grumpus

... using different wheel sizes in the same frame.

phughes

There is one very big advantage, if you have the need, or desire. Most don't, but the option is there.

MikeM21

And just WHAT were you doing talking to my wife?!?!?!?!

(If you talk to her tomorrow tell her the evening is set aside for Zwift so she's on her own for dinner!)

Eric F 

Yep. Mullet setups (27.5 rear, 29 front) are not uncommon for MTBs. Some gravel bikes have additional tire clearance in the frame with 650b wheels, allowing for a beefier setup if the need is there. None of that is possible with rim brakes.

elcruxio

Oh I don't know. I'm probably quite a bit more qualified to adjust all types of brakes than you are. You'll whip out you "worked in a bikeshop card", but how many brake calipers have you actually taken apart? Rim or disc?

There's no magic in adjusting mechanical brakes. They just have limitations and follow physics. When trying to stop 400lbs going down a hill, a cable's gonna stretch. But I'll assume this'll all go over your head. There'll be another fallacy coming I'm sure.

alfaspider

just look at my record brakes..need to get new pads

BBB_Adrift

Sir - if that beauty is a 58cm/XL frame and you are worried that it will not be looked after properly once you are deceased, I'm prepared to selflessly propose my services to care for it. I wont even ask for funding.
I'm all heart, me!

;-)

PeteHski

Modulation is a fancy word for brake feel. How accurately and consistently you can control your braking power.

Schweinhund

From my perspective, rim brakes ARE disk brakes, different caliper and disk, same mode of action.
True disk brakes are more protected than rim brakes, and they cool better so less fade, and that is the only reason they are better as brakes.
My u-brake, and the cam brakes of the past were incredibly powerful.

Schweinhund

Since you just exposed your attitude, let me hit you back with one: you don't mknow who you are talking to so perhaps you should tone it down.
There are some old school hard cores here who know exactly what they are doing and have been for 50+ years.

There's no magic in adjusting ANY brakes. There is no alchemy involved either. it's just understanding what it does and how it does it.

smd4

Exactly. You don't know. Probably qualified? That's rich. But I'm going with a big NOT on this one.

I'm just glad I don't weigh 400 pounds. You should ride more.

elcruxio

That's not much to go by. But yes, definitely more qualified. How much experience do you have?

And just like that you crossed the line to offensive and inappropriate. Class act, but I don't think that at this point anyone here expected anything more.
You do a lot of assuming don't you?
But I don't actually weigh 400 pounds. But me, my touring bike, my gear (four panniers + two bags), trailer, one extra person and their gear was everything combined roughly 400 pounds.

elcruxio

Judging by this persons latest post I know pretty well who I'm talking to. And it's not pretty. Why do you hold said person in such high regard when they are so offensive?

In that we are at least in agreement.

smd4

Far more than you. I have ten years' experience as a professional mechanic. You?

Kapusta

I think there actually IS some extra skill and attention involved in setting up and keeping single-sided mech discs running optimally.

That’s why there are such varied opinions on their effectiveness.

Similar situation with canti brakes…. At least with the initial setup.

OTOH, most hydro disc, dual-sided mech disc, v-brake, and modern road rim calipers are pretty easy to get right.

tomato coupe

How is it that a 10-year professional mechanic has only experienced poorly adjusted disc brakes that "are basically an "ON/OFF" proposition"?

Koyote

Good question! Maybe assembling bikes at Walmart makes one a “professional mechanic”?

elcruxio

One thing I've learned in my professional life, it's that I don't go on internet forums flaunting my knowledge and stating things as absolute facts. Because if I were to be wrong in such setting as a professional, it'd be really embarrassing... Perhaps you should reflect on that.

The second thing I've learned is that you can have decades of experience and still be absolutely incomptetent. That nugget of wisdom just came to me out of the blue with no relation to this discussion whatsoever.......

cyccommute 

Got news for you buckaroo, people were doing downhill and enduro long before the advent of hub mounted disc brakes…and dual suspension for that matter. And before the advent of front suspension as well.. They were scary fast. Brakes aren’t the limiting factor on downhill or enduro.

