Mavic hub/wheel issue.
01-03-23, 10:56 PM
#1
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Mavic hub/wheel issue.
Hi Folks,I have a Mavic wheelset that I would like to use on my Dawes Galaxy. The hubs, labeled Paris-Gao-Dakar, appear to be model 501 with sealed bearings. They are laced to Mavic Open 4CD rims. The OLD for the rear is 130mm as measured and specified. The literature says that they can use either a 7 or 8 speed freewheel.
Here’s my problem. I had a Sachs-Maillard 13-26, 8 speed freewheel with a FY92 code on it. When I thread it on tightly, the flange on the axle is flush with outer face of the freewheel. Not enough clearance between the FW edge & the dropout. I’ve also tried a Sunrace 13-28, 8 speed. The flange sticks out about 1.5mm from the edge of that FW. Still, not enough clearance.
My question, is there a way to change the DS spacing on these hubs? I can re-center the wheel if needed.
The pictures are an attempt to show the problem.
Thanks & regards,
Van
PS: Does using a freewheel make this a C&V issue?
Here’s my problem. I had a Sachs-Maillard 13-26, 8 speed freewheel with a FY92 code on it. When I thread it on tightly, the flange on the axle is flush with outer face of the freewheel. Not enough clearance between the FW edge & the dropout. I’ve also tried a Sunrace 13-28, 8 speed. The flange sticks out about 1.5mm from the edge of that FW. Still, not enough clearance.
My question, is there a way to change the DS spacing on these hubs? I can re-center the wheel if needed.
The pictures are an attempt to show the problem.
Thanks & regards,
Van
PS: Does using a freewheel make this a C&V issue?
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01-03-23, 11:16 PM
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You very successfully cropped out the thing that matters most, namely the axle.
From what I see, it seems to be a conventional threaded axle, with spacers and a lockout.
If so, it's an easy matter of swapping about 4mm of spacers from the left to the right. The goal should be to establish the minimum clearance for the chain in high gear.
After resplacing the axle, you'll need to redish the wheel back to center.
FWIW - I suspect that the prior owner set it up for 7s. If so, there's the off chance that it was originally 8s, and wasn't relished, so m a ybe the stars will a lign for you.
From what I see, it seems to be a conventional threaded axle, with spacers and a lockout.
If so, it's an easy matter of swapping about 4mm of spacers from the left to the right. The goal should be to establish the minimum clearance for the chain in high gear.
After resplacing the axle, you'll need to redish the wheel back to center.
FWIW - I suspect that the prior owner set it up for 7s. If so, there's the off chance that it was originally 8s, and wasn't relished, so m a ybe the stars will a lign for you.
Last edited by FBinNY; 01-03-23 at 11:19 PM.
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01-03-23, 11:45 PM
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I'll bet there is the perfect (about) 3mm spacer on the left that you can move to the right.
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01-04-23, 07:24 PM
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Weird that people keep throwing this around or that around when I've posted this here probably a dozen times already...
https://www.mrrabbit.net/docs/freewhe...OLD_sizing.pdf
In this case, you need to measure from the freewheel thread stop to the outside of the locknut.
It has to be 40.5mm to accept an 8-speed freewheel.
=8-|
https://www.mrrabbit.net/docs/freewhe...OLD_sizing.pdf
In this case, you need to measure from the freewheel thread stop to the outside of the locknut.
It has to be 40.5mm to accept an 8-speed freewheel.
=8-|
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5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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01-04-23, 07:59 PM
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Weird that people keep throwing this around or that around when I've posted this here probably a dozen times already...
https://www.mrrabbit.net/docs/freewhe...OLD_sizing.pdf
In this case, you need to measure from the freewheel thread stop to the outside of the locknut.
It has to be 40.5mm to accept an 8-speed freewheel.
=8-|
https://www.mrrabbit.net/docs/freewhe...OLD_sizing.pdf
In this case, you need to measure from the freewheel thread stop to the outside of the locknut.
It has to be 40.5mm to accept an 8-speed freewheel.
=8-|
01-04-23, 11:03 PM
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Hello again,
Apologies for the in complete info & crappy pix.
These hubs do not have a threaded steel axle. The "axle" is a very thick walled 12mm aluminum tube. The ends are turned down to 10mm for the rear & 9mm for the front. The flanges are held in place with a small circlip which is difficult to see in the pictures. The center hole is 5mm to accommodate the skewer.
Although Mavic's data says that these will work with an 8 speed FW, the distance the thread stop & the flange is only 39mm. Thanks, @mrrabbit!
It doesn't appear that there is a way to alter the DS spacing. Maybe a narrower FW. Or, have 2mm machined of the thread stop.
Hope the pictures clarify things.
Thanks again,
Van
Apologies for the in complete info & crappy pix.
These hubs do not have a threaded steel axle. The "axle" is a very thick walled 12mm aluminum tube. The ends are turned down to 10mm for the rear & 9mm for the front. The flanges are held in place with a small circlip which is difficult to see in the pictures. The center hole is 5mm to accommodate the skewer.
