3 week old Domane sl4 has bad shuddering when going over 13mph
#26
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Well likely not the same thing, but remembered this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...ble-crash.html
I remember a customer years ago that absolutely had to have a certain bike but we didn't have his size. He ended up buying one in a different size, I don't recall if he ended up on a smaller or larger frame, but he was big guy and he came in complaining of a vibration on the bike. None of us wrenches could replicated it. One of our genius sales people invited the guy on a shop ride, and we got to see him ride the bike. He sat very upright and was way back on the bike. A majority of his weight was on the rear wheel. Once we got going sure enough the bike started to shimmy. We told him to lean forward and it stopped. The shop owner setup a swap to the right size bike and the customer didn't have a complaint after that.
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Get rid of the junkie Bontrager R1 Hard-Case Lite, wire bead, 60 tpi, 700x32c tires. Do your test with the tires off the bike.
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From road feedback you can generally tell whether its a front or rear tire. Rotate slowly and examine carefully. Or take it back to the shop.
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Isn't this bike model made to ride rough roads, even cobbles comfortably? Maybe they made it to ride rough all the time, so you get used to it on smooth roads and when you come on the rough, you are already conditioned to ride on the 'rough' and so it feels not so rough?
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UPDATE #2: I took it back to Trek again today and showed them how it oscillates when shouldering it. The tech was visibly annoyed that I was back again. I showed him exactly what I was feeling and he said that it is something all bikes do. I disagreed and we argued back and forth before I convinced him to pick up a new bike on the floor and see if it did the same thing. We did that and the new bike did NOT oscillate. He then had another worker bring out his personal bike and we did the same thing again. Again, it did NOT oscillate. At this point his only response was that this is what all bikes do and some do it more than others. The sales manager came over and explained that he has 10 bikes ranging in value and that some of them are like this and others are not. He says it's just the way with bikes. He tried to convince me that what i needed to do was buy a new wheel...I asked why Trek wouldnt buy the new wheel since it is clearly a problem with their brand new wheel, he again told me that its just how some bikes are so this isnt really a defect. I told him that it was ridiculous to agree that the problem is bad enough that i should buy a new wheel and also in the same sentence tell me that Trek wouldnt fix it because nothing is wrong. At that point I was so tired of them not taking the problem seriously that I told him that I would just return it and walked out. As a last ditch effort, I took it to my local bike shop that is an authorized trek dealer and explained the problem to them. They took the problem seriously and suggested a few things it could be. I scheduled to drop it off on sunday and they will take a look to see if it is out of balance or not true or if there is something else wrong with it. Ultimately, the LBS guy said he could try to submit a warranty request on the wheel and see if they would cover it. So now, I wait again.
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I would take it to the shop you bought if from, even if less convenient. Document everything, notes, pic, video in case you have to do the warranty thing. Good luck I suggest original shop because they are the one that took your money, so you have bit more leverage than the local shop doing warranty work, where they didn't make anything from the sale
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Thank you for your comment on the gaslighting. As you can see by my second update, it is still occurring and still making me feel crazy. I could not get a good video of it vibrating, but i agree that it feels exactly like how a car wheel would feel if needed balancing. That is one of the suggestions from my LBS when i took it to them today. I will keep trying.
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My vote too, is for too small of a bike.
I once built up/reconditioned/overhauled/restored an old Centurion Omega & did a 700x23c conversion. I normally ride 58cm & the Centurion fit about like a 53/54cm frame... Ridiculously twitchy & a royal PIA to ride. Being low & in the drops is the only thing that made it managable for the few times I rode it before it sold.
The weight high & above the rear wheel is likely the culprit. The weight distribution ought to be more centered between the front/rear (or at least more evenly distributed) than it is currently. One way of doing this is getting the proper designer intended fit, or getting a bigger bike.
At my shop, the default is bars highest the steerer will allow & upturned stem. This moves the weight back, makes the rider more upright & appeals to new riders...That of course translates to better sales. Hence, the reason we do it. Experienced riders just change it for their proper fit when the get home.
Slam that stem, get in the drops & tell us if the problem still exists. If so, swap it for the next larger frame.
Good luck.
I once built up/reconditioned/overhauled/restored an old Centurion Omega & did a 700x23c conversion. I normally ride 58cm & the Centurion fit about like a 53/54cm frame... Ridiculously twitchy & a royal PIA to ride. Being low & in the drops is the only thing that made it managable for the few times I rode it before it sold.
The weight high & above the rear wheel is likely the culprit. The weight distribution ought to be more centered between the front/rear (or at least more evenly distributed) than it is currently. One way of doing this is getting the proper designer intended fit, or getting a bigger bike.
At my shop, the default is bars highest the steerer will allow & upturned stem. This moves the weight back, makes the rider more upright & appeals to new riders...That of course translates to better sales. Hence, the reason we do it. Experienced riders just change it for their proper fit when the get home.
Slam that stem, get in the drops & tell us if the problem still exists. If so, swap it for the next larger frame.
Good luck.
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You could consider contacting Trek and letting them know of your experience (with notes about which LBS you visited, the date, the person you spoke with, etc.). Note that they acknowledged the problem and recommended you buy a new wheel to fix it. Trek will probably be interested in making it right.
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I just can't see speed wobble being the issue for 13 to 20 mph that you experienced this. I've only experienced speed wooble on very old bikes that had a very long head tube. And I was way more than 35 mph when ever it happened.
Also I've never experienced it in the rear wheel as I thought you once stated is where it is.
Try to get with Trek at their regional level if someone will talk to you from there.
Also I've never experienced it in the rear wheel as I thought you once stated is where it is.
Try to get with Trek at their regional level if someone will talk to you from there.
