Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

3 week old Domane sl4 has bad shuddering when going over 13mph

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

3 week old Domane sl4 has bad shuddering when going over 13mph

Old 06-08-21, 11:08 AM
  #26  
RGMN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 565
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 241 Post(s)
Liked 231 Times in 152 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Well likely not the same thing, but remembered this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...ble-crash.html
That's actually what I was thinking it could be.

I remember a customer years ago that absolutely had to have a certain bike but we didn't have his size. He ended up buying one in a different size, I don't recall if he ended up on a smaller or larger frame, but he was big guy and he came in complaining of a vibration on the bike. None of us wrenches could replicated it. One of our genius sales people invited the guy on a shop ride, and we got to see him ride the bike. He sat very upright and was way back on the bike. A majority of his weight was on the rear wheel. Once we got going sure enough the bike started to shimmy. We told him to lean forward and it stopped. The shop owner setup a swap to the right size bike and the customer didn't have a complaint after that.
RGMN is offline  
Likes For RGMN:
Old 06-08-21, 11:08 AM
  #27  
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,847

Bikes: Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1931 Post(s)
Liked 741 Times in 421 Posts
Get rid of the junkie Bontrager R1 Hard-Case Lite, wire bead, 60 tpi, 700x32c tires. Do your test with the tires off the bike.
trailangel is offline  
Old 06-08-21, 11:11 AM
  #28  
oldbobcat
Senior Member
 
oldbobcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 4,370

Bikes: '80 Masi Gran Criterium, '12 Trek Madone, early '60s Frejus track

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 508 Post(s)
Liked 434 Times in 331 Posts
Originally Posted by vane171

In my perhaps blessed ignorance, if I would be told that tires are seated properly and that it will not be them ... I would have asked them why not test it on a ride.
Good catch. A badly seated tire would do that. Also, a tire that has taken a serious hit, like a pothole or railroad track at speed.

From road feedback you can generally tell whether its a front or rear tire. Rotate slowly and examine carefully. Or take it back to the shop.
oldbobcat is offline  
Old 06-08-21, 11:23 AM
  #29  
vane171
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 252 Post(s)
Liked 67 Times in 48 Posts
Isn't this bike model made to ride rough roads, even cobbles comfortably? Maybe they made it to ride rough all the time, so you get used to it on smooth roads and when you come on the rough, you are already conditioned to ride on the 'rough' and so it feels not so rough?
vane171 is offline  
Likes For vane171:
Old 06-08-21, 12:53 PM
  #30  
Tmintier
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
UPDATE #2: I took it back to Trek again today and showed them how it oscillates when shouldering it. The tech was visibly annoyed that I was back again. I showed him exactly what I was feeling and he said that it is something all bikes do. I disagreed and we argued back and forth before I convinced him to pick up a new bike on the floor and see if it did the same thing. We did that and the new bike did NOT oscillate. He then had another worker bring out his personal bike and we did the same thing again. Again, it did NOT oscillate. At this point his only response was that this is what all bikes do and some do it more than others. The sales manager came over and explained that he has 10 bikes ranging in value and that some of them are like this and others are not. He says it's just the way with bikes. He tried to convince me that what i needed to do was buy a new wheel...I asked why Trek wouldnt buy the new wheel since it is clearly a problem with their brand new wheel, he again told me that its just how some bikes are so this isnt really a defect. I told him that it was ridiculous to agree that the problem is bad enough that i should buy a new wheel and also in the same sentence tell me that Trek wouldnt fix it because nothing is wrong. At that point I was so tired of them not taking the problem seriously that I told him that I would just return it and walked out. As a last ditch effort, I took it to my local bike shop that is an authorized trek dealer and explained the problem to them. They took the problem seriously and suggested a few things it could be. I scheduled to drop it off on sunday and they will take a look to see if it is out of balance or not true or if there is something else wrong with it. Ultimately, the LBS guy said he could try to submit a warranty request on the wheel and see if they would cover it. So now, I wait again.
Tmintier is offline  
Old 06-08-21, 12:56 PM
  #31  
Tmintier
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by squirtdad
I would take it to the shop you bought if from, even if less convenient. Document everything, notes, pic, video in case you have to do the warranty thing. Good luck I suggest original shop because they are the one that took your money, so you have bit more leverage than the local shop doing warranty work, where they didn't make anything from the sale
I totally agree with you about taking it back to the original shop i purchased it from. It's just that I can't get there during a workday and it's too far away to get there by the time they close, so I have to go on a weekend. I was trying to get the problem solved at a closer location so that it wouldn't be an issue, but it's not working out so well for me.
Tmintier is offline  
Old 06-08-21, 01:00 PM
  #32  
Tmintier
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thank you for your comment on the gaslighting. As you can see by my second update, it is still occurring and still making me feel crazy. I could not get a good video of it vibrating, but i agree that it feels exactly like how a car wheel would feel if needed balancing. That is one of the suggestions from my LBS when i took it to them today. I will keep trying.
Tmintier is offline  
Old 06-08-21, 01:20 PM
  #33  
base2 
I am potato.
 
