michaelm101

Ok. I get it, 1) it's basically 2 bikes, and 2) there's not a big market - and all the old stock finds its way here.

But, why do most of the tandems have that big, heavy cross bar that runs the length of the bike?

I found one model, the Raleigh Cadent, that doesn't have this and just looks like a good design - just a longer bike made for two...

--The top photo is my 1st tandem. I haven't weighed it, but feels like around 90-100 lbs. The one below it is the model I spoke of, and it lacks the 25 pound crossbar.

cyccommute 

First, the tube is called the lateral tube. Even in steel…your tandem looks like it is a 2002 with a steel frame…the lateral tube isn’t going to weigh 25 lbs. From what I can find on line, the bike weighs 45 lb and you do have a lot of extras on the bike. It also has some fairly low end components which drive the weight up some

The Cadent will weigh somewhat less (can really find any numbers) but the lack of the lateral tube really isn’t going to have that much of an effect on weight. It will have a dramatic effect on the ride…and not in a good way. That lateral tube provide stiffness that tandems lack because of the very long wheel base. I have direct experience with this from two tandems that I currently own (one is on loan). I have a Burley Samba which is a slightly oversized tube steel frame without the lateral tube



And a Cannondale Tandem which is an aluminum bike with the lateral tube.



The Cannondale is the lighter of the two bikes by a several pounds. It’s also the nicer ride. The Burley is way too flexible with two adults on it. It handles poorly because the frame can twist and flex. I wouldn’t take it down any kind of hill at a high speed. The Cannondale doesn’t twist and is more confident at just about everything.

The Cadent would probably ride more like the Burley because of the aluminum frame which is more flexible than steel and the lack of the lateral tube. Look for something like the Cannondale if you want something that is lighter and stiff enough for two adults.

michaelm101

Thank you. Very good information here.. Just as an FYI, I'm 6'0 155lbs, and the current stoker is 5'4 95lbs. Would the "non lateral tube" design suffice?

scycheng

It depends on tube diameter and how good your stoker is. Mine stoker is very good at not wiggling around.

When we had our touring tandem built, I discussed whether we need a full length lateral with our builder because each extra S&S coupler is mucho $$. Most of the twisting force is from the stoker and touring load on the rear. He built our tandem with a "partial" lateral only for the rear open area (not the rear triangle but the frame piece between the captain and stoker).

In practice, for us doing credit card touring, it works fine and saves us the cost of a tandem-sized coupler.

cyccommute 

Your combined weight is still higher than for a single bike and is now on a bike that is nearly twice as long. There are a lot of factors to consider but I would suspect that the Cadent would be more flexible than your current tandem. It would be best to ride it before deciding.

Looking at Craigslist for your general location, there seems to be a large selection of tandems available that are of a higher quality than the Raleighs at prices that seem quite good. It might be worth doing some research and riding before settling on something just yet.

Darth Lefty 

As ever, cheaper tandems like any cheaper bikes are made of cheaper materials, which usually means worse quality of steel. Contrary to bike marketing material, more steel is stiffer, but it's so heavy. They also have really heavy components like any cheap bike. They may have a really stiff steel fork of the cheapest steel, steel handlebars for both riders, steel hubs, oversize quill stem, etc etc. If you have ever picked up a kids bike and wondered "where did they even put it all to make it this heavy," just imagine that at tandem scale.

The Burley is made of 4130 chromoly and durable, not light components. I have a different year Samba with the extra tube and with two overweight adults it's a noodle. And it's heavy enough it shouldn't be a noodle. Would not get another steel tandem when aluminum exists.

If you look at newer tandems with no cross tube like Co Motion, the tubes are thin wall but huge diameter for stiffness, even more so than the old Cannondale version. They also often have compact style frames which are stiffer just by being smaller.

TobyGadd

Several brands, including Co-Motion, Land Shark, and DaVinci (just to name a few) make tandems without lateral tubes--so you have more choices than that Raleigh.

As for your claim of an extra 25 pounds, I don't know that lateral tubes add all that much weight compared to those bikes without them. The purpose of the lateral tube is to enhance rigidity, so a bike without one would be either "noodley" or require more material to reduce flex.

Tandems are generally heavier than expected for a number of reasons. For example, wheels are heavier because they need to carry twice the weight--with the rear wheel needing to withstand twice the power--compared to a single bike. Not only does a tandem frame need to support twice the eight, but it also needs to carry that weight over a wider span, requiring more material. The additional "heavy" things like a second seat post, crankset, handlebars, stem, etc., add up quickly.

