ussprinceton

cyclezen

nope, not true

burnthesheep

Prove it.

qwaalodge

Yes. I bought a ZTTO brand instead. A bit shorter at 32mm. Cheap and ugly as hell. Looks like somebody's pee stub when the wife is yelling at them.

I'll probably have to try to hide it with handlebar accessory if I decide that I like it.

qwaalodge

I think I have a short torso (or proportionately long legs). I actually bought the bike because out of the size 50's it had the best toe clearance.

kcjc

The only bike I didn't have any toe overlap with was my 21" Trek 660. I would venture to say the taller you are and with the right geometry, it can be done.

qwaalodge

I've just installed and tested the 32mm +7 degree stem. Previous stem was 90mm -7 degrees stock. I took it for a short ride around the neighborhood which is built on a hill so I was able to test climbing and downhill.

First impressions:
-quite noticeably more comfortable. It literally took the load off my hands and shoulders and some off my back too. Might be the frame is correctly sized for me but the reach is too long. I may have a short torso. My arms are normal length however.
-steering is also quite more nimble in a good way. It took considerably less effort and lighter touch to make very tight precise low speed turns. A very good thing for in my rush hour city commutes.
-less stable in the flats and downhill while in the drops. Required a lighter touch. Easily manageable and something I can get used to after a week of riding. Didn't feel less stable in the hoods, in fact, in fact, it felt just right.
-stability improved in climbs even in low speed steep sections. It actually reduced climbing effort and made me faster on the same climb!!
-standing on the pedals and off the saddle to climb was a better experience too. the effort felt reduced and my knees did not bang the tops of the handlebar even on the hairpin turn climb.

There's far more good things about the super short stem that I have decided to keep it. I felt so nice on the bike for the first time and improved my performance as well. But I'd like to make myself clear I'm not recommending getting a very short stem as a solution if you feel stretched out on your bike. So many parameters involved and I only got lucky. The reduced stability in the flats and downhill is something to watch out for and it looks goofy enough to attract unwanted attention from your group mates.

Fredo76

I kept trying shorter and shorter stems on an unusual build, and finally turned the 32mm shortest one backwards. It's not twitchy due to a relaxed seat angle.

Congratulations on finding your solution. I'll bet it feels better than buying another frame, eh?

IMO, toe overlap is a design flaw caused by compromise in favor of something less important. Maybe a four-foot tall rider attempting the world hour record would have a good reason to ignore toe overlap. Otherwise, nobody can tell me that toe overlap is a plus; I simply won't believe it. Common, perhaps, but always a minus.

qwaalodge

Yes, I felt quite relieved I did not have to do a new build as I don't have time and money for that! Coincidentally, I have a very relaxed seat angle too. My ISM saddle have very long rails and I set it all the way to the back. I initially set it forward thinking I'd make more power but felt the weight on my arms.

I think the toe overlap was due to the race-oriented design of the road bike. But the vast majority of road bike riders don't race so it's more of an inconvenience and a hazard than a useful feature!

Camilo

I don't think I've ever had a road bike that didn't have toe overlap. 54/medium-ish frames size 9US shoe, so nothing unusual. I'm talking at least 6 or 7 frames in that size over the years, full-on racy to endurance and gravel frames.

It's just not a problem, ever, you adjust.... or maybe it's that it's the only way I've ridden? Sort of like not having the inside pedal down when turning sharp at speed?

Because of that, it always surprises me that people consider toe overlap at all.

qwaalodge

I went for a 1.5 hour ride with it reaching my usual speeds and all. Comfort is still amazing with the reach corrected by short stem for relaxed seat angle. My hands did not get numb at all. The pressure on my arms and shoulders is so light I feel like I could ride all day long.

Stability doesn't feel compromise anymore. I seemed to have quickly adapted to it it just one day. It could be subjective but I even tried 40 mph winding descents. It felt just as stable as before or even better because now I have greatly reduced load on the arms so I can have light touch on the handlebar. Overall, it felt like an improvement because it made steering much easier, precise, and ironically, more stable when I'm zigzagging across stopped cars in rush hour traffic.

A probably important subject to many is aerodynamics. I was looking at myself on how I looked with the new setup via reflection on the sliding glass door. I'm not any higher. My back simply arched more which is more comfortable for me than a straight back. I kept the same stack going from 90mm -7 stem to 32mm +7 stem. Flat cruise speeds remained the same but I noticed less effort. It may have actually improved aerodynamics or the new more arched back position, better comfort, reduced effort level to maintain the same cruise speed.

So much for the GCN segment on stem lengths concerning stability. They probably did not even give it a day to get used to it or their setup placed too much pressure on the hands to have light touch on the handlebar.