rccardr 

An interesting and inventive build! Love the way you used what you had/had access to and wound up with a nicely integrated whole.
It’s so sad that the thick chainstays of that period result in so little clearance for 700c tires much larger than an actual 30mm when mounted. 700 X 38’s would be an awesome combination on that frame!
I run 650 X 38’s on the Pelizzoli- as large as will fit- and they are nice and cushy, so am not surprised that you have a great ride on the ST.

Only concern is the combination of DA 7400 (?) brake levers with the Tektro 559’s. My experience with braking power using that combination was disappointing. Either an SLR Shimano lever or one of Tektro’s own levers work much, much better, especially on long fast downhills.

jdawginsc 

Shimano 105 SLR (circa 1987-88) are the best levers I have ever used for various brake sets. They even make crappy sets more responsive...

thumpism 

Autocorrect...or autocommentary?

Pcampeau

This does not look like it will be the slowest Cannondale.

jdawginsc 

That is reserved for me when I am riding my Cannondale...

ehcoplex 

I can just squeeze 38s (700c) on my ‘97 T900 (though actually the Rene Herse Barlow Pass measure about 40mm inflated to 45psi…), but the wheel has to be perfectly true and in the drop-outs just right. Maybe 2mm clearance on each side at the chain stays. Takes a little bit of wiggling to get the wheel in past the chainstay bridge/fender bolt. Felt a bit like this was cutting it just too close, like a twig or something could get wedged (though I really had no problems for 1500 miles of mixed surface riding), so I switched to 35s (the 38s are going on an old Peugeot Appalaches I’m rehabbing to try to get my partner into cycling). 3mm doesn’t sound like much, but I definitely notice it and miss the 38s- they are just damn comfortable (the bike had 28c tires on it when I got it last spring and was pretty brutal on the crappy roads where I live- 38s were transformational)! When I wear out the 35s I think I’ll go back to the 38s, tight clearance be damned. I wonder if narrower rims might narrow the width of the tires by a mm or two....
It's interesting that in the '97 Cannondale catalog the T900 is spec'd as coming with 38c tires with the clearance being so tight... Comparing the geometries of '90 to '97 it seems the latter is just a little bit more 'tour' and less 'sport' (slightly shallower head-tube, slightly longer wheelbase...), though my T900 feels plenty 'sport' to me.

noglider 

You could try even lower tire pressure. You might be pleased.

ehcoplex 

I have! I vary it depending on the route/surfaces I'm going to be on. The 38s at 35psi on gravel/rough pavement was really nice. I haven't been able to do a whole lot of riding since I put the 35s on (and what I have done has been pavement/chip-seal)- I think I've got them at 40 right now. From what I've been able to glean from the Rene Herse site that seems to be about as low as I ought to go with a 35c....

steine13

Learned Friends:

I try to deliver. When I say 'Slow Thread', you won't have to worry about rapid-fire updates. But I try to pay attention. So:

rccardr
>> It’s so sad that the thick chainstays of that period result in so little clearance[..]

Agreed. But it's still better than my R200, which fits "28s" that measure to 26. Ride over a dime and you can tell if it's head or tails.

>> Only concern is the combination of DA 7400 (?) brake levers with the Tektro 559’s. My experience with braking power using that combination was disappointing.

I'm a big fan of Shimano's aero levers: https://www.treefortbikes.com/Shiman...rake-Lever-Set
and have them on two of my bikes... three, as I found out this summer, because I just realized the levers I put on my T400 14 years ago are the same. I drilled and tapped those to accept a mirrycle, and that setup still works.


thumpism asked
>> [me:] It was minus 2 degrees socialist this morning at seven.
>> Autocorrect...or autocommentary?

It's what a friend of mine calls it.. he's poking fun at those who turn everything political and I find it funny so I use it occasionally.

ehcoplex wrote
>> It's interesting that in the '97 Cannondale catalog the T900 is spec'd as coming with 38c tires with the clearance being so tight..