Although Mavic's data says that these will work with an 8 speed FW, the distance the thread stop & the flange is only 39mm. Thanks, @mrrabbit!
It doesn't appear that there is a way to alter the DS spacing. Maybe a narrower FW. Or, have 2mm machined of the thread stop.
Hope the pictures clarify things.
Thanks again,
Van
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01-04-23, 11:39 PM
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What's the nut on the unthreaded axle for?
01-05-23, 08:00 AM
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@Senior Ryder 00 - Yes this is a C&V type question.
Looks like a 530 hub. Axle lengths are listed below, 126, 130, and 135. You may only have a 126.
I converted my Colnago from a 6 to a 7speed hub without any modification. Clearence was available. You must take the needed clearance for the chain to move from the smallest sprocket to the next one in terms of the stays. Not all frames will accommodate actual usage of increasing the number of sprockets even if the wheel set will mount on the frame. Example below.
6 speed block
P9161255 on Flickr
7 speed blolck
PA241420 on Flickr
With chain on lowest gear
PA121374 on Flickr
At the time, I considered looking for a longer Mavic axle to take it one more but hey, it is C&V and I doubt Mavic ever offered a longer axle as a spare part. Another thing to keep an eye out for.
P9151226 on Flickr
Mavic Hub description on Flickr
MavicManualPg1 on Flickr
MavicManualPg2 on Flickr
Excellent hubs!
Looks like a 530 hub. Axle lengths are listed below, 126, 130, and 135. You may only have a 126.
I converted my Colnago from a 6 to a 7speed hub without any modification. Clearence was available. You must take the needed clearance for the chain to move from the smallest sprocket to the next one in terms of the stays. Not all frames will accommodate actual usage of increasing the number of sprockets even if the wheel set will mount on the frame. Example below.
6 speed block
P9161255 on Flickr7 speed blolck
PA241420 on FlickrWith chain on lowest gear
PA121374 on FlickrAt the time, I considered looking for a longer Mavic axle to take it one more but hey, it is C&V and I doubt Mavic ever offered a longer axle as a spare part. Another thing to keep an eye out for.
P9151226 on FlickrMavic Hub description on FlickrMavicManualPg1 on FlickrMavicManualPg2 on FlickrExcellent hubs!
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Last edited by SJX426; 01-05-23 at 08:05 AM.
01-05-23, 08:03 AM
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@Senior Ryder 00 - Yes this is a C&V type question.
Is there a model number or nae on the hub label? I am curious as the hub looks like a variation of the 500 series hubs.
I converted my Colnago from a 6 to a 7speed hub without any modification. Clearence was available. You must take the needed clearance for the chain to move from the smallest sprocket to the next one in terms of the stays. Not all frames will accommodate actuall usage of increasing the number of sprockets even if the wheel set will mount on the frame. Example below.
6 speed block
P9161255 on Flickr
7 speed blolck
PA241420 on Flickr
With chain on lowest gear
PA121374 on Flickr
At the time, I considered looking for a longer Mavic axle to take it one more but hey, it is C&V and I doublt Mavic ever offered a longer "Axle." Maybe yours has one that would fit. But then I didn't want to spread the frame.
P9151226 on Flickr
Mavic Hub description on Flickr
MavicManualPg1 on Flickr
MavicManualPg2 on Flickr
Is there a model number or nae on the hub label? I am curious as the hub looks like a variation of the 500 series hubs.
I converted my Colnago from a 6 to a 7speed hub without any modification. Clearence was available. You must take the needed clearance for the chain to move from the smallest sprocket to the next one in terms of the stays. Not all frames will accommodate actuall usage of increasing the number of sprockets even if the wheel set will mount on the frame. Example below.
6 speed block
P9161255 on Flickr7 speed blolck
PA241420 on FlickrWith chain on lowest gear
PA121374 on FlickrAt the time, I considered looking for a longer Mavic axle to take it one more but hey, it is C&V and I doublt Mavic ever offered a longer "Axle." Maybe yours has one that would fit. But then I didn't want to spread the frame.
P9151226 on FlickrMavic Hub description on FlickrMavicManualPg1 on FlickrMavicManualPg2 on FlickrHowever, thank you for posting the hub instructions. In the lower right of the last page it says exactly what the OP needs to do to add spacers on the right side of his axle to get clearance for the 8 speed freewheel.
Last edited by Kontact; 01-05-23 at 08:10 AM.
01-05-23, 08:13 AM
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Mavic 530 Rear Hub 28H 130mm Freewheel | eBay
MAVIC Front & Rear 501 32 hole matching hub set L'Erocia, Vintage | eBay - 131mm axle length.
MAVIC Front & Rear 501 32 hole matching hub set L'Erocia, Vintage | eBay - 131mm axle length.
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Last edited by SJX426; 01-05-23 at 08:24 AM.
01-05-23, 10:07 PM
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Hi folks,
Thanks for the feedback. Now I have drawings & instructions that will, hopefully, help me solve this little problem.
Cheers,
Van
Thanks for the feedback. Now I have drawings & instructions that will, hopefully, help me solve this little problem.