base2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,073

Bikes: Only precision built, custom high performance elitist machines of the highest caliber. 🍆

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1764 Post(s)
Liked 1,577 Times in 910 Posts
My vote too, is for too small of a bike.

I once built up/reconditioned/overhauled/restored an old Centurion Omega & did a 700x23c conversion. I normally ride 58cm & the Centurion fit about like a 53/54cm frame... Ridiculously twitchy & a royal PIA to ride. Being low & in the drops is the only thing that made it managable for the few times I rode it before it sold.

The weight high & above the rear wheel is likely the culprit. The weight distribution ought to be more centered between the front/rear (or at least more evenly distributed) than it is currently. One way of doing this is getting the proper designer intended fit, or getting a bigger bike.

At my shop, the default is bars highest the steerer will allow & upturned stem. This moves the weight back, makes the rider more upright & appeals to new riders...That of course translates to better sales. Hence, the reason we do it. Experienced riders just change it for their proper fit when the get home.

Slam that stem, get in the drops & tell us if the problem still exists. If so, swap it for the next larger frame.

Good luck.
__________________
I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.

Car dependency is a tax.
base2 is offline  
Old 06-08-21, 01:29 PM
  #34  
lexus1995
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Try to visit your dealer and ask him if there are anny issues.
lexus1995 is offline  
Old 06-08-21, 01:36 PM
  #35  
hokiefyd 
Senior Member
 
hokiefyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Northern Shenandoah Valley
Posts: 4,124

Bikes: More bikes than riders

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1438 Post(s)
Liked 749 Times in 559 Posts
You could consider contacting Trek and letting them know of your experience (with notes about which LBS you visited, the date, the person you spoke with, etc.). Note that they acknowledged the problem and recommended you buy a new wheel to fix it. Trek will probably be interested in making it right.
hokiefyd is offline  
Old 06-08-21, 02:06 PM
  #36  
Iride01 
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,810

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6100 Post(s)
Liked 4,732 Times in 3,262 Posts
I just can't see speed wobble being the issue for 13 to 20 mph that you experienced this. I've only experienced speed wooble on very old bikes that had a very long head tube. And I was way more than 35 mph when ever it happened.

Also I've never experienced it in the rear wheel as I thought you once stated is where it is.

Try to get with Trek at their regional level if someone will talk to you from there.
Iride01 is online now  
Old 06-10-21, 06:51 AM
  #37  
Iride01 
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,810

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6100 Post(s)
Liked 4,732 Times in 3,262 Posts
Just another thought. When this shuddering happens, are you in the 11, 12 or 13 cog on the rear? That will put a little vibration in the drivetrain that some of us feel when we are at speed and putting some power into the pedals.

There have been several other threads about that that started around the time of your OP. And several show up every year asking about that same thing.

It's a stretch of the imagination, but if you have powerful legs and are trying to use those cogs when at low speeds that you might be experiencing that. The solution in this case is to shift to a lower gear ratio. For normal cycling, especially on a road bike you generally need to be more than 60 rpm. What that rpm should be is not anything this thread needs to get into.
Iride01 is online now  
Old 06-10-21, 08:13 AM
  #38  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,553
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4196 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times in 1,780 Posts
Originally Posted by mrv
..... i thought you were joking. like.... "check the muffler bearings with a $20 bill test"
...okydohy, I'll head back over to the Classic & Vintage Asylum. I wish they'd quit letting me wander away.....

