Broctoon

So I sometimes like to try passing other riders. Often, I can pull it off. (Not always.) I’m not smug about it. I don’t gloat or grin at them. Most of them probably don’t care or even pay any attention to me. But I wonder.

Years ago, someone on the forums read a post from a guy who described doing the same thing and replied “Yeah, nothing cooler than beating other riders who aren’t racing.” He’s being sarcastic, and he’s (sarcastically) right.

I just have a little competitive streak, and I find I can push myself harder during a workout if I lock onto a target a quarter mile or so ahead and commit to passing him. If I notice someone approaching me from behind, I try to keep my lead on him.

Not trying to troll here. I’m sincerely interested in your take on this tendency of mine. What do you say?

Mojo31

I’ve done the same thing. Frequently lose though, in a non-douch like way.

Broctoon

For more context, I should add the following.

Where I do this most often is at a city park with a little paved loop that is popular with cyclists. I’ll do ten laps, usually. This means I might see many other bikers, and might have the chance to not only pass but lap some of them... if I push hard enough.

It happened today. I was about two laps into my workout, so was just warmed up and starting to get into my stride when another rider started out, ahead of me a little way. I got him in my sights and decided to try catching him. Not to show off or prove anything, just for my own motivation. It only works for me when the other guy seems reasonably close to my ability. If it’s a fat guy or an old lady on a beach cruiser, obviously there’s no point. This guy was young and healthy, on a good bike, and moving at a pretty good clip. We were an even match on the flats (given that he “wasn’t racing”… if he’d wanted to, perhaps he could have easily smoked me). I was stronger on the climbs and passed him there. In fact, I lapped him on my ninth lap and then passed him on the climb again.

I should also add that I’m aware what I should be doing is getting into racing. I’ve done a little bit, but for various reasons it is not an activity that would be possible for me to get into regularly. That’s a topic for another discussion. I am going to enter my first crit in a few months. I’m both excited and a little nervous about that.

Koyote

I think the snarky comments have been directed to posters who pretend that this is actually racing. You know, posters who tell breathless stories of these competitions with people who aren't competing back.

Broctoon , do you participate in any group rides? If not, you should find one with riders who will challenge you -- who will make you work your ass off just to keep up. Seems like you'd enjoy it.

TurboTrueno

i don't think you are out of line at all. It is cool to see people givin' er

With fixed gear on my usual route (very hilly) I am always in this weird situation where I have to pass people on uphills, or I lose all my steam. Then they just smoke me on the flat land and descents. Then I encounter them again at the next uphill and have to pass again

The paved loop you described sounds like a lot of fun, I would expect that kind of fun chasing if I was doing laps on such a loop

Broctoon

One of my favorite moments during a workout was a few years ago when I was at the park doing laps and I acquired a target, who was younger and at least looked stronger than me. He was on a bike similar to mine (both fixed gear, and light/stiff frames... not some junky dept. store boat anchor). He was really moving. I worked hard to catch and then pass him, and continued working to stay ahead. I eventually eased up, and he caught me and matched my speed to chat. He said, “Man, I didn’t think I’d ever catch you! You were pulling hard up the hill!” We talked for a few minutes while riding, and it was evident he was racing (sort of), as was I. That was a real morale booster and it confirmed that not everyone is either oblivious to or turned off by my riding behavior. Maybe most are, but occasionally I can find someone who wants to informally compete.

I usually ride a fixed gear on this course, and TurboTrueno, I've had similar experience to yours. Moderately steep climbs are easier on it than on my geared bikes. Let me rephrase that. Going fast up moderate climbs is easier to force myself to do. The climbing is not less strenuous. When I'm off the tail of a guy on a road bike and I see him shift down and start spinning at the start of the climb, I know I've got him. That approach is not an option for me, so I just have to stand up and mash! On the flats, I can usually keep up with guys on geared bikes (the flats on this course are less than half a mile long... greater distance than that, they'd probably wear me down). I can't hope to keep up on the descents, if someone is intent on walking away from me. But over the whole 1.3 mile course of rolling hills, I don't think I can get a better time on my road bike. Similarly, I don't encounter too many guys who are doing laps faster than me.

jon c. 