Cheers,
Van
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01-05-23, 10:42 PM
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Looking at your photos, that hub has one washer installed. I don't think you need a perfect match to it - as long as the hole isn't too big and the outside won't touch the freewheel, anything will work. If you have to make something, I would start with a brass washer for reasonable strength and ease of drilling/filing.
01-05-23, 10:55 PM
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There was a bit of wiggle room to fine tune with 1 or 2mm spacers, but that was it.
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01-08-23, 10:24 PM
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Getting closer to a solution
Hi folks,
Finally got the time (& courage) to take apart my Mavic 530 hub. Although the axle does measure 130mm, there was only one 1mm spacer/washer on DS. I found another copper one in my washer stash, but will likely need more. A quick google search said that the copper ones are available at most auto parts stores. Too cold & wet for a bike ride today. Will try tomorrow & keep you posted.
Cheers,
Van
Finally got the time (& courage) to take apart my Mavic 530 hub. Although the axle does measure 130mm, there was only one 1mm spacer/washer on DS. I found another copper one in my washer stash, but will likely need more. A quick google search said that the copper ones are available at most auto parts stores. Too cold & wet for a bike ride today. Will try tomorrow & keep you posted.
Cheers,
Van
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01-09-23, 11:58 AM
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01-09-23, 07:57 PM
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I started this build with the wheels, which were spec’d as 8 speed, plus a set 8 speed STI bar ends & the S-M 8 speed FW. Also the frame rear spacing is 130mm. Why not experiment?
Cheers,
Cheers,
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01-09-23, 08:07 PM
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01-09-23, 09:10 PM
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01-09-23, 10:04 PM
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Well, if he can understand how to respace that funky axle, the axle is long enough to do so, the wheel is re-dished accordingly, the axle is strong enough to support the additional dish, and his old, 8-speed freewheel meets the needs for his intended method of cycling, fine.
There's a reason people don't use 8-speed freewheels. On the other hand, 6- and 7-speeds are very common.
There's a reason people don't use 8-speed freewheels. On the other hand, 6- and 7-speeds are very common.
01-09-23, 10:34 PM
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Well, if he can understand how to respace that funky axle, the axle is long enough to do so, the wheel is re-dished accordingly, the axle is strong enough to support the additional dish, and his old, 8-speed freewheel meets the needs for his intended method of cycling, fine.
There's a reason people don't use 8-speed freewheels. On the other hand, 6- and 7-speeds are very common.
There's a reason people don't use 8-speed freewheels. On the other hand, 6- and 7-speeds are very common.
01-09-23, 11:10 PM
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Why go to 8? Is that so much better than 7? Like the guitar amp that goes to 11?
01-10-23, 12:31 AM
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The axle is already 130. Putting a 7 speed freewheel on isn't going to change that.
01-10-23, 05:10 AM
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01-10-23, 07:11 AM
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01-11-23, 11:03 PM
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All is well that ends well!
Hi folks,
My trip to the auto parts store successfully solved the spacing problems. The designation for the washers is M12 for the ID of 12mm. they come in various materials, outside diameters and thicknesses. I got copper ones 2.5mm thick. The OD is a couple of mm larger than the stock one, but doesn’t cause a problem. They were $0.75 each. Other than dealing with the circlips, these are easier to work on than the early Suntour/Sunshine sealed bearing units.
The result was 3mm clearance between the outside edge of the S-M FW and the edge of the axle flange. I only had to re-center ~1mm. Easy enough. A couple of precautions; 1. Be very careful with the little circlips. 2. The stock washer needs to be next to the bearing to prevent binding. 3. The nut on the axle not only holds the NDS bearing in place, it also place tension on the bearings. Tighten cautiously.
When assembled, everything worked as designed on the work stand. Ultegra derailleurs, Shimano STI bar end shifters, SRAM chain and the Sachs-Maillard FW. Unfortunately, I didn’t get a test ride in due to the rain. I will try to get it on the road with the first clear spell.
Thanks for all the help.
Cheers,
Van
My trip to the auto parts store successfully solved the spacing problems. The designation for the washers is M12 for the ID of 12mm. they come in various materials, outside diameters and thicknesses. I got copper ones 2.5mm thick. The OD is a couple of mm larger than the stock one, but doesn’t cause a problem. They were $0.75 each. Other than dealing with the circlips, these are easier to work on than the early Suntour/Sunshine sealed bearing units.
The result was 3mm clearance between the outside edge of the S-M FW and the edge of the axle flange. I only had to re-center ~1mm. Easy enough. A couple of precautions; 1. Be very careful with the little circlips. 2. The stock washer needs to be next to the bearing to prevent binding. 3. The nut on the axle not only holds the NDS bearing in place, it also place tension on the bearings. Tighten cautiously.
When assembled, everything worked as designed on the work stand. Ultegra derailleurs, Shimano STI bar end shifters, SRAM chain and the Sachs-Maillard FW. Unfortunately, I didn’t get a test ride in due to the rain. I will try to get it on the road with the first clear spell.
Thanks for all the help.
Cheers,
Van
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