Harlan

Compatible with any saddle? If so, yo quiero.

spectastic

anyone done a power acceleration test that compares fancy tricked out aero light carbon bike with a traditional round tube road bike?

Harlan

Just under my calibrated ass. Training bike is round tube, round handlebar, non aero wheels with Parigi Roubaix tires, heavier too. Race bike is opposite. When added all together I notice a difference.

spectastic

that is totally subjective. need quantitative testing

island rider

Thin layer, but more than 2 inches. I'm gonna call HED.

Doge

But too hard to do. They test components and sub-systems, but the whole thing - calibrated ass seems as good as I've found.
FWIW junior has a tricked out Tarmac and Tricked out Venge. Both Dura-Ace, one Di2, one cables. Both 14# +/- a few oz. Tarmac has semi heavier stuff on it so guest mechanics don't wrench "my stuff". Wheels are interchangeable.
Venge is faster in any solo situation except maybe a hill. Both are setup pretty close. He prefers riding the Tarmac.

spectastic

So you've tried this? With fresh legs and no wind, it's not that hard to test. Repeated sprint intervals over the same course, same conditions. Just try to be consistent between the different runs by switching up bikes to try to offset any effects from fatigue. Do enough of these, you'll have enough data to get worked on. But this sort of stuff has more relevance to guys like me than you. I have to worry about my budget, and I don't want to pay for unnecessary marketing hype.

Doge

Not these these two bikes as it wasn't needed both have been ridden hundreds of times and raced many times. He uses the Venge for Merckx TTs - normally. Won on Venge, 4th on Tarmac but other conditions were different - as well as the goals.
I also have the Venge setup to be more AERO - you have seen the pictures, I assume.
But it is hard to test because the purpose cannot be duplicated solo. We know the Venge is faster solo up to 5% grade, so we don't spend too much time even questioning that. We do spend time tucking in cables, AERO bars etc. because it is more for solo efforts.
But in racing, he's not solo, but usually in a pack. If he attacks (a lot to do with gear restrictions) it will be on a grade/hill and the Tarmac is preferred. If he knew the crit guys would let him ride off the front, he's choose the Venge. But, they don't.

spectastic

digging the mirror

grwoolf

This report (link below) has a heavy bias, but still interesting. It doesn't answer the acceleration question, but they claim 19 watts saving between their edmonda road bike and the aero madone with a rider on it at ~40k. I'm sure it's an optimistic number, but it was enough to get me to shell out some bucks for a new madone frame after I test rode one. I've got about 2 weeks of riding on it. I won't speculate on the aero benefit (all new bikes are faster), but it's a great bike even if you ignore the aero factor. I've raced it a couple times and had it out on a couple fast group rides and it's just a fantastic riding bike.

https://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdn...epaper_min.pdf

beatlebee 

^that paper has an interesting bit at the end regarding drafting.

Doge

I have to study it more, but the Madone is beautiful. I really like they took the thing outside the wind tunnel and tried the real road.

Interesting statement:
"the drafting bike’s airspeed is around halfof the leading bike’s airspeed at low yaw angles. However, atmore typical yaw angles in the 5–15 degree range, the drafting"

The faster you go (racing) the lower the effective yaw angle. Basically racing - in the middle of the pack air resistance is low (duh).

Doge

Required race equipment on his road bike. He does look back, but uses all the time to see attacks coming and also for attacking. He can watch the body language behind him and choose when to go. I mean, not like it turns anyone into Superman, but for cars, rides and races it is useful. I've heard it isn't allowed - can't find a rule. But if refs don't like it, it pulls out of the bar end plug.

spectastic

but dude, is it even aero??

Doge

It's not on the Venge.
But it is insignificant.

abhirama

Donno if it's practical but I've had this idea for a while: a mirror that I can mount somewhere (on the top tube, close to the headtube perhaps?) that points to the front so that when I have my head down (to be more aero) I can still look at the road up ahead.

Doge

The image would be switched. I guess you could train your brain - but why? You'd have to make it more complex to get the image correct.

abhirama

To the why - simply to be able to ride with your head down for longer periods of time. I recently read an article or saw a video where it was said that the pros use wind noise as a guide to tune their positions. When I put my head down it's way way more silent.

spectastic

I saw one of those at the driveway thursday, in matte black. I would personally never dare to race on one of those, due to murphy's law. But I agree it's interesting to see the data. seeing that they used the same component/wheel setup on all their bikes in the wind tunnel, it's surprising to see the huge delta in grams of drag. general rule of thumb that I've found from slowtwitch is that 50g drag at 30 mph is roughly 5W difference. If you extrapolate that to a 400g delta at 30mph, that's roughly a 40W difference, which is significant... so in real world testing, this should manifest itself pretty clearly (I think)

Doge

Current helmets have TT times faster with head up. I can envision cone heads would be faster head down.

shovelhd

There is no rule that I am aware of, only that your bar end must be plugged. However as I have explained in the past, if a referee feels that it gives the rider an unfair advantage or is a safety issue, they can ask that it be removed.

I have a similar mirror on both of my bikes now, an Italian one that has a glass lens. It goes under the bar tape though so it's not removable. It's been a game changer for me with my vision issues. It makes road riding, especially in a pace line, much safer.

topflightpro

Old, pre-dimple Zipp.

mike868y

wahhh i think my bb is dead wahhh

gsteinb

1X road bikes? Glad we solved that problem.

TheKillerPenguin

Crunchy sounds + sideplay?