ciao!
right there with you. I pop in occasionally to see what problems exist on new bikes and how to fix them, but then usually pop back out again. Especially when people start talking electronics, suspensions, or disc brakes.
himespau is offline  
Likes For himespau:
Old 06-10-21, 08:49 AM
  #39  
ClydeClydeson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked 921 Times in 518 Posts
THe oscillation from spinning the unloaded wheel is 100% NOT the problem. THe bike shop was correct that all bikes do this, some much more than others, but it's not something you can feel while riding, and certainly not at 13mph. I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with your bike, but bicycle wheels are almost always way out of balance and it does not cause issues.
ClydeClydeson is offline  
Old 06-10-21, 08:57 AM
  #40  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,553
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4196 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times in 1,780 Posts
Have you tested the headset yet to make sure it isn't too loose?
himespau is offline  
Old 06-10-21, 09:14 AM
  #41  
ksryder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,549

Bikes: yes

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1281 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times in 329 Posts
Originally Posted by Tmintier
UPDATE #2: I took it back to Trek again today and showed them how it oscillates when shouldering it. The tech was visibly annoyed that I was back again. I showed him exactly what I was feeling and he said that it is something all bikes do. I disagreed and we argued back and forth before I convinced him to pick up a new bike on the floor and see if it did the same thing. We did that and the new bike did NOT oscillate. He then had another worker bring out his personal bike and we did the same thing again. Again, it did NOT oscillate. At this point his only response was that this is what all bikes do and some do it more than others. The sales manager came over and explained that he has 10 bikes ranging in value and that some of them are like this and others are not. He says it's just the way with bikes. He tried to convince me that what i needed to do was buy a new wheel...I asked why Trek wouldnt buy the new wheel since it is clearly a problem with their brand new wheel, he again told me that its just how some bikes are so this isnt really a defect. I told him that it was ridiculous to agree that the problem is bad enough that i should buy a new wheel and also in the same sentence tell me that Trek wouldnt fix it because nothing is wrong. At that point I was so tired of them not taking the problem seriously that I told him that I would just return it and walked out. As a last ditch effort, I took it to my local bike shop that is an authorized trek dealer and explained the problem to them. They took the problem seriously and suggested a few things it could be. I scheduled to drop it off on sunday and they will take a look to see if it is out of balance or not true or if there is something else wrong with it. Ultimately, the LBS guy said he could try to submit a warranty request on the wheel and see if they would cover it. So now, I wait again.
Can't help with the speed wobble issue but I have had unsatisfactory customer service experiences at official Trek Stores. I don't know why Trek bothers with warranties when their official shops get pissy if you bring in a Trek you bought somewhere else. I had moved several hours away from the LBS I bought the bike and the nearest Trek store gave me some serious attitude about doing warranty work on a brake replacement and tried to tell me I should take the bike back to the shop I got it from--4 hours away.

They've also opened up a shop in my hometown and tried to muscle the long-established, locally active LBS although the local LBS has a rapidly loyal customer base and seems to be holding up OK.

In conclusion Trek can suck a dick.
ksryder is offline  
Old 06-10-21, 12:08 PM
  #42  
smashndash
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,410

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Allez Sprint Comp

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 850 Post(s)
Liked 344 Times in 247 Posts
Originally Posted by Tmintier
Thank you for your comment on the gaslighting. As you can see by my second update, it is still occurring and still making me feel crazy. I could not get a good video of it vibrating, but i agree that it feels exactly like how a car wheel would feel if needed balancing. That is one of the suggestions from my LBS when i took it to them today. I will keep trying.
For what it is worth, I am not saying that wheel balancing is the problem. Your bicycle mechanics are right that many wheels (especially deep carbon wheels with big valves) are highly out of balance and rarely do people notice it at all, let alone feel that it is unsafe.

But that doesn't change the fact that you are feeling something. It's just that it could be something else. I would follow the procedure I linked in that video. It's really easy to do. No new wheel required. If balancing the wheel doesn't fix the problem, you know it's something else. And like everyone else on this thread, I suspect it's something else. But we can't be sure until you balance the wheel.

