restoring vintage touring frame... question
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 16
Bikes: Bianchi Volpe
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
restoring vintage touring frame... question
I'm planning on buying and building up an 80's Japanese touring frame. Something like a Nishiki Riviera, or Miyata 610.
I'd like to use newer components where I can, and I know that I may run into problems if I try to install a modern hub. The rear spacing of these frames is something like 124mm whereas the modern hubs I'm looking at are around 136mm. I'd be fine with doing the cold setting (bending chainstays), but I'd like to explore other options as well.
What do you think about using a new Suntour GPX 7 spd 126mm OLN (36 hole) hub? I don't know what type of bike this hub is meant for. Would it work for loaded touring? Here's more info on the hub.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product.a...S¤cy=USD
Also, if anyone has any further advice about other problems I might run into trying to install newer components on a vintage frame, please let me know.
I'd like to use newer components where I can, and I know that I may run into problems if I try to install a modern hub. The rear spacing of these frames is something like 124mm whereas the modern hubs I'm looking at are around 136mm. I'd be fine with doing the cold setting (bending chainstays), but I'd like to explore other options as well.
What do you think about using a new Suntour GPX 7 spd 126mm OLN (36 hole) hub? I don't know what type of bike this hub is meant for. Would it work for loaded touring? Here's more info on the hub.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product.a...S¤cy=USD
Also, if anyone has any further advice about other problems I might run into trying to install newer components on a vintage frame, please let me know.
#2
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,355
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6215 Post(s)
Liked 4,213 Times
in
2,362 Posts
I'm planning on buying and building up an 80's Japanese touring frame. Something like a Nishiki Riviera, or Miyata 610.
I'd like to use newer components where I can, and I know that I may run into problems if I try to install a modern hub. The rear spacing of these frames is something like 124mm whereas the modern hubs I'm looking at are around 136mm. I'd be fine with doing the cold setting (bending chainstays), but I'd like to explore other options as well.
What do you think about using a new Suntour GPX 7 spd 126mm OLN (36 hole) hub? I don't know what type of bike this hub is meant for. Would it work for loaded touring? Here's more info on the hub.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product.a...S¤cy=USD
Also, if anyone has any further advice about other problems I might run into trying to install newer components on a vintage frame, please let me know.
I'd like to use newer components where I can, and I know that I may run into problems if I try to install a modern hub. The rear spacing of these frames is something like 124mm whereas the modern hubs I'm looking at are around 136mm. I'd be fine with doing the cold setting (bending chainstays), but I'd like to explore other options as well.
What do you think about using a new Suntour GPX 7 spd 126mm OLN (36 hole) hub? I don't know what type of bike this hub is meant for. Would it work for loaded touring? Here's more info on the hub.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product.a...S¤cy=USD
Also, if anyone has any further advice about other problems I might run into trying to install newer components on a vintage frame, please let me know.
Go with a 36 hole Shimano 105 hub. It's easy to spread the rear triangle from 126 to 130. 8 or 9 spd cassette will work fine.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
If you want to avoid coldsetting, I'd recommend using a 126mm rear freewheel hub. You can get nice new IRD freewheels with a 32t large cog in 6 or 7 speed -- pair that with some indexed DT shifters on Rivendell barend shifter pods and you've got yerself a nice setup. This is exactly what I'm going to do with my recently-acquired Specialized Expedition. Some will say that cassettes are less prone to failure than freewheels, and they may be right, but I believe the odds of either style failing are very low and wouldn't hesitate to do self-supported long-distance touring on the setup I just described.
Otherwise, just get a new rear hub and coldset the frame.
Otherwise, just get a new rear hub and coldset the frame.
#4
www.Click-Stand.com
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Aberdeen, WA
Posts: 374
Bikes: Owner built touring & tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I cold set my frame from 135 to 145. I thought that moving each side 5mm would be no problem. It was a tremendous struggle. At one point the braze on the chainstay bridge broke with a big bang. Some fun. I also managed to put a slight, but stylish kink in the seat stays. I guess my point is, few things are as simple as they sound.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I'm not telling, na-na-boo-boo
Posts: 95
Bikes: 1985 Univega viva Touring, 1995 Treck Y22, and a 2003 Comfort bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Well, I've restored two bicycles to riding condition. My current one is a 1985 Univega viva Touring.
