

See above re welding chamber and my underpinning assumptions on the honesty of the update.

Since you seem not to have seen the updates where does your 'September at the earliest' estimate come from?

jur

We have seen no real evidence that this project is folding, or a scam, or anything in that direction. What we have seen again and again, is the inventor's expectation that certain items will be delivered by certain dates, after which they can start building. And again and again, those expectations have been dashed. What he has unfortunately not done, is to close off on previous delivery expectations after much more time than expected has expired. So, the container with wheels either is delivered and he keeps it under his hat, or it is missing. And there is a long list like that. No continuity, no closing off. At any update which are spaced at 6 or more weeks apart, one can expect new stuff, but no mention of old stuff. This has been extremely frustrating because we never know where we stand in the project.

wesgreen

Seems logical to me that if he had any evidence to show he was making progress, he would be very eager to share it, to attract buyers/investors. The conclusion is obvious.

Joe Remi

Yes. Yes it is.

ThorUSA

makin a couple phone pics of all the material, like hubs, and tubing, wheels, machines, frame rigs etc etc would take no more than 5 minutes, posting them to the people who trusted him with thousands of dollars would take another 10 minutes at best ....


I am praying for the backers who invested heavily that they get something out of this, but than I am also praying for world peace


thor

wesgreen

I guess they probably helped push bike design development forward, regardless of what happens now.

Abu Mahendra

I am sure that thought will provide some inner peace and tranquility to those who ponied up their money.

jur

A quick update yesterday: some pics show the inert welding chamber in a state before/during assembly. A month or more to its delivery. No other news.

maxxevv

Post them here then.

maxxevv

The opportune word is "claimed".

The above is from the internet, not from Helix.

From the sheer lack of evidence of progress and my understanding of what it takes to get a titanium bicycle with custom parts out of the factory floor.

In any case, you have not demonstrated why people should be keeping faith with the project.

maxxevv

Exactly !

jur

Unfortunately I won't post the pics, they are backer only details.

There has been a big update on KS. Progress report plus 3D design details of mudguards and racks, both folding with the bike Birdy - style.

Whatever you think of the project management, the design is worth bucketloads. This is no scam. Just the comms is beyond a joke. The latest update again did not refer to any items previously indicated to be delivered, leaving them in limbo. Just the chamber.

Joe Remi

"Backers only" is not a legal document. There's no reason why people who've been following this thread for a year should not see some pictorial​ evidence of The Phantom Helix.

shrooms

Jur is way too nice. I would punch that piece of %$^& creator right in his dirty mouth.

jur

I posted pics of the new V2 Helix in post #153. Differences to the version campaigned for in KS are subtle but important, such as the locking mechs which were redesigned from scratch.

bhkyte

I was really tempted to do an April fool this morning saying I have received a pre production prototype example after asking nicely. Pictures to follow.
I thought better of it , as people have money tied up in it.
But if I have permission in advance can I do this next year?

Just kidding.

I like many want this to succeed and push folder design onwards.
The idea of seeing a compact ti disc 24 inch folder stepping off a train in london is going to change the notion of what a compact folder can be.

Hopefully ,this sight would get deginers to stop being overly conservative and we can start to get compact folders that perform like real bikes that also fold, rather than saying well it just a folder, you cant expect much , and yes it is expensive.

Lets hope this design can shake things up a bit.

berlinonaut

I'd say it is totally legitimate to give information about developments exclusively to backers of a kickstarter-campaign and to expect them to keep it private. They are involved with their money (and have proven their strong support for and interest in the product by pledging) whereas you have no relationship to the company aside of curiosity and obviously a deep desire for blaming the inventor. What relevance does this information have for you? If you are that curious you could and should have backed the campaign - then you'd be informed as well... If any information given internally to the backers would be published on the internet immediately the consequence would be not to give internal raw information that is not for the public to the backers. This would be a step in the wrong direction I suppose.

If you think this is wrong you should maybe start publishing secret and internal information from your employer on the internet. Maybe someone would be interested in that and - according to your argumentation - there is no reason why this information should not be published... And you could request any manufacturer of any product to publish the internal information from their R+D-departments as you need to know what they are working on.

Joe Remi

I'll bet you're fun at parties, legal boy.

ThorUSA

it is relevant to post the updates ( or lack thereof ) here
posters are asking if they should send 50 % down in the second (?) attempt to raise even more money.
People waiting for years on a folding bike, instead of buying something now and enjoying the fold now.
lack of communication with that kind of money is not excusable. one could hire a part time employee who sends out updates, and work on social media .... that would cost 1/2 % of the money he collected !

thor

berlinonaut

The answer is obvious: The Helix doesn't exist yet and nobody knows if it ever will and when this will be. If you order now AFAIK you do not safe money compared to the retail price. So why should you order now in comparison to waiting until the bike has seen the light of day and you are maybe even able to test ist or to at least read what others say about their experience with it? The latter seems like a more clever approach to me as you won't be the first in the line anyway as backers delivery comes first.


This refers to the current backers, not to the general public. Yes, absolutely, the backers should be informed far better than they currently are and it would be easy for the creator of the Helix to change that. Fully agreed. But if any information that the backers get is published immediately in a public forum a creator would probably be more reluctant giving information to his backers. To me this seems understandable as (as a creator) you would not want internal information to become public. I do not see which foundation this claim of Joe Remi should have - I can see exactly none and also for him (in opposite to the backers) no reason to complain and think his claim is even counterproductive (though I understand the curiosity).

Joe Remi

My "counterproductive" claim is that this moron is trying to get more money for a project that hasn't yielded a single bicycle yet, and I think that's kind of offensive. And since this is an opinion forum, you're going to have to put up with my opinion. Toughen up.

Ozonation

Yes.