Juan Foote

You don't?

Yes, any time I look at any type of car/moto/bike I always check essentials like fluids, tires, brakes, and so forth. You pull off in a car with no oil and blow the motor on your test drive is an expensive substitute for taking a few seconds to pop the hood and check the dip stick. I typically check and smell oil, trans fluid, dip a finger in the coolant where possible...ESPECIALLY when dealing with CL and/or bay sellers.
I do (indeed) kick the tires.

Juan Foote

Sure it is. An assumption was made that the bike worked correctly and during the course of this assumption damage was done to the bike while the OP was riding it.
Obviously, it is a bit of a muddy situation in certain respects and could readily have turned into cops, court, and so forth.

It was good that OP knew he liked the bike and in spite of the issue was something they wanted at asking. Never assume, check.

soyabean

I hunt for lowball bikes, so owners don't do any of the above. You'd be surprised how many folks don't even own any kind of air pump.

If I see the wheels are true-ish, no play in the bottom bracket, seatpost budges, rear-derailleur not bent, that's enough of a green light for me and pay them for the bike and hastily throw it on my platform carrier.

The only time I would test drive a bike is if I feel that it would expose a defect that wasn't advertise, which gives me grounds to lowball more.

Koyote

I'm not talking about what YOU do; I'm talking about responsibility.

If any vehicle - car, bike, whatever - is advertised as 'for sale,' and a test drive or ride is allowed, then it's the seller's responsibility to ensure that the vehicle is in running order. Otherwise, what is the point of a test drive or ride, if the prospective buyer will be held responsible for any defects? Think about it.

I mean, seriously, answer this: if you responded to a used car ad, showed up, asked to take a test drive, and during the test drive the motor blew because there was no oil in it...YOU would take financial responsibility? If you claim "yes," I'm calling BS.

njkayaker

You and others took the "easy way out" of the discussion and talked about the "you broke it, you bought" it nonsense as if the seller can never really be at fault.

No one was asking about the case where somebody "crashed" or "dropped" the bike (situations where the buyer is more clearly responsible for the damage). But that's the question the "you broke it, you bought" chorus is providing "answers" to.

It's "obvious" and you and others ignored actually addressing the situation.

You always checked but you managed to get screwed on your last car purchase anyway. The point is that people (even you) can't check everything.

Juan Foote

I can only assume that the state you live in doesn't do "AS-IS" private sales?

Here in GA if you buy anything used, unless it is specifically stated concerning certain aspect of the sale it is as-is meaning that if you didn't take it to a mechanic, or do a through check and it blows up the second you sign the papers, it's still yours. By and large there is no responsibility to be held to in many cases. The only aspect that gets around this is if you can prove they purposefully hid something, such things like sellling a car as good, passed emissions and they removed the CEL bulb and similar. Even at that, proving it can be more costly than just eating it as a learning experience.

Velogoth

The seller didn't represent the bike as "recently tuned" or "ready to ride". This issue was preventable by both seller and buyer. I'm ok with taking responsibility for not checking before riding. I'm also learning to accept that this mistake is in the "fuzzy" zone of "partially my fault". Not doing a safety check would have been really stupid. Not catching something truly hidden, such as a crack in the bar under the tape, would be completely excusable. This is in the middle.

I'm glad I seem to have made the right choice with how to handle it. We are all guilty at times of not taking precautions that seem obvious in retrospect. I learned a lesson, and won't make the same mistake again.

Juan Foote

The bike didn't shift itself into the spokes.

OP didn't say, but did he specifically ASK if it shifted correctly during their intercourse? I mean, the sellers wife was there who didn't know anything, so at that point you start checking things for safety before the ride. It isn't a cop out, it's smart practice. The act of shifting through all the gears while on the ride and not being super cautious about it was done on the assumption that everything was all right when it wasn't. There are nuances, certainly, but in this case it would not have been any more 'right' of OP to hand the bike back "it's broken" and leave the seller with something that no longer functioned properly because of that assumption.

Juan Foote

And in this, you are 100% correct. My not knowing about that aspect of the purchase wasn't the sellers fault*, it was mine. They obviously have a different standard of morality/disclosure than many might. Personally wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I sold something that I wasn't totally sure I had disclosed everything I knew about it...but I don't sell used cars either.

I paid the tax for not knowing.