Some thoughts that I have about the whole process:
1) If you doubt it or think it might need replaced, replace it, especially wheels.
2) When replacing parts, only go for things that are still in production or will remain in production for some time. When I had to get a new freewheel for my Vega, I spent about two months trying to find a NOS (New Old Stock) 14-34 Suntour freewheel...That didn't happen.
3) Avoid Cold setting the frame. As the last poster shows, cold setting can potentially make the frame unrideable. If it must be cold set, I advise letting a pro mechanic with frame alignment tools do it. Also, some frames can't have it done to them period, which is another reason to let a pro mechanic look at the frame. My Vega has lugged chainstays, and all my research shows that Lugged frames can't be cold set without damaging the lug. Also, keep the change small, 5-6 mm appears to be the limit for most required cold settings.
Good luck,
flyingcadet
Some thoughts that I have about the whole process:
1) If you doubt it or think it might need replaced, replace it, especially wheels.
2) When replacing parts, only go for things that are still in production or will remain in production for some time. When I had to get a new freewheel for my Vega, I spent about two months trying to find a NOS (New Old Stock) 14-34 Suntour freewheel...That didn't happen.
3) Avoid Cold setting the frame. As the last poster shows, cold setting can potentially make the frame unrideable. If it must be cold set, I advise letting a pro mechanic with frame alignment tools do it. Also, some frames can't have it done to them period, which is another reason to let a pro mechanic look at the frame. My Vega has lugged chainstays, and all my research shows that Lugged frames can't be cold set without damaging the lug. Also, keep the change small, 5-6 mm appears to be the limit for most required cold settings.
Good luck,
flyingcadet
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
2) When replacing parts, only go for things that are still in production or will remain in production for some time. When I had to get a new freewheel for my Vega, I spent about two months trying to find a NOS (New Old Stock) 14-34 Suntour freewheel...That didn't happen.
3) Avoid Cold setting the frame. As the last poster shows, cold setting can potentially make the frame unrideable. If it must be cold set, I advise letting a pro mechanic with frame alignment tools do it. Also, some frames can't have it done to them period, which is another reason to let a pro mechanic look at the frame. My Vega has lugged chainstays, and all my research shows that Lugged frames can't be cold set without damaging the lug. Also, keep the change small, 5-6 mm appears to be the limit for most required cold settings.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
Here are some pics of my 1985 Nishiki Continental, I restored it completely this winter.
I used a 7 speed 126mm Suntour free wheel and 105 hubs and Mavic T221 rims.
Works very nicely. But these are all period parts and they work very well.
There was nothing wrong with these parts back then and really all that is missing is some in between gears that I don't really notice.
Good luck with your resto!
I used a 7 speed 126mm Suntour free wheel and 105 hubs and Mavic T221 rims.
Works very nicely. But these are all period parts and they work very well.
There was nothing wrong with these parts back then and really all that is missing is some in between gears that I don't really notice.
Good luck with your resto!
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
I have a Miyata 1000 that I had spread from 126 to 130 and it now has a new Shimano cassette. I still use the old Suntour derailleur, and it shifts about a billion times better than the old freewheel. No indexing, but smooth shifting with Silver barcons is pretty great.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I'm not telling, na-na-boo-boo
Posts: 95
Bikes: 1985 Univega viva Touring, 1995 Treck Y22, and a 2003 Comfort bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
As I'm not sure I made it clear in my last post, the IRD freewheels w/a 32t large cog are still in production and are available from reputable online retailers like Rivendell and Harris Cyclery. However, your point about the search for NOS parts is well taken, especially if you're not somebody for whom the thrill of the chase makes it worthwhile. I know I'm not.
Do you mean the chainstays are brazed into a bottom bracket lug? If this is what you're talking about, you've received some misinformation (and my apologies if you mean something else that I don't understand). I've coldset a lugged frame from 126mm to 130mm with no problems, and many other posters on the Classic & Vintage board have done the same, as well as going from 126mm to 135mm in some cases. I'd agree with you about the frame alignment tools. I'm no pro mechanic, but I did it at my local bike coop and used their alignment tools and they were very handy. At the very least I'd recommend a set of candlesticks to make sure the dropouts are parallel.
flyingcadet
#10
Leather and Canvas Fetish
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I was thinking at first of going with a 135mm "mountain bike" hub--mainly because those wheelsets are so plentiful and cheap--but didn't want to go through the hassle of cold setting. If you're going to buy a pre-built wheelset with 105/Ultegra and 36 spoke touring rims like Mavic 719's...they're available if you look around a bit.