My all time favorite, bought-it-new, keep-it-forever bike is a T400 from 1995. By 93, they'd made them less sport and more touring. I run 38 mm Schwalbes with fenders. As far as I'm concerned, those are "peak Cannondale." The chain stays are dimpled to make the wider tires fit. And wouldn't you know it, those come up for sale about 1/10 as often als the earlier bikes.

cheers -mathias

steine13

Slow thread or no, I need advice. I have the perfect rear rack for my build, but it doesn't quite reach. I had a similar situation on my wife's T400, and bent the stays into submission, and it worked fine.. not that they've been stressed much since:

[1996 T400 w/ no-name rack from the cheap bin at the campus bike store]

I took the rack for the ST600 off the 84 Trek 620 I picked up recently. It's a Jim Blackburn, and the stays are a solid 8 mm... do I carefully bend these to as large a radius as I can?
I also have a Vetta (Blackburn knock-off) from the co-op that has bolt-on steel stays that would be easier to bend... but I'm thinking I'll go for it.
What do you-all think? Anybody do this? Anyone have a failure?
It's not the "investment" I'm worried about, but I'd rather not break an old, good-quality rack.

cheers -mathias

steine13

...aand finally, another question, not really part of this build, but related.

I picked up another T400 recently with the intention to refurbish it as a Christmas present for our daughter who is 22 and has been riding her Trek Lexa regularly now she's finished with school. Clearly she also needs a Cannondale tourer, like mama and papa have.

I was happy to find this an hour's drive away and paid handsomely for it despite evidence of outside storage and wonky wheels. As it turned out, the wheels trued up nicely, and the frame is in good shape overall. Light, too:


The fork, however, is 1002 g on its own...

But. When I removed the cranks, I found the chain stay pretty banged up. I can't really tell whether this is an annoyance or a serious concern. Here I'm hoping for advice from @rccardr, who's apparently refurbished a quarter of the Cannondales in the country, so he might have an opinion.

It's not like I'm considering junking the frame... he question is really how much to worry, which is kind of academic, and whether it's a good idea to sand out the gouges. On that I have no idea. My instinct is to leave bad enough alone.

But really, how cool is it to have three T400s in the family? This one is from 1994 per the imprint on the fork; mine was special-ordered in the spring of 1995, and my wife's was bought off the rack in 1996 as last year's model. These last two are bright red, and only the 1996 catalog will admit to a "T400" and those are all supposed to be black. It appears to have been a bit of a free-for-all at Cannondale in the mid-90s.

Photos submitted for your perusal.
cheers -mathias

thumpism 

Pneumatic persuasion, but the High setting was required. Wouldn't budge on Low or Medium.

steine13

Wow. Congratulations!
Goes to show that you can get more done with a kind word and a 2x4 than a kind word alone.

I note that the Phil tool did not deform.

With new bearings, can you reuse the bottom bracket? That would be cool.

cheers -mathias

PugRider

On the rack question, I have bent Blackburns to fit, no problem. Just go slow, be gentle, and keep test fitting--you don't want to be going back and forth.

On the bottom bracket/chain stay gouging question, unless it's not coming through in the photos it doesn't look too bad. Maybe file it smooth and ride on. I have not thought twice about riding bikes with chain stays that were much more banged up.

thumpism 

It's actually pretty smooth as is. I would not hesitate to try it in the bike once the frame is again ready for parts.