As an aside, the car is actually running pretty well now. It does use oil and have a CEL issue to deal with relating to the low pressure fuel pump, but it's a super fun weekend and go to town car. Glad we got it (or, something to be specific) cause right afterwards my trusty steed the Titan had had to be in the shop twice for issues related to age and miles. We would have paid well more than the car cost in rental otherwise, so it all happened for a reason in my mind anyway.

*actually, being fair, it likely WAS the sellers fault. I figure they probably knew but thought it best in the interest of their business model not to say and feign ignorance about it. It would still be sitting there, I suspect, had they. Used car salesmen aren't thought so highly of for loads of reasons including this.

njkayaker

Nothing defective is defective it it just sits there. If the limit screw wasn't set properly, that's not something the OP did.

Sure, he should have checked more carefully (I said that a while ago). That doesn't mean he "broke" it.

He needed to check things more carefully because that's really the only protection he has. Because, as we see here, the seller is going to scream "you broke it" for anything that goes awry.

There's no reason craiglist sellers can't be unscrupulous too.

Juan Foote

But he DID break it, and admitted so in the first post.

njkayaker

No, he didn't say he "broke it". Clearly, the failure occurred during his operation but, if he operated it appropriately, he didn't really "break it". If the limit screw isn't set properly, normal operation can throw the chain to the inside.

If you took a new television home and, when you turned it on, it released "magic smoke", did you "break it"?

Juan Foote

Clouding the issue on a completely different type of device and damage that you could not possibly tell yourself isn't making your point or position any stronger.

I will agree to disagree with you because this is completely pointless. The OP already did what he did and your and my opinion of it basically means ****.

njkayaker

You and others are equating whatever the OP did as "crashing" or "dropping" the device.

The bike didn't seem to be set-up properly for normal use. Sure the OP should have checked more carefully but the bad set-up isn't his fault.

CAT7RDR

OP avoided a contentious situation by purchasing what was likely a malfunctioning and not known to the seller "problem" bike.
Dropping a chain is not unheard of but blowing up a wheel is.
Purchasing the bike was a very civil thing to do, but I would have not faulted the OP if he walked away from the deal either.

What would Judge Wapner do?

soyabean

Judge Judy, for the win

Flip Flop Rider

how would you even set a bike up to mis-shift and break the spokes?..Not sure what I would have done, but you can sleep well

Velogoth

Edit, deleting my comment, I think I misinterpreted your question.

Koyote

Your response, above, presumes that the transaction has already taken place – and hence it has absolutely no bearing on the present situation, and does not in any way address the question I posed to you.

Juan Foote

Your question is a false presumptive. It isn't as if you can turn one screw, check alignment, and test while the back tire is off the ground in comparison to the inside of an engine that you cannot see. Even at that, I would suspect that if you were on a test drive with a salesman in the car and engine blew it would depend a lot on what you were doing at the time as it concerns your liability for said. Most car dealerships carry insurance for just such situations, or things like a crash during the test drive. Through a private seller, I would imagine it being a tremendous way to find yourself embroiled in a lawsuit unless they knew and opted not to pursue damages.

You can't just offer some made up situation that isn't the same and expect the answer to apply to all equally. Straw man isn't it called?

Koyote

This is a case of a bike malfunctioning on a test ride, before a transaction has taken place...And you offered a long post (#31, above) about laws pertaining to a buyer's responsibility AFTER making a purchase. And you're claiming that I'm the one offering "some made up situation"?

Yikes.

Juan Foote

Loi, you entered the whole made up "if it was a car" argument in your previous post and have yikes for my reply?

Come down out of your tower. Weather is fine down here.

urbanknight

That's the tricky part I referenced. It might come down to a matter of opinion of what's a "gentle" test drive. My point was just that if a seller said it's "as-is", I would be much more thorough with my inspection and delicate on the test ride. Not that anything that breaks during said test ride would be automatically my fault, but the seller might see it differently... and I have met some rather unreasonable people when it comes to things like that. I would have probably done the same thing the OP did, just to avoid an argument. Besides, I know how adjust that derailleur when I get home.

genejockey 

If the limit screw on the RD is set to allow it to travel too far inboard, you can toss the chain right into the spokes. I have two wheelsets for one of my bikes, one with a 6-speed freehub, and the other with a 6-speed freewheel. I have to remember to reset the limit screws when switching wheels because I HAVE put the chain into the spokes, fortunately never on the road, only on the workstand.

Koyote

Please tell me how the analogy differs from the situation described by the OP. I will paste in the essence below, to refresh your memory:

Edit: still waiting for an answer, Juan Foote .