Motorrad

Hello,
today I got from flea market a (I think) Colnago Sport frame and fork from '70. Looks like it was repainted as the fork neck and under the paint dings there is red. The frame and fork dropouts are Campagnolo and the seat tube seems to be 27.2. Also it came with Shimano LB-100 "ALMI Lever" Shifters and 3ttt Competizione (Gimondi) handlebar (both from mid 1970's)
I looked on the net for Colnago Sport from 1970's and there are two things that do not match.
One, is the seat stays that are flat on my frame and on bikes I found is plug style. The other mismatch is the headtube decoration, on mine it has lateral triangles, on the bikes I found is has none.

What's your opinion, is this a real Colnago Sport or is a fake one ?

I can't post pictures as I don't have enough posts, I'll put here a link to my Google Photos:
photos.app.goo.gl/9JZ8iHmEad9zepxt9

oneclick 

https://www.cycling-obsession.com/ho...colnago-sport/

(yours does not look like the pics there...)

Drillium Dude 

Not a Colnago. Fork is not original to the frame, either - note the different stay/fork end transition treatments.

DD

krakhaus 

Definitely not a Colnago
Looks to me like maybe a Benotto. Still a good frame with the Campagnolo dropouts and 27.2 seat tube.

Nuovo Record

Don´t confuse Colnago and Colnago Sport.

krakhaus 

You're probably right about that. I don't know that I've ever seen a Colnago Sport.

Nuovo Record

The only Colnago Sport I remember seeing in person was a white ladies´ bicycle with a drop bar and 10 gears, equipped with components of the Gipiemme/Modolo level. It was not at the level of a Colnago racing bike, but still a beautiful machine. I believe they were made by a subcontractor (like Romani) and then labeled as "Colnago Sport".

The thread starter´s frame is labeled "Colnago". I believe if it was one, it would have holes or cutouts in the bottom bracket shell.

jdawginsc 

And usually had lower level drop-outs if I recall...I think some might have been made by a Velosport or something of the like...

The geometry was more sport-like if I remember it correctly as well.

jdawginsc 

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ago-sport.html

non-fixie 

Based on what I am seeing I'd say that was a 'blank' frame, produced by a larger manufacturer for someone else to brand. Italian or - perhaps more likely - Belgian. Is the BB threading Italian or BSC?

It is a very nice frame, and the fact that it might not have been brazed by Ernesto himself doesn't mean all that much, IMHO. Some excellent frame builders produced frames for others, like BMZ and Billato in Italy, and Martelly in Belgium.

CliffordK

Hmmm... I don't believe it is a Colnago Sport.

A couple of features seem to be common with the sports including a slotted bottom bracket and concave seat stay caps. (Yours don't have them), as well as you mentioned the triangle cutouts on the side of the head tube lugs are also not a Colnago feature.

The two-tone paint is supposed to make it look Colnago-ish, but is unlikely original with the frame.

On the positive, it looks like all 4 dropouts are Campagnolo which is a good sign.

Nuovo Record

A 27.2 mm seat tube could mean Columbus SL. What is the size of the frame (center-center), and what is the weight of frame and fork (separate)? Can you see a Columbus pigeon symbol engraved on the fork tube? Are the "Colnago" decals clear-coated over?

jdawginsc 

Can’t see the pics, but Campy DOs, 27.2 SP points to a better frame than a Colnago Sport.

As stated above, lots of possibles in the Italian frame building industry...who knows, maybe it’s a hidden gem!

Nuovo Record

Since you can´t see the pictures: the frame is labeled "Colnago", not "Colnago Sport". I believe we have a bit of a confusion here.

CliffordK

Photo Link:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9JZ8iHmEad9zepxt9

@Motorrad's Album:
https://www.bikeforums.net/g/user/503014
https://www.bikeforums.net/g/album/22068945

(select photos, more above).










I see some red overspray on the fork. Perhaps from an earlier paint job.

CliffordK

Not this bike, but the Sport is a unique model. There was also a Colnago Junior that also had some interesting features. Colnago did also make a few frames for other brands.

krakhaus 

If you look at the paint nicks on the frame, you'll see bits of red also. Perhaps an overspray, but possibly a red primer or base coat.

jdawginsc 

Ok. Thanks for the pics. I was thinking that we were determining if the frame was a C. Sport...definitely isn’t.

next guess will be Billato, maybe? Not sure about the stay caps though.