I'm not very fast and even I try to do that. It's human nature.

tomato coupe

Yeah, and those stories often emphasize how the other riders were on more expensive bikes, wearing "full kit", etc.

Broctoon

I do, almost every week, spring through fall. We ride a flat, 22 mile course. We stay in a paceline most of the way, but now and then some of the faster guys will decide to break away. And lately, a habit has developed for whoever is so inclined to break from the line and send it with a short, max sprint at a couple of designated spots on our route. This is FUN! Most of the guys in this group are comparable or slightly better than me in their athletic conditioning and riding experience, so it's the perfect group for pushing me to try hard.

Broctoon

One thing I've learned is there are lots of guys on bikes that have seen better days, wearing attire that is anything but the latest fads, who are really fast.. and tireless.

I used to see the guys who show up on the latest models, wearing a $500 Rapha or Castelli kit, and I'd think, "Wow, I bet he's fast." Sometimes he is. But not always.

Now, if I'm doing laps at the park and I see someone on at least a decent bike, and he's not shirtless and listening to podcasts while he rides... I usually think he might give me a run for my money.

base2 

I imagine everyone has done it one time or another. The defining factor is if you are an agressive clown, can't hold your cool, or can't maintain your gain.

Don't be dangerous or put others at risk. Leave the poor sod whose out enjoying his own ride alone.

Drafting someone with out permission is not cool. In fact it's rude for a variety of reasons. It's on par with tailgating. It puts the unwilling wind break at risk of your wheel cock-up, makes him responsible for your safety as well as his own & lets you ride beyond your own skill level or ability. Nobody likes to be used. Especially if in front, you can't return the favor with at least an equal pull of your own after arranging for an agreement of mutual benefit. Leave the poor sod whose out enjoying his own ride alone.

If you can't maintain your gain, the result is a lot of unnecessary passing & every pass requires a new situational analysis & negotiation with all the possible trail occupants/hazards. It can be tiring to be pinched between dog walkers, joggers, & pedestrians 3 times in a mile & a half by the same enthusiastic new cyclist with no ability to sustain. --If you're struggling & failing, give it a rest. It may be today is not your day. Leave the poor sod whose out enjoying his own ride alone.

The fast guys, they tend to be choosy how & when they go fast. It's the enthusiastic n00bs that get people hurt &/or make uncool decisions.

Above all ride polite. The id10t with the headphones & the 6 foot dog leash or the other guy out for a workout just like you, has a right to be on the trail too.

In short, ride your own ride, generally considerate of others & you'll be well on your way away from D-bag territory.

Polaris OBark

seypat

Cat 6 at it's finest.

Honestly, when I read one of these posts the first thing that comes to mind is "has this person never been in any type of sport or competitive situation in their life?" It's human nature. Everyone wants to win/finish first. Nobody wants to finish last.

The other thing that comes to mind is:
​"I discovered today that doing core work is healthy for your body. I also noticed the sky is blue. I thought I'd let the forum know."

I apologize for the rant, but some of these things are common knowledge. No reason for discussion unless you are trolling.

Broctoon

I never do this. I see it as a given that this is antisocial behavior. And if I approach a lone female rider from behind, I either stay way back or wait to pass when I can do it decisively. I don't want to give the impression I'm following her.

Yeah, I can see how this would be off-putting. Usually, I can keep my position ahead of whoever I've just passed, if not pull ahead. Sometimes I can't even catch the guy. We seldom have a back and forth interchange.

The nice thing about this loop is it's an actual road, not just a narrow MUP. From the outer to inner part of the loop, there is one wide vehicle lane (one way road), then a painted bike lane, and then a pedestrian lane. The only times I've had conflicts were when some walkers (usually with strollers and/or dogs) move into the bike lane at the same time there's a car nearby. It can get a little congested. It's usually not bad, and most folks get along fine with each other. It's a pretty unique setting, and I drive 40 minutes each way to work out there. I've been going there for nearly 40 years. For my first 14 years on the planet, my family lived less than two miles from the park, and I rode there frequently. At 52 now, I still love to ride there; I just don't get to as often as I'd like.

caloso

What kind of workout is this? Do you just head out to do laps and then look for a rabbit to chase?

