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Experimenting with drivetrain

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Experimenting with drivetrain

Old 01-10-23, 04:31 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy
It's amazing how "right" Suntour got it 50 years ago.
...the V-GT Luxe was THE dominant RD for 15 or so years- up until the M730 XT units....
AND it was/is so much prettier/classier than the fugly Deore stuff!
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Old 01-10-23, 05:31 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster
It indexed?
Yup.
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Old 01-10-23, 05:33 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by John E
Yup.
That is amazing.
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Old 01-10-23, 05:35 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc
Get rid of effect of cable stretch?
Probably. The only drawback of early SunTours is their long cable travel. I originally built the UO-8 for my wife, with Schwinn TwinStik shifters and a SunTour VGT rear derailleur. I had to grind down the right lever stop to secure adequate cable wrap to hit all 5 gears in back, leaving me no motion to spare.
When I have used SunTour derailleurs with early Campag. or plastic Simplex downtube levers, I have had to swing the lever through a wide arc to hit all of the gears.
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Old 01-10-23, 05:46 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by John E
...What really surprised one of my coworkers was that the old VGT I gave him worked well on his daughter's indexed Shimano 7-speed setup, better than the original Shimano she had destroyed in a crash.
I've used old Suntour derailers with Shimano indexed levers a couple of times, but there was a catch in that these pre-index Suntour (or shimano or even Campy) derailers feature a " Shimano Dura-Ace 74xx-type" actuation ratio.
So one should either use 74xx index levers with same # of cogs and clicks,
OR
...use any non-Dura-Ace Shimano indexed 7 or 8s lever with a regular-spaced 6s cogset to achieve proper indexing motion with any pre-index-era rear derailer.
OR
...use a Suntour (non-3xxx-series) 7s Accushift lever together with your pre-index derailer and any good index-compatible 7s cogset.

I recommend sticking with the wider standard 5/6-speed cog spacing when using older derailers that weren't made for indexing (though one might get decent shifting using 7s spacing if the cogs are ramped and in their proper sequence).

Never try to make an Allvit derailer index, because it's actuation ratio is unfortunately non-linear.

But even a Gran-Turismo rear derailer will index standard 6s spacing using 6s Dura-Ace 74xx levers (or using Shimano non-Dura-Ace 7/8s index levers), but shifting will be unresponsive unless one drills a new spring anchor hole or two to alter the A/B pivots spring tension balance (so as to bring the top pulley closer to the cogset).
The setup below is not being helped by the sheer length of the old, race-worn cabling up to the non-D-A Shimano 7s bar-end levers (DT levers would shift much better).

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Old 01-10-23, 09:31 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc
Get rid of effect of cable stretch?
Unless the cable stretches to the point that you'd have to re-attach the cable- otherwise, you just move the lever a little further... Maybe I just don't grasp the concept of the barrel adjuster in a friction setup.
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Old 01-10-23, 09:44 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex
AND it was/is so much prettier/classier than the fugly Deore stuff!
The old VX and other decoratively etched/pantographed parts have a much stronger "70s" aesthetic to them- and look totally anachronistic on a mid-80s or later bike.
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Old 01-10-23, 09:50 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by daverup
The Suntour Vx-GT RD works really well with the Racheting Power Shifters. I put those together on one of my wife's bikes and she really likes the combo.
Every Power Ratchet/SunTour anything combo I've tried worked super. Now I haven't gone higher than 7-speed so I don't know how well the relatively coarsely spaced ratchet teeth would do with the quick shifting Cyclone and narrow 9-speed or higher cassette. (The Superbe friction shifter with that combo is sweet.)
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Old 01-10-23, 10:54 PM
  #34  
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Great job with the experimenting. Interesting (and cool!) to hear about the Suntour indexing. I tried a Cyclone M II long cage on a 6-speed indexed system, and unfortunately it did not work, but digging into this stuff is where a lot of the fun of vintage bike ownership is at!
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Old 01-11-23, 06:18 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by John E
I am not surprised that this works well, since 14-34 was a very common Nishiki 5-speed freewheel during the 1970s, and the SunTour VGTs of the day handled it with aplomb.

What really surprised one of my coworkers was that the old VGT I gave him worked well on his daughter's indexed Shimano 7-speed setup, better than the original Shimano she had destroyed in a crash.
I've used old Suntour rear derailleurs with Shimano Index shifters. To make taking out cable seating/stretch easier I used a bolt to thread the rear of the derailleur to then accept a barrel adjuster. Or a person could by a proper tap and thread it.

A lot of people just love those old Suntour rear derailleurs as they work so well.

Cheers
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Old 01-11-23, 06:50 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster
That is amazing.
I've run a V Luxe short cage with a SunRace 13-25 and Shimano indexed shifters. Worked perfectly.

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Old 01-11-23, 08:03 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by masi61
Huret Duopar with its unique 2 stage pulley cage could handle a spread like this I believe. I got rid of my eco-duopar since that upper pulley squealed for lack of lube and I could find no way to service it.
The Duopar will actually shift to a 38T sprocket and completely handle a 50-42-31 triple and a 16-38 six-speed freewheel, even when cross chaining.



@52telecaster , great job on the gearing experiment. I get all tingly when we push the envelope on our gearing! It's one of the things I miss about living on a flat barrier island. Now I find myself building closely spaced gearing.
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Old 01-11-23, 08:30 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
The Duopar will actually shift to a 38T sprocket and completely handle a 50-42-31 triple and a 16-38 six-speed freewheel
That's interesting. I've been playing with mine lately and found it didn't really like a 36 - seemed like the upper jockey wheel was a bit too close. It worked but was noisy and fiddly. When I switched to a 12-32 9sp, the shifting improved dramatically and all was quiet. It looks like your rear wheel may be sitting farther forward in the dropouts than mine so maybe I'll fool around with that. Any other ideas? I suppose there could be a difference in the hangers as well?
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Old 01-11-23, 10:54 AM
  #39  
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pastorbobnlnh - wow, the duopar is even better than I thought!
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Old 01-12-23, 04:57 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
The Duopar will actually shift to a 38T sprocket and completely handle a 50-42-31 triple and a 16-38 six-speed freewheel, even when cross chaining.



@52telecaster , great job on the gearing experiment. I get all tingly when we push the envelope on our gearing! It's one of the things I miss about living on a flat barrier island. Now I find myself building closely spaced gearing.
I generally don't need them as wide as I make them but it never hurts to have the security when touring, and touring is my favorite thing to do on a bike. I have lately invested in some lighter camping gear so I can get by with just two panniers up front, a saddle bag and maybe some front platform stuff. Life's short and I enjoy solo touring.
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Old 01-14-23, 07:38 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster
It'll be a 2x where I have 26-44 in front. The 44 will be in position to use all 7 gears the 26 will be restricted to the 28 and 36.
That jump from 21 to 28 and a step down from the 44 to 26 up front will be a jump from 57GI to 25.3GI.
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