Yes, I know there is some flex in the cables but that’s not a bad thing in my opinion. One of the problems I had with hydraulics was the lack of that flex. The brakes were on or off with nothing in between. With cables, that flex results in some fine control…modulation if you like…of the raw power.

I have spent far too much time hitting the ground after braking on ice to do something as dumb as try to do “maximal braking” on ice. That’s not a place were I even touch the front brake because I know that I will end up on the ground…again! Slipping, traction, slipping is completely unnecessary on ice. For the most part “maximal braking” is mostly unnecessary except in panic situations and even those are very rare.


Again, it's not about excessive force. It's about more or less effort. Only cantilevers require excessive force. But the less effort needed, the more accurate you can be (disclaimer, to a point. That point hasn't been reached yet though).

if we did a test of how much force at the lever is required for a certain amount of newtons of stopping power, hydro discs would win hands down. Too bad such a test is a bit difficult to conduct with a reasonable budget.[/QUOTE]

Yet again, I don’t find any relatively modern brake system requiring anything I would label excessive force nor do I find them “inaccurate” how ever you want to use that rather ill-defined term. Do you mean that you can stop closer to a certain point? Or that you can more accurately control speed? Neither of which I’ve found to be a problem with mechanical disc or mechanical rim brakes nor something I’ve found to be better with hydraulics. I can stop my bikes where I need to and I can control my speed where I need to.

As for force required, care to provide a source for you claims?


No, I didn’t stop reading. I’m having a go at you for making silly claims.

Now it’s my turn to claim you stopped reading. I don’t need…nor do most other cyclists need…maximal braking power in all situations. They don’t need maximal braking power in many situations. And, even in those situations where maximal braking is required, most any brake system is up to the task. You have even addressed the problem I have with your “half a finger” braking need when you said

That says to me that your brakes are rather touchy and you have to “think” about using them. For those rare occasions where you do need to use brakes in panic stops, having to stop and think about how to apply the brakes increases reaction time which isn’t optimal.

The trailer problem isn’t due to the brakes…at least not entirely. The problem is due to adding an unbraked mass to they system that lifts the front wheel and pushes the bike in direction that are difficult to anticipate. Trailers would be slightly better if they had their own brakes.

That’s a bet that you would lose. I’m solidly in the Clydesdale territory. When bikepacking (not road touring), I’m dragging (as opposed to pushing) over 140 kg with rider, bike, and gear. I hurtle down dirt road mountain passes from 12,000 feet (3600+ m) to 9500 feet (2900 m) over 5 miles or an average 9% grade. I use my brakes a lot on that kind of drop…in short bursts…but my arms weren’t particularly shot at the bottom. They are far more tired because of the jolting of the terrain than due to braking.

Again, the point is that they used the same language as is still used to describe hydraulics. It’s not something I experienced with the Avids nor with anything I’ve tested since. I don’t find hydraulics to be confidence inspiring…just the opposite…I have to think about braking and how to do it. Not something that I think about with mechanical disc or mechanical rim.

I regularly exceed 25mph on dirt downhills. On smoother dirt, I can exceed 35mph on a mountain bike…loaded or unloaded. My brakes are good enough in my mind to be up to the speed and aren’t the limiting factor in how fast I go.

cyccommute 

But nobody has ever experienced this kind of comment

tomato coupe

If any part of your braking effort goes into flexing cables (or any other part of the bike), that's a detriment to fine control, not an enhancement.

smd4

It's poor form to answer a question with a question. But not surprisng.

My dual-pivots are so good that I actually shudder to think what would happen if I actually replaced the stock Shimano pads with Kool Stops.

Kapusta

Im my experience, the biggest advantage of disc is the control of the power And I find Hydro better than mechanical in this regard.

I never realized how much of my attention was going into braking until I got a good set of hydros. Sort of like thinking it is silent until the hum that you were not aware of stops.

I still like good mechs, as I prefer the more frequent, predicable minor adjustments of mech to the less frequent, less predictable - and sometimes big - headaches of hydro. So I just run hydros on my FS MTB where every bit of control helps. For my fat bike and road/gravel bike… mechs are fine.

smd4

I was asked how much experience I had.

tomato coupe

I wasn't answering a question.