VegasJen

A couple days ago I was riding "sprints" in my neighborhood. I would ride up one way at speed, then back the other in recovery. As I was finishing one recovery, I passed a bicyclist going the opposite way (opposite side). When I got to the end of the street, I turned around and started my sprint. I passed him again (same side). When I got to the other end of the street, I turned around, started my recovery and passed him again (opposite side).

He may have thought I was being a ****** but it was actually my training regimen for the day.

Broctoon

What I might think is common knowledge could prompt some forum members to reply, "Sort of, but you have to consider this aspect..." I bring up questions like this to encourage a stimulating discussion, which is exactly what we've had here. I don't think that's trolling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seypat

No reason for discussion unless you are trolling.

If that's true, then almost every meaningful thread on BF is trolling. We could apply your standard and have nothing but "Who has the best price on Continental tires?" and "Is it legal in California to ride on the left side of the road?" and maybe the perennial "What's your favorite chain lube/sock length." Most of the issues aside from what you seem to consider common knowledge could be addressed with a Google search, so what's the point of having a discussion forum? Sometimes I want to know how other bike people feel about where, how, how often, how fast, and how far I like to ride, or to compare notes on their habits and opinions regarding these matters.

Broctoon

I set out to ride ten laps as fast as I can. I can do this if I'm the only one at the park. When I find a rabbit to chase, I find it easier to get a better time. It's motivation for me. If I knew that somehow the other guy would never see me or know I was there, the motivation would still be present. But of course, he will be aware of me when I pass, so I sometimes wonder if he's thinking "What's this jerk think he's doing?" I always hope he'll think "Oh, I'm not letting him get away with that," and give chase. We'd have us a little impromptu race.

caloso

Many riders, self included, will do workouts of repeated intervals at a certain effort, whether that’s measured by power or heart rate or just feel. So don’t be surprised if you see a rider go hard for, say 3 minutes, then sit up and soft pedal, then repeat. They’re not going to want to have an impromptu race.

yaw

Some people are doing polarised training with a lot of low to moderate heart rate training to realise endurance adaptations. Or they are on a recovery ride after an event that would have killed you. Putting in more effort would go against the purpose of the ride.

This aside, without knowing what people did that week, how many km they have in their legs that day, whether they have any intention to compare themselves to a random bozo, what is the point of worrying about who catches whom?

Whenever I considered myself a particularly strong rider there would come along a popular century gran fondo with lots of climbing to set me straight.

koala logs

It's perfectly alright as long you don't endanger / inconvenience the rider you're passing and you didn't struggle to pass that rider.

Because if you're struggling to pass another rider, chances are you will not be able to hold the pace and slow down and that rider you passed will now have to face some inconvenience passing you in return.

Naturally ofc, we have to power up a bit to pass anyone. But if the rider you're about to pass is fast and you're already struggling to close the gap, it's probably best not to pass and just stay behind them.

Personally, I'll make an exception to riders who pass me who look like they're about to pass out. I'd suck their life force from their pain and misery!

Bearhawker

I do this all the time - it's one of the only things that can get me to push just that little bit harder.

Since I ride a fatbike I don't normally catch them - so far I've managed to pass exactly 2 people, both of whom thought it was hilarious and then passed me and disappeared.

The last "victim" took me 3.5 km to catch & pass.

koala logs

Many riders don't take this situation kindly. I was joyriding with a friend's folding bike one time. Tiny wheels, flat bar, and had full fenders so it looked like a slow commuter bike but had aggressive road fit, incredibly light with fast tires so it felt great to cruise at 25 mph. I passed a roadie on a road bike who didn't take it kindly and tried to pass me without looking to his left and a car nearly hit him.

Another situation was me on a road bike with two pannier bags at the back. The bags are empty so I'm not that heavy! and I passed a couple of hardtail MTB riders on a climb. Two of them gave chase. One of them managed to pass me but had to stop almost passing out

It really ticks off people when they see someone passing them with a slow-looking bike.

Bearhawker

It would amuse me to no end if someone got upset about getting passed by me on a fatbike.

Don't want to get passed? go faster lol

I wonder... do these people who get upset when passed by a bicycle also get upset if passed by another car while driving?

noimagination

I don't race, so as long as the other cyclist is not endangering me I don't care what they do. They can cough out a lung passing me, then die and I pass them back, then they recover and we repeat. So what? If that floats their boat, no problem on my end.