FWIW, if you go with a 7 speed casssete instead of an 8/9 speed, you'll need a small spacer.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
This is true in many cases, but not always. It'd be worth your time to do some internet research about any bike you're thinking about buying. The Classic & Vintage board is a great place to ask that question, as many of the members have restored/upgraded vintage tourers and may be able to save you the frustration of being 1mm short of being able to brake w/700c wheels.
#12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 16
Bikes: Bianchi Volpe
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thanks for all of the input -- it's been really helpful.
The frame I'll be using is a Nishiki Riviera GT.
Here's another question. I've never installed a bottom bracket before, and I don't know what size/type my frame will take. Am I likely to run into any compatability problems installing a modern BB? I was thinking something like a Shimano UN53.
What do you guys think?
The frame I'll be using is a Nishiki Riviera GT.
Here's another question. I've never installed a bottom bracket before, and I don't know what size/type my frame will take. Am I likely to run into any compatability problems installing a modern BB? I was thinking something like a Shimano UN53.
What do you guys think?
#13
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,355
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6215 Post(s)
Liked 4,213 Times
in
2,362 Posts
Well, I've restored two bicycles to riding condition. My current one is a 1985 Univega viva Touring.
Some thoughts that I have about the whole process:
1) If you doubt it or think it might need replaced, replace it, especially wheels.
2) When replacing parts, only go for things that are still in production or will remain in production for some time. When I had to get a new freewheel for my Vega, I spent about two months trying to find a NOS (New Old Stock) 14-34 Suntour freewheel...That didn't happen.
3) Avoid Cold setting the frame. As the last poster shows, cold setting can potentially make the frame unrideable. If it must be cold set, I advise letting a pro mechanic with frame alignment tools do it. Also, some frames can't have it done to them period, which is another reason to let a pro mechanic look at the frame. My Vega has lugged chainstays, and all my research shows that Lugged frames can't be cold set without damaging the lug. Also, keep the change small, 5-6 mm appears to be the limit for most required cold settings.
Good luck,
flyingcadet
Some thoughts that I have about the whole process:
1) If you doubt it or think it might need replaced, replace it, especially wheels.
2) When replacing parts, only go for things that are still in production or will remain in production for some time. When I had to get a new freewheel for my Vega, I spent about two months trying to find a NOS (New Old Stock) 14-34 Suntour freewheel...That didn't happen.
3) Avoid Cold setting the frame. As the last poster shows, cold setting can potentially make the frame unrideable. If it must be cold set, I advise letting a pro mechanic with frame alignment tools do it. Also, some frames can't have it done to them period, which is another reason to let a pro mechanic look at the frame. My Vega has lugged chainstays, and all my research shows that Lugged frames can't be cold set without damaging the lug. Also, keep the change small, 5-6 mm appears to be the limit for most required cold settings.
Good luck,
flyingcadet
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 881
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I restored a 1983 miyata 610. Here's my thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...&highlight=610
It ended up working out fine, but I have to say BEWARE of hidden costs. Really only do this if you badly want to have the vintage vibe, but not if you want to save money. With the cost of a new surly LHT being what it is now, it's hard to justify buying anything else.
FYI - I ended up selling my miyata and buying a used 2007 cannondale t2000 for not much more than the cost of restoring the 610. I still sometimes miss the 610, truth be told. I'm a tall guy and I liked the shorter top tube of the vintage bikes for all-day comfort.
It ended up working out fine, but I have to say BEWARE of hidden costs. Really only do this if you badly want to have the vintage vibe, but not if you want to save money. With the cost of a new surly LHT being what it is now, it's hard to justify buying anything else.
FYI - I ended up selling my miyata and buying a used 2007 cannondale t2000 for not much more than the cost of restoring the 610. I still sometimes miss the 610, truth be told. I'm a tall guy and I liked the shorter top tube of the vintage bikes for all-day comfort.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I do agree that cold setting from 126 to 130 is not a requirement in general. But there can be some problems. One of my bikes would only spread the one side, causing the wheel to be off centered. Your drop outs won't be parallel . This is not a problem going from 126 to 130, because the angle is not that great. You are not likely to break a hub. But, with the extra demands due to touring, I would cold set the stays and have the frame aligned.