ehcoplex 

I'm with you. When I got back into 'serious' cycling last spring after a couple decades of nothing more than utility-biking I sought out (and found) a vintage Cannondale T900. In '89-'90 I was looking for a bike for an extended tour in Europe. I tried out quite a few top-of-the-line touring bikes at various bike shops- in as much as riding around the block, unloaded, can be considered 'trying out'. Nothing really felt right until a guy at a shop said, 'hey, why don't you try out this Cannondale ST600- we're marking it down to move it for the next year's models....' It was actually a fair bit cheaper than the fancy, steel-framed bikes I'd been looking at, but it felt good immediately. Man, I loved that bike! Alas, it got stolen in France, I ended up moving to NYC and my days of 'serious' cycling ended for a couple decades. But I always wanted another Cannondale touring bike...
Initially I was afraid maybe I'd made a mistake- the roads where I live are pretty awful and the ride was HARSH (it had crappy, 28c tires on it.....). 38c Rene Herse Barlow Pass (shoe-horned in, with fenders, too) were transformational, and I really love this bike. The 23" frame is a bit small for me, but 25" would be a little bit big, and I'm doing a fair bit of riding on gravel, seasonal farm/logging/state land 'roads' so a smaller frame is probably safer to be on.
Looking forward to seeing the end result of you build, however long it takes!

steine13

A tiny bit of progress -- and a question.

The Velomine 650b wheels were quite useful as a test for several of my bikes. Case in point: No help for the '97 R200 -- the chainstay dimples are in the wrong place, so that one will stay 700c.

My wife's ancient Bianchi wore them quite gracefully, so I built a 3spd IGH wheel in that size for her to use in town.

But what to do about the ST600? The 130 mm 8/9/10 speed hub has too much dish for my taste, so I decided to unlace it and install the NOS Shimano 600 hub I got from the co-op. Same flange dimensions, which is nice. Now a question for the cognoscenti: Since it's never been installed and the grease is still nice and soft -- should I disassemble and regrease? Or can I just use it as is? With my luck, I'm afraid I'll bend the dust caps, so I'm inclined to leave it alone. On the other hand, if I should service the bearings, now's the time while everything is still apart. Thoughts?

cheers -mathias


These are weird nipples. DT 2.0 mm straight-gauge spokes.

rccardr 

Little confused here. Is the top hub the ‘NOS Shimano 600’ one? If so, you got some weird non-NOS stuff going on there axle-wise.
Am also curious as to why you were displeased with the dish on a 130 hub. These modern days, dishing for a 130 is as reliable as a wheel on 120.
Seriously. I’ve ridden 130 road hubs on really rough terrain like Cino and Eroica as well as gravel rides…no problem.

Oh, and as to your original question: I always service a new/used/unknown hub before riding it, whether laced to a rim or not.

steine13

>> Little confused here. Is the top hub the ‘NOS Shimano 600’ one? If so, you got some weird non-NOS stuff going on there axle-wise.

It looks goofy because I've taken the jam nut off to look into the bearings. Whatever it's called -- I mean the one that is in contact with the rear dropouts.

>> I always service a new/used/unknown hub before riding it, whether laced to a rim or not.

Ok then. I will do no less.

>> Am also curious as to why you were displeased with the dish on a 130 hub.

Mostly because I hate forcing the frame apart to insert the wheel. It takes quite a bit of yanking, though I don't think there's any potential for damage.
.
This was a 135 mm wheel and I swapped out a spacer for 130 and had to re-dish quite a bit. Didn't seem right.

And since I have the narrow hub already, I figured it'd be nifty to add a couple mm to split the difference at 128, use the 6/7 speed freehub, and come away with a stronger wheel. What good is doing this stuff if you don't overdo it?

cheers -mathias

steine13

Learned Friends:

After some serious overload at work, I finally got back to this build. I've decided to ditch the 650b idea for now -- that'll give me 38 mm tires with barely enough clearance, and I can get that, easy, from my touring bikes. Since my road bike only takes 26 mm tires, and I can get 32 mm GP5000s on this one, that's what it's going to be. It's a go-fast bike in any event, with quicker steering than the later tourers. I really like the way it rides now.

I'll have a couple questions further on down, but here's a picture from yesterday's 30-odd mile run to the countryside for farm-fresh eggs. Having a goal beats riding in circles.




I'm happy with the handlebar, it's my third Nitto 177 Noodle, this time in 44 cm, and it's a great fit. Since the Dura Ace levers from earlier didn't fit my hands, I went way back in the parts bin and put on the Campagnolo Triomphe levers off my 87 Moser. These feel really good, and they let me run the old Mirrycle from back then, my favorite mirror, but the hoods were slimy in places and I had to slice off some material with a razor blade to be able to ride them. With new hoods, I'd call it good and do a proper wrap on the bars... I'm afraid to peel them back and have them come apart completely.