ETA: I'm pretty sure my wheels are out of balance (I'll try to get a video soon) and I've gone over 50mph on them with 0 issues. Like others say, 13mph is very, very slow for a bicycle.
smashndash is offline  
Likes For smashndash:
Old 06-10-21, 12:37 PM
  #43  
alcjphil
Senior Member
 
alcjphil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 5,869
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1792 Post(s)
Liked 1,671 Times in 955 Posts
I would suggest to the OP that they remove the rear tire and spin the wheel to see if the same condition still exists. If it doesn't, the tire and tube may be the cause of the imbalance
alcjphil is offline  
Old 06-10-21, 12:44 PM
  #44  
ClydeClydeson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked 921 Times in 518 Posts
Originally Posted by alcjphil
I would suggest to the OP that they remove the rear tire and spin the wheel to see if the same condition still exists. If it doesn't, the tire and tube may be the cause of the imbalance
The flaw with this suggestion is that the out of balance wheel is not the cause of OP's problem. Spinning a wheel while off the ground is not a reasonable representation of riding the bicycle.
ClydeClydeson is offline  
Old 06-10-21, 12:49 PM
  #45  
alcjphil
Senior Member
 
alcjphil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 5,869
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1792 Post(s)
Liked 1,671 Times in 955 Posts
Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson
The flaw with this suggestion is that the out of balance wheel is not the cause of OP's problem. Spinning a wheel while off the ground is not a reasonable representation of riding the bicycle.
I know that, but it would put the OP's mind at rest if they found the wheel itself to be properly balanced which is why I made the suggestion
alcjphil is offline  
Old 06-10-21, 12:54 PM
  #46  
ClydeClydeson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked 921 Times in 518 Posts
Originally Posted by alcjphil
I know that, but it would put the OP's mind at rest if they found the wheel itself to be properly balanced which is why I made the suggestion
I don't think it would be helpful as they cannot test ride to see if the problem persists with a balanced wheel. They are likely to find that the wheel balance is improved (or worsened) and continue with the incorrect assumption that the out-of-balance wheel is causing their problem.
ClydeClydeson is offline  
Old 06-10-21, 04:20 PM
  #47  
cxwrench
Senior Member
 
cxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,767

Bikes: lots

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1958 Post(s)
Liked 2,932 Times in 1,489 Posts
If the OP brought his bike in to my shop the first thing I'd do is ride it. If it wasn't completely normal I'd swap a wheel from a bike on the floor and see if there was any difference. This is so simple but I guess not all shop mechanics are of the 'sharper tool in the shed' gang.
cxwrench is offline  
Old 06-10-21, 06:40 PM
  #48  
SoSmellyAir
Method to My Madness
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,542

Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata GRX

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1876 Post(s)
Liked 1,411 Times in 979 Posts
Originally Posted by cxwrench
If the OP brought his bike in to my shop the first thing I'd do is ride it. If it wasn't completely normal I'd swap a wheel from a bike on the floor and see if there was any difference. This is so simple but I guess not all shop mechanics are of the 'sharper tool in the shed' gang.
Exactly this, i.e., try to replicate with different wheels, first front alone, then back alone, then both.

All the references to wheel "balance" in this thread, are they really discussing whether the wheel needs to be trued?
SoSmellyAir is offline  
Old 06-10-21, 07:53 PM
  #49  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,553
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4196 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times in 1,780 Posts
Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir
Exactly this, i.e., try to replicate with different wheels, first front alone, then back alone, then both.

All the references to wheel "balance" in this thread, are they really discussing whether the wheel needs to be trued?
Nah, it's when one part of a wheel is heavier than another. On bikes, it's often where the stem is. On cars, if you look closely at the rim, there are often little weights at different spots (almost look like pebbles) at the rim tire interface. If one of them gets knocked off, at high speeds it feels like you're driving over a rumble strip even when on glass smooth roads.
himespau is offline  
Old 06-10-21, 07:58 PM
  #50  
SoSmellyAir
Method to My Madness
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,542

Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata GRX

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1876 Post(s)
Liked 1,411 Times in 979 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau
Nah, it's when one part of a wheel is heavier than another. On bikes, it's often where the stem is. On cars, if you look closely at the rim, there are often little weights at different spots (almost look like pebbles) at the rim tire interface. If one of them gets knocked off, at high speeds it feels like you're driving over a rumble strip even when on glass smooth roads.
Yes, I know that wheel balance technically refer to rotational balance of mass and inertia, like what is done on a car when you buy new wheels and/or tires. But since most people say that wheel balance makes no difference on a bike wheel and tire combination, I am wondering whether the others above are just hypothesizing that the problem is that the wheel is out of true when they mention balance.
SoSmellyAir is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.