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Just another thought. When this shuddering happens, are you in the 11, 12 or 13 cog on the rear? That will put a little vibration in the drivetrain that some of us feel when we are at speed and putting some power into the pedals.
There have been several other threads about that that started around the time of your OP. And several show up every year asking about that same thing.
It's a stretch of the imagination, but if you have powerful legs and are trying to use those cogs when at low speeds that you might be experiencing that. The solution in this case is to shift to a lower gear ratio. For normal cycling, especially on a road bike you generally need to be more than 60 rpm. What that rpm should be is not anything this thread needs to get into.
There have been several other threads about that that started around the time of your OP. And several show up every year asking about that same thing.
It's a stretch of the imagination, but if you have powerful legs and are trying to use those cogs when at low speeds that you might be experiencing that. The solution in this case is to shift to a lower gear ratio. For normal cycling, especially on a road bike you generally need to be more than 60 rpm. What that rpm should be is not anything this thread needs to get into.
#38
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right there with you. I pop in occasionally to see what problems exist on new bikes and how to fix them, but then usually pop back out again. Especially when people start talking electronics, suspensions, or disc brakes.
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THe oscillation from spinning the unloaded wheel is 100% NOT the problem. THe bike shop was correct that all bikes do this, some much more than others, but it's not something you can feel while riding, and certainly not at 13mph. I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with your bike, but bicycle wheels are almost always way out of balance and it does not cause issues.
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Have you tested the headset yet to make sure it isn't too loose?
#41
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UPDATE #2: I took it back to Trek again today and showed them how it oscillates when shouldering it. The tech was visibly annoyed that I was back again. I showed him exactly what I was feeling and he said that it is something all bikes do. I disagreed and we argued back and forth before I convinced him to pick up a new bike on the floor and see if it did the same thing. We did that and the new bike did NOT oscillate. He then had another worker bring out his personal bike and we did the same thing again. Again, it did NOT oscillate. At this point his only response was that this is what all bikes do and some do it more than others. The sales manager came over and explained that he has 10 bikes ranging in value and that some of them are like this and others are not. He says it's just the way with bikes. He tried to convince me that what i needed to do was buy a new wheel...I asked why Trek wouldnt buy the new wheel since it is clearly a problem with their brand new wheel, he again told me that its just how some bikes are so this isnt really a defect. I told him that it was ridiculous to agree that the problem is bad enough that i should buy a new wheel and also in the same sentence tell me that Trek wouldnt fix it because nothing is wrong. At that point I was so tired of them not taking the problem seriously that I told him that I would just return it and walked out. As a last ditch effort, I took it to my local bike shop that is an authorized trek dealer and explained the problem to them. They took the problem seriously and suggested a few things it could be. I scheduled to drop it off on sunday and they will take a look to see if it is out of balance or not true or if there is something else wrong with it. Ultimately, the LBS guy said he could try to submit a warranty request on the wheel and see if they would cover it. So now, I wait again.
They've also opened up a shop in my hometown and tried to muscle the long-established, locally active LBS although the local LBS has a rapidly loyal customer base and seems to be holding up OK.
In conclusion Trek can suck a dick.
#42
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Thank you for your comment on the gaslighting. As you can see by my second update, it is still occurring and still making me feel crazy. I could not get a good video of it vibrating, but i agree that it feels exactly like how a car wheel would feel if needed balancing. That is one of the suggestions from my LBS when i took it to them today. I will keep trying.
But that doesn't change the fact that you are feeling something. It's just that it could be something else. I would follow the procedure I linked in that video. It's really easy to do. No new wheel required. If balancing the wheel doesn't fix the problem, you know it's something else. And like everyone else on this thread, I suspect it's something else. But we can't be sure until you balance the wheel.
ETA: I'm pretty sure my wheels are out of balance (I'll try to get a video soon) and I've gone over 50mph on them with 0 issues. Like others say, 13mph is very, very slow for a bicycle.
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#43
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I would suggest to the OP that they remove the rear tire and spin the wheel to see if the same condition still exists. If it doesn't, the tire and tube may be the cause of the imbalance
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The flaw with this suggestion is that the out of balance wheel is not the cause of OP's problem. Spinning a wheel while off the ground is not a reasonable representation of riding the bicycle.
#45
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I know that, but it would put the OP's mind at rest if they found the wheel itself to be properly balanced which is why I made the suggestion
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I don't think it would be helpful as they cannot test ride to see if the problem persists with a balanced wheel. They are likely to find that the wheel balance is improved (or worsened) and continue with the incorrect assumption that the out-of-balance wheel is causing their problem.
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If the OP brought his bike in to my shop the first thing I'd do is ride it. If it wasn't completely normal I'd swap a wheel from a bike on the floor and see if there was any difference. This is so simple but I guess not all shop mechanics are of the 'sharper tool in the shed' gang.
#48
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If the OP brought his bike in to my shop the first thing I'd do is ride it. If it wasn't completely normal I'd swap a wheel from a bike on the floor and see if there was any difference. This is so simple but I guess not all shop mechanics are of the 'sharper tool in the shed' gang.
All the references to wheel "balance" in this thread, are they really discussing whether the wheel needs to be trued?
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Nah, it's when one part of a wheel is heavier than another. On bikes, it's often where the stem is. On cars, if you look closely at the rim, there are often little weights at different spots (almost look like pebbles) at the rim tire interface. If one of them gets knocked off, at high speeds it feels like you're driving over a rumble strip even when on glass smooth roads.
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Nah, it's when one part of a wheel is heavier than another. On bikes, it's often where the stem is. On cars, if you look closely at the rim, there are often little weights at different spots (almost look like pebbles) at the rim tire interface. If one of them gets knocked off, at high speeds it feels like you're driving over a rumble strip even when on glass smooth roads.