The stem is cobbled together for testing; I have a 60 mm Nitto Technomic I ordered for this bike; it'll look a bit short but I think that will be perfect, based on yesterday's ride.

The brakes are still 559s.. I tried to put on Modolos from my wife's ancient Bianchi, but they don't have the reach. Boo. I've got some Weinmann centerpulls; if I get those to work right, I can mount a Jim Blackburn wraparound front rack, which would look great and help with these outings.

As it was, I needed the C17 saddle so I could use the bag for the egg cartons. That is not a bad saddle for commuting. For real riding, I will mount a new B17 I have kicking around. Accept no substitutes.

Finally, the 7sp SIS shifters off a 97 R200 work fine, but I'm going to put the Suntour bar-ends into service, add a front derailleur, and put the granny gear back on the Sugino crankset, which came, like the shifters, off the Trek 620 that is now with @thumpism.

Finally, I tried to mount a rear rack, but I can't get any of my metric bolts to fit; after maybe two turns the M5 screws bind, and anything smaller seems too small. Before I do something stupid: Did Cannondale spec imperial inserts for the eyelets?
Later 'dales had the threads cut into the aluminum, and I've never had any trouble.

[EDIT] Eww.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-size-can.html


And is there any hope to be able to buy replacement hoods? These are not long for this world, and while I can go to Shimano aero levers, which I have on my other bikes, this one would look better with the traditional style. Any suggestions? Is there any way to clean the "sticky" off old rubber hoods?

cheers -mathias

jdawginsc 

The original owner of the frame whose son I got it from would be very pleased. Apparently he loved that bike until he fell from it and could no longer ride if I remember correctly.

Try a magic eraser on the hoods, then Dawn. Baby powder can take away stickiness afterward.

What is the white blotch on the seat tube. Was that there?

Great build and great frame. I still have his wife’s cousin-bike with me. They were both well loved.

thumpism 

That 620 is still alive but languishing, relegated to a corner of the garage after I managed to get the color coat off. The primer coat and rust spots remain and will be dealt with once some household chores are knocked off the list. No bike rides have suffered due to this unit being out of commission; there are serviceable bikes in the fleet.


Congrats on your C'dale progress.

t2p

for your viewing pleasure - an early 90's 3.0 frame (SR400)

note the cobwebs

this Cannondale 'build' began in the mid 90's lol
.

jdawginsc 

I think you win the slowest Cannondale build award...

steine13

Go Green!
[Sparty. Michigan State U]


I'm overdue for an update. There was a bit of a setback when I set the 'dale up with Suntour bar-ends off the Trek 620 basketcase I bought last fall. Apparently these are popular, and now I know why -- the ratcheting action is really nice.

My problem was that I could not get them set up right; either they were so tight that it was hard to make small adjustments -- or it was loose enough to shift well in the high gears, but when I had to downshift at low speed, the derailleur would come back on its own. I've now put a 7speed Shimano bar-end in the place of the right shifter, and everything works like but-tah.

I reckon I'll take the Suntours apart and give it a careful cleaning, but I doubt it'll be help. Too bad, I love the way it looks and feels, but I do need it to work properly. Meanwhile, I'm not complaining about having clicky shifting again -- I think I'll move over the modern wheels and 9speed microshifts from my R200, which I'm otherwise not riding.

After work today, I'm going on an egg hunt -- there's a farm that has great eggs a ways off, and that makes it a 30-miler by the time I'm home. Nice and hot today.

I love the period correct panniers i scored from @scarlson. The stem is an abomination, but I'm messing around with the hardest Brooks I've ever had to beat into submission... so when that's settled, I'll decide what length Technomic to get and wrap the bar properly. I also scored new hoods for the old Campy brake levers. The bar is a 44 cm Noodle that feels great.

cheers -mathias