Hyperglide cassette teeth wear
11-01-22, 12:03 AM
#1
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Hyperglide cassette teeth wear
I have just installed the second chain onto a previously replaced Shimano 8 speed cassette. I notice that in some of the gears ( middle ones ), I am getting an occasional light chain skip under load.
Both front chainwheels are good as in there is no visible hooking of the teeth.
As the hyperglide teeth are so asymmetrical, I cannot tell from their appearance if they are worn.
Does anyone know of a way to inspect hyperglide teeth to preclude fitting a new chain and then finding it skips ?
Edit : I just looked again at the cassette on the bike and realised that only some of the teeth are asymmetrical !
New chain skips lightly on this one-chain-old cassette.
Both front chainwheels are good as in there is no visible hooking of the teeth.
As the hyperglide teeth are so asymmetrical, I cannot tell from their appearance if they are worn.
Does anyone know of a way to inspect hyperglide teeth to preclude fitting a new chain and then finding it skips ?
Edit : I just looked again at the cassette on the bike and realised that only some of the teeth are asymmetrical !
New chain skips lightly on this one-chain-old cassette.
Last edited by redshift1; 11-01-22 at 12:10 AM.
11-01-22, 01:51 AM
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Time for a new cassette I believe. I had a similar issue with a freewheel. I couldn’t figure out why the chain was slipping, switched freewheels and all of my problems went away.
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11-01-22, 05:00 AM
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You can also use a Hyperglide (HG) cog checker tool. I have the German one (Rohloff). https://www.ebay.com/itm/40377747659...mis&media=COPY
Here is a link to the KMC one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/23395660731...mis&media=COPY
If you follow the directions they do work. If you go to the cog that is giving some skipping issues & test the teeth using the chain links then applying moderate torque using the lever, I believe a “pass” is where the last link can flip up freely. A “fail” would be if the last link won’t release or is sticking (I hope I don’t have this backwards).
Here is a link to the KMC one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/23395660731...mis&media=COPY
If you follow the directions they do work. If you go to the cog that is giving some skipping issues & test the teeth using the chain links then applying moderate torque using the lever, I believe a “pass” is where the last link can flip up freely. A “fail” would be if the last link won’t release or is sticking (I hope I don’t have this backwards).
Last edited by masi61; 11-01-22 at 05:12 AM.
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11-01-22, 09:17 AM
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I agree that the cassette teeth are well worn and not surprised that some skipping is starting w/ a new chain.
I've used the Rohloff tooth checker for quite a few years. It is less a go/no go gage and more a wear indicator type of tool. The "tell" is dependent on how its applied and used, one wants to keep all but that last link pressed onto the teeth while the lever is tugged. For larger sprockets (aprox 22T and bigger) this is harder to do (and IIRC the instructions mentions that this tool is for 21T and smaller). Unfortunately as is too often in a shop setting this tool has gone AWOL. We just ordered two of another brand's version and I expect much the same working limits and results. Soon I'll find out for real. Andy (who likes being able to use a tool to demonstrate what we see to customers).
I've used the Rohloff tooth checker for quite a few years. It is less a go/no go gage and more a wear indicator type of tool. The "tell" is dependent on how its applied and used, one wants to keep all but that last link pressed onto the teeth while the lever is tugged. For larger sprockets (aprox 22T and bigger) this is harder to do (and IIRC the instructions mentions that this tool is for 21T and smaller). Unfortunately as is too often in a shop setting this tool has gone AWOL. We just ordered two of another brand's version and I expect much the same working limits and results. Soon I'll find out for real. Andy (who likes being able to use a tool to demonstrate what we see to customers).
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11-01-22, 03:45 PM
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Consider that I'm a cheapskate that milks every possible mile out of my components, but I don't think it's necessarily time for a new cassette.
So here are things I'd want to consider before advising.
1- how "stretched" was the old chain?
2- what is "mild slip"?, how often, and by under load do you mean hill climbing, or normal extra load on grades or acceleration?
3- are you willing to live with it a bit longer (if you feel that it won't cause loss of control) to give the chain a chance to sett;e in?
Lastly slippage comes in two forms. Usually it starts where the chain is first engaging, causing the chain to climb up rather then settling between the teeth. More serious slippage allows you to rip the chain off the teeth under extreme load creating a potentially dangerous situation. I believe yours is of the first type and likely to resolve with a bit more wear. Sometimes it can be cured by increasing chain wrap using the B-screw.
As I said, I believe in making things work rather than simply replacing problematic parts, but it's your bike and your choice.
Lastly, prevention trumps repair, so going forward keep a closer eye on chain stretch and make a decision to either replace chains more often to protect the cassette, or ride both as a married set until they die.
So here are things I'd want to consider before advising.
1- how "stretched" was the old chain?
2- what is "mild slip"?, how often, and by under load do you mean hill climbing, or normal extra load on grades or acceleration?
3- are you willing to live with it a bit longer (if you feel that it won't cause loss of control) to give the chain a chance to sett;e in?
Lastly slippage comes in two forms. Usually it starts where the chain is first engaging, causing the chain to climb up rather then settling between the teeth. More serious slippage allows you to rip the chain off the teeth under extreme load creating a potentially dangerous situation. I believe yours is of the first type and likely to resolve with a bit more wear. Sometimes it can be cured by increasing chain wrap using the B-screw.
