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Comparison of two tube and parts-bundle for a first bike-frame:

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Comparison of two tube and parts-bundle for a first bike-frame:

Old 10-15-21, 02:53 PM
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apollodriver
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Comparison of two tube and parts-bundle for a first bike-frame:

hello dear all,

i am currently looking for some sets that include (allmost) all parts for a first bike-frame.
note: i live in Germany / Europe. So i prefer European suppliers.


see the two offers i am comparing:


Tube and Parts Bundle

Tubing & Parts for a Standard Sized Steel Road Frame. * £165.95 Price Includes Carriage to UK and Europe

Made Up of:
Cromoly Tubeset
Top Tube 25.4 x 600 x 0.9/0.6/0.9mm
Down Tube 28.6 x 640 x 0.9/0.6/0.9mm
Seat Tube 28.6 x 640 x 0.9/0.6mm
Chain Stays 22.2 x 420 x 0.8mm
Seat Stays 16 x 560 x 0.8mm
Head Tube 31.7 x 200 x 1mm

Parts
LB100R Pressed BB Shell English Thread 60.5/62.5 degree
486 Cast Seat Lug 73.3 deg.
487 Cast Head Lugs 73.3 / 59.30 deg.
Forged Horizontal Dropouts No Eye
Mudguard eyes x 4
190 Brake Bridge 80mm
244 Chain Stay Bridge
Slotted Cable Stop x 3
286B Cast Front Derailleur Boss
301N Down Tube STI Gear Boss x 2
Bottle Cage Boss M5 x 4
287 Pump Pip
Chain Hanger Peg
H8 Brake Boss Rear x 1 pair
16mm Top Eyes x 1 pair
295 Front Carrier Boss x 2
PL 2081 Plastic Underbracket Guide
Sif Bronze 101 Brass Rod 1.5mm 100g
Flux for above 100 g



and now the comparison:
if we compare it with this tubeset: found here https://www.thecnoline.it/store/

TUBAZIONI PER TELAI CROMOLY SET ST-254
Cod:ST-254
90,28 € IVA inc. // 74,00 € IVA esc.
https://www.thecnoline.it/store/prod..._prodotto=4946

SCHEDA PRODOTTO
Per telai dimensioni classiche a congiunzioni
Tubo orizzontale Ø 25.4 x 650 triplo spessore 0.9/0.6/0.9 1 pezzo.
Tubo obliquo Ø 28.6 x 670 triplo spessore 0.9/0.6/0.9 1 pezzo.
Tubo verticale Ø 28.6 x 650 doppio spessore 0.9/0.6 (cannotto sella Ø 27.2) 1 pezzo.
Tubo sterzo Ø 31.7 x 200 1 pezzo.
Tubo posteriore orizzontale Ø 22.2 x 450 x 1 conificato Ø12.5 2 pezzi.
Tubo posteriore verticale Ø 14 x 570 x 0.7 conificato Ø10.5 2 pezzi.
Materiale acciaio Cr-Mo 4130 o 25Cr-Mo 4 senza saldatura multitrafilato a freddo.

Set totale 8 tubi per un telaio.
Peso set massima lunghezza 1850 gr.
supplier: THECNO ITALY S.r.l. - Via A.M. Mozzoni, 12 - 24124 Bergamo (BG) - Italy - P.IVA IT03781710169 - Tel. 334 7553805 - Fax 035 347352 - info@thecnoline.it


well - afaik the second set has got no lugs / shells - But besides this - all looks pretti nice!?

update - update: here see the lugs & shells from this supplier -
Home - bicycle components - BOTTOM HEAD LUG
https://www.thecnoline.it/store/cate...05&posizione=3

Home - bicycle components - bb shell
https://www.thecnoline.it/store/cate...04&posizione=3
well - that is a very very fair and good price i think!


note: the second set comes for less than 100 Eur - the first one ( from the british supplier ceeway / Framebuilding Bicycles. Tubing, Parts, and Tools costs allmost 200 Eur - plus shipping and tax from the Brexit-Britain...


What do you say.

look forward to hear from you
regards
apollodriver

Last edited by apollodriver; 10-21-21 at 03:19 AM.
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Old 10-15-21, 06:14 PM
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The two tube sets seem to be very close to the same dimensionally. Slight differences in stays but with the same geometry these two sets will produce pretty much the same ride. As to which is more cost effective you'll have to do the math on the lacking bits with option 2 and compare to option 1. I agree with your tube wall choices for your first frame.

Have you been practicing brazing on thin wall and sleeved joints?