It is possible, of course, to build a very light tandem, especially for a light team. Just like with any bike, replacing all of the heavy bits with carbon fiber equivalents should bring the weight down quickly. Or just go buy one of these: Macchiato - Co-Motion Cycles

Leisesturm

Our 2017 Trek T900 has no lateral tube. I can feel the frame flex only when pulling an overloaded single wheel trailer. It's plenty stiff enough. With the right wheelset and a bar swap it would make a great gravel tandem. Our go faster longer tandem is the pre-cursor to the Cadent linked earlier. In 2004 the Raleigh Coupe was a flat-bar 700c roadbike. 2" diam aluminum downtube and boomtube. STIFF. When I converted her to drops in 2005, 9sp brifters were $300. Not happening. So I got a special collar for oversize tubing so I could run downtube shifters. Probably the only late model tandem so equipped in the country. At informal tandem rides everyone wants to lift 'Black Beauty' and she is right down there with the Co-Motions and Cannondales despite costing only 1/4 the price. Being 6'0" and only 155lb.(?) might be why a 50lb bike seems to weigh 100lb to the o.p.. At 5'10" I looked and felt scrawny at 165lb graduating High School. 50 years later I am 195 and it doesn't really look out of place.

sch

At 250# the MichaelM team is really light, when I stoked on our Macchiatto, an aluminum frame without lateral we were ~360# team
and because the frame was well engineered with oversized 7000 series tubing heat treated after welding, it was quite stiff
and handled well up to the max of 59 mph we achieved once on glorious straight downhill. To MichaelM I would say the
most important is getting a frame that fits you both, not always easy with a 6' captain and 64" stoker. Inexpensive tandems
should have laterals. Hard to find a steel tandem under 35-38# and most will be north of 40#, aluminum ones will run several # lighter, with enough
$$ thrown at them about 8-10# lighter, but these days such run well above $10k new. Our first tandem was steel weighing #45 or so
and the Macchiatto was 29#

Carbonfiberboy 

Our tandem, a 2003 steel CoMotion Speedster, weighs 36 lbs. This is less than 2 steel bikes of that era. A couple who rides with us have a very light Calfee carbon bike, 25 lbs. Both bikes are quite stiff and handle very well. Friends who ride with us say they can't see the frame twist when we are climbing out of the saddle. The lateral and diagonal tubes both make the frame stiffer. We are a 285 lb. team. We also descend quickly when we want to, hit over 60 on a long pass descent, no problem. We rode RAMROD on this bike when our team age was 135, 154 miles and 9500'. It's a great bike.

Leisesturm

Those mudguards though ... you might have hit 65 with standard ones <running, ducking>

merlinextraligh

Light, durable, cheap. Pick two.

Tandems do not have to be heavy, but like most everything in bikes, the lighter you go the more expensive it gets.

Our Co-Motion Robusta weighed 27 pounds.



At about double the price, our Calfee Dragonfly weighs 24 pounds

merlinextraligh

As for the stiffness of tandems with and without lateral tubes it all depends on the design and materials of the bike.

the aluminum Robusta in the pic above was not particularly stiff, to the point people behind us would notice how much the frame flexed in a sprint.

This steel Co-Motion Java without a lateral tube was stiffer. ( although substantially heavier.


and our lateral less Dragonfly, pictured above, made with oversized carbon tubes, is dramatically stiffer, and lighter than either of the other two.

LV2TNDM

The two bikes you reference are terrible examples. You've picked probably the lowest end tandem on the market. Why would you expect them to NOT weight a ton?

A tandem must sustain the weight, momentum, and pedaling of two riders. To make is safe enough to be sold to the average consumer, they simply HAVE to add material to the thing to make it meet safety standards. And even then, these are marginal at best.

Once you go up the quality ladder, this issue still applies - and in some ways, even more. Because higher-end bikes will be ridden harder and faster and longer, oftentimes with touring baggage attached. So the bike has to handle even more load, speed & stress. It is therefore far more expensive, especially considering the total lack of "economies of scale" the tandem segment experiences. However, the higher costs of the performance increases are totally worthwhile.

Three fundamental issues with tandems: beefier frame, more stout wheels, and oftentimes a third - and very heavy - drum brake. The very heavy Arai drum brake was always considered a crucial requirement for loaded tandems on long descents. Heavy but worth it. Life saving in some cases.

That said, and as others have mentioned, light tandems certainly exist. But they cost more than many small cars! Today's carbon fiber fabrication as it applies to bicycles, and specifically tandems, has proven a total winner on the strength-to-weight ratio basis.

"Light, strong, cheap, pick two!" applies here just so perfectly. If you're considering new tandems under $2k MSRP, you're getting heavy, heavy, HEAVY!

michaelm101

I get it. Thanks. When you have a stoker who looks forward to riding around the block, money is better spent elsewhere....

merlinextraligh

Something like a used Trek 2000 might be a good choice, light enough and capable enough that you won’t hate riding it, compared to your Synapse, and likely can be had for not too much more than the Raleigh new.

RoulezTandem

"But, why do most of the tandems have that big, heavy cross bar that runs the length of the bike?"...

Our custom built steel frame does not. Modeled after a beachcomber to permit straddle mount by both parties.
Weight wise, it's a tank. We wanted to be sure the coupled frame would hold up to all stresses, including dropping off curbs and bouncing over trail rocks while very heavily loaded.

Bare frame remarkably came in around 26 pounds including the four couplers.
Total bike about 83# with mid drive motor and battery, Rohloff rear hub, 26" heavy rims.
Loaded with gear can be close to 100 pounds, with tools and gear.

hph

Geez, your combined weight is the same as what I weigh normally. I'm 6'8", but it was just funny to me realizing that. On your question, I would think the affirmative. Considering that a 500# rider weight isn't out of the question for any tandem, you're at half that.