As I said, I believe in making things work rather than simply replacing problematic parts, but it's your bike and your choice.
Lastly, prevention trumps repair, so going forward keep a closer eye on chain stretch and make a decision to either replace chains more often to protect the cassette, or ride both as a married set until they die.
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FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
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FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
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11-02-22, 12:58 AM
#6
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Thread Starter
You can also use a Hyperglide (HG) cog checker tool. I have the German one (Rohloff). https://www.ebay.com/itm/40377747659...mis&media=COPY
If you follow the directions they do work. If you go to the cog that is giving some skipping issues & test the teeth using the chain links then applying moderate torque using the lever, I believe a “pass” is where the last link can flip up freely. A “fail” would be if the last link won’t release or is sticking (I hope I don’t have this backwards).
If you follow the directions they do work. If you go to the cog that is giving some skipping issues & test the teeth using the chain links then applying moderate torque using the lever, I believe a “pass” is where the last link can flip up freely. A “fail” would be if the last link won’t release or is sticking (I hope I don’t have this backwards).
I agree that the cassette teeth are well worn and not surprised that some skipping is starting w/ a new chain.
I've used the Rohloff tooth checker for quite a few years. It is less a go/no go gage and more a wear indicator type of tool. The "tell" is dependent on how its applied and used, one wants to keep all but that last link pressed onto the teeth while the lever is tugged. For larger sprockets (aprox 22T and bigger) this is harder to do (and IIRC the instructions mentions that this tool is for 21T and smaller). Unfortunately as is too often in a shop setting this tool has gone AWOL. We just ordered two of another brand's version and I expect much the same working limits and results. Soon I'll find out for real. Andy (who likes being able to use a tool to demonstrate what we see to customers).
I've used the Rohloff tooth checker for quite a few years. It is less a go/no go gage and more a wear indicator type of tool. The "tell" is dependent on how its applied and used, one wants to keep all but that last link pressed onto the teeth while the lever is tugged. For larger sprockets (aprox 22T and bigger) this is harder to do (and IIRC the instructions mentions that this tool is for 21T and smaller). Unfortunately as is too often in a shop setting this tool has gone AWOL. We just ordered two of another brand's version and I expect much the same working limits and results. Soon I'll find out for real. Andy (who likes being able to use a tool to demonstrate what we see to customers).
Consider that I'm a cheapskate that milks every possible mile out of my components, but I don't think it's necessarily time for a new cassette.
So here are things I'd want to consider before advising.
1- how "stretched" was the old chain?
2- what is "mild slip"?, how often, and by under load do you mean hill climbing, or normal extra load on grades or acceleration?
3- are you willing to live with it a bit longer (if you feel that it won't cause loss of control) to give the chain a chance to sett;e in?
Lastly slippage comes in two forms. Usually it starts where the chain is first engaging, causing the chain to climb up rather then settling between the teeth. More serious slippage allows you to rip the chain off the teeth under extreme load creating a potentially dangerous situation. I believe yours is of the first type and likely to resolve with a bit more wear. Sometimes it can be cured by increasing chain wrap using the B-screw.
As I said, I believe in making things work rather than simply replacing problematic parts, but it's your bike and your choice.
Lastly, prevention trumps repair, so going forward keep a closer eye on chain stretch and make a decision to either replace chains more often to protect the cassette, or ride both as a married set until they die.
So here are things I'd want to consider before advising.
1- how "stretched" was the old chain?
2- what is "mild slip"?, how often, and by under load do you mean hill climbing, or normal extra load on grades or acceleration?
3- are you willing to live with it a bit longer (if you feel that it won't cause loss of control) to give the chain a chance to sett;e in?
Lastly slippage comes in two forms. Usually it starts where the chain is first engaging, causing the chain to climb up rather then settling between the teeth. More serious slippage allows you to rip the chain off the teeth under extreme load creating a potentially dangerous situation. I believe yours is of the first type and likely to resolve with a bit more wear. Sometimes it can be cured by increasing chain wrap using the B-screw.
As I said, I believe in making things work rather than simply replacing problematic parts, but it's your bike and your choice.
Lastly, prevention trumps repair, so going forward keep a closer eye on chain stretch and make a decision to either replace chains more often to protect the cassette, or ride both as a married set until they die.
2) The slipping/skipping doesn't happen at all on hard climbs in low gear ( fortunately ), only happening under load in the middle two or three gears and then only a tooth or so at a time.
3) Yes I am happy to wait it out.
Fortunately eight speed cassettes are ( or were ) cheap and I have a supply of them. A little previous experience with this situation suggests you are absolutely right about the skipping and that the chain will settle to the sprockets and the skipping will stop. But next time round, I will replace the cassette and go back to looking after my drive-train !
Thank you to everyone for your helpful suggestions.
11-02-22, 09:35 AM
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That is the standard indicator of a worn cassette, but you might want to ride it for a couple of hundred miles. Things may bed in and the skipping might stop. I've had this happen several times and have been able to keep using the cassette with that chain. When that chain wears out, by then the cassette is well and truly worn out but I've gotten several thousand more miles out of it by being patient to see if the skipping goes away.
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