My advise is to get two tube sets, whatever you choose. One is to make that mistake with and the other is to finish frame 1 with and will be the seed for #2. Andy
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Old 10-16-21, 02:46 AM
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If you're making a TIG frame I would use an externally butted seat tube and a thicker head tube (32.4 rather than 31.7), and you will want a plain BB shell. Ceeway will be able to sort you out with all this. If lugs then just buying both might be a good idea-- the Ceeway set comes with everything you need and then you have some spare tubes. I remember how nervous I was on my first frame that I might cut a tube too short or mess something up-- I should have taken Andrew's advice!
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Old 10-16-21, 07:53 AM
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I agree with the comments above and would just add this... Take your time on the first frame. I found myself being in a hurry and probably should have slowed down. Also, practice your tube joining technique on something other than expensive tubes. I purchased ~1 mm wall thickness mild steel tubes to practice with ($25 USD for 9 feet of tube, which I cut into small pieces). I should have spent more time practicing! Again, take your time. And have fun with it! Good luck!!
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Old 10-16-21, 02:40 PM
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hello dear Andrew R Stewart, guy153, Devin Rickey,


first of all; many many thanks for all your feedback - your shared insights, experience and knowledge.

i am happy.

and yes: i am nervous on the plans of my first frame that I might cut a tube too short or mess something up therefore i am happy to hear your advcices: i love Andrew's advice!

and i can say with guy153: yes: i have not been practicing brazing on thin wall and sleeved joints? Yes and therefore i take your advice - getting two tube sets, whatever i choose.


i will take the advice of Devin Rickey - i will practice the tube joining technique on something other than the expensive tubes. i look for ~1 mm wall thickness mild steel tubes to practice with (and i hope i ll find some for a similar price than you did Devin Rickey $25 USD for 9 feet of tube.)

I will take them and cut them into small pieces.

regarding the Threadstart and the advice from Andrew regarding the view on the both sets -
a. the one from Framebuilder(Ceeway) and
b. the set from the italian supplier - based in Bergamo (which is in the northern part of Italy)

Many thanks for the ideas and hints.

--.....The two tube sets seem to be very close to the same dimensionally. Slight differences in stays but with the same geometry these two sets will produce pretty much the same ride. As to which is more cost effective you'll have to do the math on the lacking bits with option 2 and compare to option 1. I agree with your tube wall choices for your first frame.
i ll do some maths and will look for getting the rest of the parts - especially the lugs /(shells) - perhaps the italian supplier has got some lugs / shells that fit here.

dear Andrew, R Stewart, guy153, Devin Rickey, - many thanks for all your great ideas - i am happy to be part of this greatr forum. it rocks and is generally a great place for idea sharing and knowledge exchange - so awesome

regards apollodriver

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Old 10-16-21, 07:33 PM
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ad- unrelated to tube sets is the practice. I suggest after becoming ok with the two tube stubs brazed together you try a joint or three with thick walled and thin walled parts. So much of good brazing is about heat control and having the two parts of a joint not heat up at the same rate adds some complexity. Much like a BB shell and main frame tube joint. Andy
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Old 10-17-21, 10:59 AM
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Yes, what Andrew said. In fact almost every joint on the frame is thick to thin.

Also I would start with 90 degree joints and when you're comfortable with those try some of the angles you get on the actual frame as the tighter angles can present some new challenges of their own.

Basically every joint on the actual frame you should try at least once on scrap parts (or as many times as it takes to feel fairly confident about it).
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Old 10-17-21, 03:52 PM
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hello guy153 hello andrew

many many thanks for all your great hints - and that you encourage me. It is great to be part of this great forum.

you give mini-lessons visible here in this thread
- starting points for us to make the next steps... and you...
- describe concepts in multiple ways...;(see above with the different approaches -
- Incorporate practical steps and also aids
- encourage (all the novices here) to go ahead with little steps;

Many many thanks - it is a great pleasure to be here.

dear guy153 and andrew

have a great day.

greetings
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Old 10-17-21, 04:01 PM
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Yes little steps and most importantly don't give up. You should have seen my first TIG welds. I never thought I would be able to make a bike frame. But somehow if you keep practicing you get better often without really knowing why or how. So really the only fatal mistake you can ever make is to give up.
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Old 10-21-21, 03:20 AM
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Hello dear Guy
many many thanks for your reply - great to read your good and encouraging lines.

Originally Posted by guy153
Yes little steps and most importantly don't give up. You should have seen my first TIG welds. I never thought I would be able to make a bike frame. But somehow if you keep practicing you get better often without really knowing why or how. So really the only fatal mistake you can ever make is to give up.
great ideas - awesome to see such outstanding support here.

i really love these forums

have a great day.
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