CliffordK

I haven't seen primer that vibrant of red. But, it does seem as if the paint showing through the paint chips is similar to the red on the fork. If the red on the frame and the fork match, then it would indicate the frame and fork would have been together for some time. Not necessarily original, but predating the current paint.

As I mentioned earlier, I believe the silver accents are not original. And, fake decals, fake two-tone paint, and covered up red, it is quite likely the whole bike was repainted.

This is from my Colnago.



Several things indicate that the frame was likely a late 60's frame that was factory repainted in the early 70's.

Mine clearly has 3 layers:
Bottom: Burgundy (likely primer).
Middle: White. Somebody suggested this may be added to improve color coverage. Or, perhaps the original late 1960's paint.
Top: Blue. Likely factory repaint from early 1970's.

Nuovo Record

I once had a Colnago Junior. It was labeled with the regular Colnago brand and appeared in the regular Colnago catalogue as one of their models. Columbus SL and Campagnolo Super Record. Is that the Colnago Junior you are referring to, or was there yet something else with that name?

Motorrad

In the beginning of the thread there was a misunderstood, some people thought we were talking about Colnago, but in fact we are talking about Colnago Sport, bikes built by Velosport under Colnago name.
In the link suggested by oneclick https://www.cycling-obsession.com/ho...colnago-sport/, if we look at the second bike (Features of a Colnago Sport (Circa 1970’s) - the white one) we can see that, except the headtube lugs, the bike is similar to mine, even the flat seat stays. That is the bike that steel-vintage say is a "Colnago Sport Super Vintage Bicycle from 1974". Here is the link: https://steel-vintage.com/colnago-sp...om-1974-detail. Also notice that the decals says Colnago, not Colnago Sport.

nuovorecord asked for the size of the frame. Seat tube 53, Top tube 54. Frame is around 2100 grams. Decals seems to not be clear coated. The fork has no markings.

Today I looked more on the frame and found that BB is english threaded
The lugs are Prugnat S4 lugs or Bocama Competition 78 lugs ( around 70s)
Two other components are from 70's:
- Campagnolo 1010A - Campagnolo - catalogue n. 17 - 1974, page 7: https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...17_page_7.html
- Campagnolo Braze-on cable guides 626B and 663 - Campagnolo - catalogue n. 17 - 1974, page 10: https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...7_page_10.html
Having the attached (not welded) top tube brake cable clip and the chainstay shift cable guide welded on the chainstay, not below, I think that the frame should be from early 70's

If is not a Colnago Sport, what else it could be ? SL tubing, Campanolo droputs and cable guides, Prugnat or Bocama lugs

Thank you all for your answers.

Drillium Dude 

Clarification of my post: I don't think it's a Colnago Sport, either, based upon the details in the photos provided.

What could it be? Search me. Not enough signature details to point to any particular builder/contractor, and the mis-matched fork doesn't aid in clearing up the mystery in the slightest.

DD

jdawginsc 

Could it possibly be a Plum or Superia? I seem to recall Superia having wrap over stay caps, and since it is English threaded, possibly?

Nuovo Record

If the decals are not clear-coated over, I believe you do have a resprayed frame. They seem to be of a later design than the frame anyway.

How wide is the frame? If it is 126 mm, I guess your frame might date from about 1977/78.

One of the links you supplied suggests that the main triangle of a Colnago Sport is from Columbus Aelle. If I am not mistaken (I might be!), that has a 26.6 mm seat tube diameter. I also doubt that such a frame would have Campagnolo frame ends.

I believe 2,100 grams sounds a bit heavy for a Columbus SL frame. There was also Reynolds 531 with 27.2 mm. This might also have been paired with Campagnolo frame ends. I have such a frame.

A "real" Colnago (or an Italian frame in general) would most likely have a different bottom bracket shell.

Does the fork have an English thread, too?

I see the chances that this is a Colnago or a Colnago Sport as slim. Perhaps it is not even Italian. I think your frame might be from the UK, from France, Belgium, The Netherlands or Germany.

The original name of the frame might still be under that blue paint.

And under all the layers of paint and primer you might find a Columbus symbol or a Reynolds stroke engraved...

jdawginsc 

That was my original thought, though the lug treatment screams Italianesque...while the stay caps seem northern Europe...no BB cutouts though. And the front drops/rear stays don't really match up as Drillium Dude indicated, but seems possibly Belgian (of course I am not exactly an expert).

Motorrad you might get more of a clue to materials by really looking at the seat tube at the BB and the steerer tube.

Any serial numbers?